Abp Vigano: Has Pope Francis now ‘disavowed’ being Vicar of Christ?

[Michie]

The Pope now seems to declare himself ‘absolute monarch even with respect to Christ,’ according to the archbishop.

Abp Viganò: Has Pope Francis now ‘disavowed’ being Vicar of Christ?

 

[Michie]

I’m not sure I understand this. How is this theological barbarism???

 

[Dave G.]

Seems subtle to me but the article says it's not. Just on a personal opinion note, I kind of doubt the pope thinks he's monarch even to the point that he excludes Christ.

 

[Dave G.]

I’m not sure I understand this. How is this theological barbarism???

I gathered it's viewed as breaking the chain of apostolic succession. But I surely could be wrong.

 

[Michie]

I’ll see if @Davidnic can explain. I find it confusing.

 

[Lost4words]

To me, it just seems that the Pope is trying to be more humble. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Michie]

To me, it just seems that the Pope is trying to be more humble. Nothing wrong with that.

Well that was mentioned but why deny what you took on to be for the Church? Like I said, I’m confused by Vigano, Müller, and the Pope on this. I’m hoping @Davidnic can shed some light on this.

 

[Dave G.]

To me, it just seems that the Pope is trying to be more humble. Nothing wrong with that.

Hmmm, I like that !

 

[Davidnic]

It is odd. But the Vatican Yearbook is hardly the be-all and end-all of the addition or elimination of titles of the Pope. It is often used as showing what the Pope wants to stress. I think Viagano and Muller are overreacting a bit, and I would need to check the source on Muller. Lifesite is not known anymore (since their purchase a few years ago) for the most accurate reporting.

 

[Davidnic]

I have a guess why he did it, and it is to tone down primacy. I disagree with him doing it. But remember when Pope Benedict dropped Patriarch of the West to remove a possible hindrance to dialog with the Orthodox? It seems to me along the same lines.

I find it ill-advised but it is not disavowing anything.

 

[Michie]

It is odd. But the Vatican Yearbook is hardly the be-all and end-all of the addition or elimination of titles of the Pope. It is often used as showing what the Pope wants to stress. I think Viagano and Muller are overreacting a bit, and I would need to check the source on Muller. Lifesite is not known anymore (since their purchase a few years ago) for the most accurate reporting.

I’ve been searching. If you find anything, let me know. I thought it a bit of an overreaction as well. One omission in the yearbook does not mean the pope rejects the title and description of his role does it?

 

[Michie]

Cardinal Müller Accuses Francis of “Theological Dilettantism"

 

[Michie]

Pope drops traditional titles, including ‘Vicar of Christ’ | News Headlines

 

[Michie]

VIGANÒ: “VICAR OF CHRIST” IS PART OF “MUNUS PETRINUM”, NOT JUST A TITLE…

 

[Gnarwhal]

The Pope now seems to declare himself ‘absolute monarch even with respect to Christ,’ according to the archbishop.

Abp Viganò: Has Pope Francis now ‘disavowed’ being Vicar of Christ?

Funny coincidence, I just started listening to this R4R episode from November 22nd about Viganò's commentary on the Amazon Synod. Tim and Dave's thoughts are very astute on the whole situation—I wasn't aware how pachamama had sprung onto the secular scene concurrently with the synod, which is highly disturbing. Like the Viganò and the Gordon's both said though, Pope Francis/The Vatican overplayed their hand on this one.

If anyone's interested, here's the episode:

 

[Julian of Norwich]

I think it was an act of humility and recognition that, as all men, he is a sinner too. He did a somewhat similar thing on his election and has been (mostly) trying to get bishops to rule their own diocese. I also agree that it is also an attempt to forge a bond with the Orthodox. I'm not necessarily a fan of all he's done, but I agree on this and even wonder if there isn't some Vatican politics in all of this.

 

[Michie]

I think it was an act of humility and recognition that, as all men, he is a sinner too. He did a somewhat similar thing on his election and has been (mostly) trying to get bishops to rule their own diocese. I also agree that it is also an attempt to forge a bond with the Orthodox. I'm not necessarily a fan of all he's done, but I agree on this and even wonder if there isn't some Vatican politics in all of this.

I think there is ALWAYS politics unfortunately.

 

[Bob Crowley]

As a former Protestant turned Catholic, for whom at least one of the reasons was the divisions within Protestantism, it bemuses me to see top flight catholic figures picking arguments with the Pope.

As a lay Catholic, the buck pretty much stops at the Eucharist in the local church as far as I'm concerned. If the hierarchy want to have their bun fights, let them.

I get a bit cynical about Catholic infallibility at times. But maybe that's also partly due to my Australian tendency to be sceptical about authority in general.

As my old Presbyterian pastor used to say "One bunch of sinners is pretty much the same as the rest."

 

[Michie]

From National Catholic Register.
Cardinal: Moving ‘Vicar of Christ’ Title in Vatican Yearbook is ‘Theological Barba

 

[Hamlet7768]

It is odd. But the Vatican Yearbook is hardly the be-all and end-all of the addition or elimination of titles of the Pope. It is often used as showing what the Pope wants to stress. I think Viagano and Muller are overreacting a bit, and I would need to check the source on Muller. Lifesite is not known anymore (since their purchase a few years ago) for the most accurate reporting.

Who purchased them? Just curious. I haven't trusted LSN for a while and wasn't inclined to start, but I didn't know it could have been linked to someone buying the site. I know at some point it changed from being about the pro-life movement to being something like the cable news of Catholic media.