About God's chosen...

[Shinsoo]

I am curious about something. I have been reading the Bible lately after a really really rough experienced meddling with things I shouldn't, and honestly I've felt a lot better since then.

But when I read the Old Testament, I feel a little sad. I have yet to see anything in the Old Testament that suggests we're all worthy of Christ's love, of God's love, even if we're not related through Abraham's bloodline--which were God's chosen ones.

I know we are worthy of love, as Christianity now spawns all over the globe. And I feel safe and protected when I DO read the Bible. So I know it's the Truth.

I just would like to know...where is the turning point where pretty much God says "Ok, it's not just Abraham's line that is worthy of My Love, but everyone is." Or was that the whole point of the New Testament?

Thank you for reading.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Nothing in the OT nor in the NT says people/men/mankind is wrothy of God's Love or Grtace.

Not even Abraham, the Israelites, no, not anyone is worthy of His Grace and Forgiveness.

Everyone was subjected under sin, and sheer grace in Jesus Christ according to all of His Word is the ONLY WAY and ONLY HOPE for anyone to receive forgiveness, joy, peace, righteousness and eternal life.

 

[solid_core]

I am curious about something. I have been reading the Bible lately after a really really rough experienced meddling with things I shouldn't, and honestly I've felt a lot better since then.

But when I read the Old Testament, I feel a little sad. I have yet to see anything in the Old Testament that suggests we're all worthy of Christ's love, of God's love, even if we're not related through Abraham's bloodline--which were God's chosen ones.

I know we are worthy of love, as Christianity now spawns all over the globe. And I feel safe and protected when I DO read the Bible. So I know it's the Truth.

I just would like to know...where is the turning point where pretty much God says "Ok, it's not just Abraham's line that is worthy of My Love, but everyone is." Or was that the whole point of the New Testament?

Thank you for reading.

If you think that you are loved because you are worthy, your theology has quite a fragile basis.

 

[Shinsoo]

Maybe I have misspoke? Basically I would like to know why God, despite other nations existing at the time obviously, chose just the Israelites to help (as well as helped anyone who helped the Israelites, like Rahab).

Maybe it was just meant as a focal point and the Israelites are pretty much cut out of the same piece of sinful cloth as anyone else, and the Good Book just needed some examples to drive the story forward?

Thanks!

Goodness though. o.o; This is really a hardcore forum, lol

 

[solid_core]

Maybe I have misspoke? Basically I would like to know why God, despite other nations existing at the time obviously, chose just the Israelites to help (as well as helped anyone who helped the Israelites, like Rahab).

Maybe it was just meant as a focal point and the Israelites are pretty much cut out of the same piece of sinful cloth as anyone else, and the Good Book just needed some examples to drive the story forward?

Thanks!

Goodness though. o.o; This is really a hardcore forum, lol

Israelites were not chosen to be helped, but to bring forth Christ in flesh. They had some special arrangements and promises because of that.

All people were always helped by God, as Scripture says: "He lets the sun to shine on both just and unjust."

 

[Shinsoo]

Israelites were not chosen to be helped, but to bring forth Christ in flesh. They had some special arrangements and promises because of that.

All people were always helped by God, as Scripture says: "He lets the sun to shine on both just and unjust."

Ok, that makes more sense and brings things into alignment.

It is interesting watching the progression of Abraham's bloodline tbh. When you take a break from the Faith for years to explore a more occult study, when you come back you see the Bible in a completely different way. I see the bigger picture. All that sin...just from that group alone, Christ basically has to pay the price for, plus all the sins of others.

All praise Christ, for certain. <3

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Israelites were not chosen to be helped, but to bring forth Christ in flesh. They had some special arrangements and promises because of that.

All people were always helped by God, as Scripture says: "He lets the sun to shine on both just and unjust."

Maybe I have misspoke? Basically I would like to know why God, despite other nations existing at the time obviously, chose just the Israelites to help (as well as helped anyone who helped the Israelites, like Rahab).

Not all people were helped (in respect to being saved/ gaining eternal life) though. All was accomplished according to God's Plan.
Ephesians 2:12 - Bible Gateway

https://www.biblegateway.com › verse
And you had no hope (no promise); you were in the world without God. BRG ... Do not lose sight of the fact that you were born “Gentiles”, known by those whose ...
EPHESIANS 2:12 KJV "That at that time ye were without Christ ...

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org › Ephesians-2-12
Ephesians 2:12 KJV: That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from ... from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: ... Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are ...

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I am curious about something. I have been reading the Bible lately after a really really rough experienced meddling with things I shouldn't, and honestly I've felt a lot better since then.

But when I read the Old Testament, I feel a little sad. I have yet to see anything in the Old Testament that suggests we're all worthy of Christ's love, of God's love, even if we're not related through Abraham's bloodline--which were God's chosen ones.

