About the Holy Spirit

[Joined2krist]

John was to be filled and controlled by Him right from birth, before the resurrection.

 

[topher694]

The Holy Spirit doesn't control people.

 

[Joined2krist]

The Holy Spirit doesn't control people.

'For he will be great and distinguished in the sight of the Lord. And he must drink no wine nor strong drink, and he will be filled with and controlled by the Holy Spirit even in and from his mother's womb' Luke 1:15 (Amplified Bible)

 

[topher694]

'For he will be great and distinguished in the sight of the Lord. And he must drink no wine nor strong drink, and he will be filled with and controlled by the Holy Spirit even in and from his mother's womb' Luke 1:15 (Amplified Bible)

For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. (KJV)

For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb. (NKJV)

for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born. (NIV)

for he will be great in the eyes of the Lord. He must never touch wine or other alcoholic drinks. He will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even before his birth. (NLT)

He’ll drink neither wine nor beer. He’ll be filled with the Holy Spirit from the moment he leaves his mother’s womb. (Message)

Greek word "filled" = Pletho

1. to fill
2. to be fulfilled, to be filled

There is zero context for the word "controlled" it is a poor translation.

 

[splish- splash]

Would it be wrong to say that John's calling was special & unique? I wonder... I guess we all have different kinds of callings...

 

[Pavel Mosko]

John was to be filled and controlled by Him right from birth, before the resurrection.

Edit- OK I didn't know you were Catholic that makes sense....

 

[Joined2krist]

Would it be wrong to say that John's calling was special & unique? I wonder... I guess we all have different kinds of callings...

Would it be wrong to say that John's calling was special & unique? I wonder... I guess we all have different kinds of callings...

I guess so too. There are some things that might remain mysteries until the end of time. Elizabeth and Zachariah were also filled and controlled by the Holy Spirit after Mary's visit

 

[Joined2krist]

Edit- OK I didn't know you were Catholic that makes sense....

Do you have an opinion about the topic? it shouldn't matter if I'm Catholic or not. Peace be unto you

 

[topher694]

I guess so too. There are some things that might remain mysteries until the end of time. Elizabeth and Zachariah were also filled and controlled by the Holy Spirit after Mary's visit

They were not controlled by the Holy Spirit either.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Do you have an opinion about the topic? it shouldn't matter if I'm Catholic or not. Peace be unto you

I was just surprised because for some reason I had it in my head that your were Anglican, maybe it was the avatar that looks Elizabethan.

I can sort of see it based on him being the prophesied forerunner of Christ and western notions of Original Sin etc. that sometimes get waived when talking about various ideas and people like this. But of course, the problem is over stating things etc. I honestly don't know how to describe him other than repeat what is said in a Hagiography or Catechism, like the following entry.

John the Forerunner - OrthodoxWiki

 

[Scott Husted]

The least in the kingdom is greater than John ...

 

[Pavel Mosko]

The least in the kingdom is greater than John ...

That is only because we have a better covenant now than what John had at the exact time Christ said that. (John being in the last generation of the old covenant while living on earth).

I don't believe that is true now because there is some indication that believers of the OT were saved by Christ around the time of the Crucifixion/ Resurrection.

Harrowing of Hell - Wikipedia

 

[Scott Husted]

That is only because we have a better covenant now than what John had at the exact time Christ said that. (John being in the last generation of the old covenant while living on earth).

I don't believe that is true now because there is some indication that believers of the OT were saved by Christ around the time of the Crucifixion/ Resurrection.

Harrowing of Hell - Wikipedia

I don't believe that it was ever the case since Christ was crucified from the foundation of the earth ...

 

[Pavel Mosko]

I don't believe that it was ever the case since Christ was crucified from the foundation of the earth ...

Well its a free country and you got a right to your opinion.

I don't think it makes any sense. There are many other passages in reference in the Gospels where the Bible treats that event that has not yet happened in time. All the verse does is show that 1) Yes that this was part of God's plan aka Economy from the Beginning (before Creation) , and 2) show that Christ is "true God" / fully Divine aka not a created being like the ancient heretical groups like the Arians allege.

Furthermore there are other implications. Passages which speak about One Church / Ecclesia, One Body in Christ etc. And how folks from the Old Testament are in fact part of that.....


There is also something of genre to consider as well... as far as Apocalyptic works go (Being based more on theology, than chronology etc.).

It does show me another reason why Revelation was one of the last books to be received in the main NT canon. It's structure being unlike the other canonical books except the Gospel of John.

 

[Scott Husted]

Well its a free country and you got a right to your opinion.

I don't think it makes any sense. There are many other passages in reference in the Gospels where the Bible treats that event that has not yet happened in time. All the verse does is show that 1) Yes that this was part of God's plan aka Economy from the Beginning (before Creation) , and 2) show that Christ is "true God" / fully Divine aka not a created being like the ancient heretical groups like the Arians allege.

Furthermore there are other implications. Passages which speak about One Church / Ecclesia, One Body in Christ etc. And how folks from the Old Testament are in fact part of that.....


There is also something of genre to consider as well... as far as Apocalyptic works go (Being based more on theology, than chronology etc.).

It does show me another reason why Revelation was one of the last books to be received in the main NT canon. It's structure being unlike the other canonical books except the Gospel of John.

To me it makes just as much sense as Jesus telling Nicodemous that he was in heaven.

For me the Bible is an undivided (relational) narrative, much like a name written on a white stone ...

 

[Pavel Mosko]

That's all true, but I don't think you can find a coherent reason why John the Baptist would be inferior outside of covenant ones relating to time... I'm mean beyond "Jesus says so" (why did Jesus say X?).



Hebrews 8

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

 

[Scott Husted]

That's all true, but I don't think you can find a coherent reason why John the Baptist would be inferior outside of covenant ones relating to time... I'm mean beyond "Jesus says so" (why did Jesus say X?).



Hebrews 8

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

For me it’s not about less or more, old or new. John the Baptist represents something in relation to the mystery of God hid from the foundation of the world (Christ crucified) no less than Moses did, a pattern that began in the first garden, and a truth that builds upon itself.