I know we are worthy of love, as Christianity now spawns all over the globe. And I feel safe and protected when I DO read the Bible. So I know it's the Truth.

I just would like to know...where is the turning point where pretty much God says "Ok, it's not just Abraham's line that is worthy of My Love, but everyone is." Or was that the whole point of the New Testament?

Thank you for reading.

Jesus said that not all of Abraham's bloodline were true children of Abraham. He said that those who believe and trust in Him as Saviour are Abraham's true children. Abraham's natural blood children rejected Christ and had Him crucified, but Abraham's true children through faith in Christ are the ones fully accepted by God.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Abraham's natural blood children rejected Christ and had Him crucified,

Not nearly all of them however.

 

[renniks]

I am curious about something. I have been reading the Bible lately after a really really rough experienced meddling with things I shouldn't, and honestly I've felt a lot better since then.

But when I read the Old Testament, I feel a little sad. I have yet to see anything in the Old Testament that suggests we're all worthy of Christ's love, of God's love, even if we're not related through Abraham's bloodline--which were God's chosen ones.

I know we are worthy of love, as Christianity now spawns all over the globe. And I feel safe and protected when I DO read the Bible. So I know it's the Truth.

I just would like to know...where is the turning point where pretty much God says "Ok, it's not just Abraham's line that is worthy of My Love, but everyone is." Or was that the whole point of the New Testament?

Thank you for reading.

There were people who were saved in the old testament who weren't Jewish. In fact there were whole cities that repented like the ninevites. So I wouldn't assume that God only spoke to the Israelites.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Not nearly all of them however.

The ones before the death and resurrection of Christ were those who put their faith in the grace of God and the future Messiah. The true sonship of Abraham remains as Christ as the centre of faith; either before as the future Messiah, or after as the resurrected and glorified Christ. Outside of Christ there was and is no true sonship of Abraham.

 

[eleos1954]

I am curious about something. I have been reading the Bible lately after a really really rough experienced meddling with things I shouldn't, and honestly I've felt a lot better since then.

But when I read the Old Testament, I feel a little sad. I have yet to see anything in the Old Testament that suggests we're all worthy of Christ's love, of God's love, even if we're not related through Abraham's bloodline--which were God's chosen ones.

I know we are worthy of love, as Christianity now spawns all over the globe. And I feel safe and protected when I DO read the Bible. So I know it's the Truth.

I just would like to know...where is the turning point where pretty much God says "Ok, it's not just Abraham's line that is worthy of My Love, but everyone is." Or was that the whole point of the New Testament?

Thank you for reading.

The OT is largely centered/focused on Gods judgement(s), discipline etc., this is because of the history of Israel and their continued disobedience towards God. However, even though they were disobedient, the Lord loved them and helped them through their difficulties ... He never left them.

The NT focuses largely on Gods love through the life and teaching(s) of Christ.

Jesus IS God ... the deep loving side of God is shown through Christ's life and His teaching(s) ... so that being the case .... yes we are all the same. It's not that we are "worthy" to be loved ... we are His creation, created in His image. He is our Father, we are His children ... with the final end being one giant loving family that will last for eternity ... the family of God living in perfect harmony with Him ... Our God ... Our Creator.

1 John 4:10
And love consists in this: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.

We are the same ....

Romans 9

6It is not as though God’s word has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7Nor because they are Abraham’s descendants are they all his children ...

Galatians 3

Sons Through Faith in Christ

26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.

You might want to start with the NT first and then go back to the OT.

Use a concordance .... that way it will also bring up similar verses from the OT and one can get a better correlation between Gods justice, mercy and love.

You can go here and do this fairly easily.
www.biblehub.com

Here's a place where you can search the entire bible topically
What Does the Bible Say About Gods Love?

God Bless. Happy you have return to the Lords Word and pray you will continue in Him.

 

[St_Worm2]

Hello @Shinsoo, here are some passages that may be helpful.

Genesis 15:1-6; Exodus 32:13; Deuteronomy 4:37, 7:6-9; Isaiah 43:10; 1 Peter 2:9
​

God didn't choose Israel because they were special in some way, rather, they became special because He chose them.

--David

 

[Shinsoo]

Also, I guess when I first posted...I didn't meant to sound like I was stuck up and expectant when I said we were worthy--it's just what I interpret it as. If we were truly not worthy in the eyes of God, he would have not sent Christ down to absolve our sins. Why would God send his only cherished son to go through all that trouble to set things up for a bunch of supposedly worthless sinners?

One of the problems in the Faith that had me stray for a bit, was that I was taught I was a piece of crap and a sinner and not worthy of God's love. (perhaps he felt condemning humanity for Adam and Eve's sin was rather unjust, and so His plan involving Christ came into focus?) But I can't just believe that 'obligation' was his only reason for sending Christ to us--this would also imply he made a mistake with Adam and Eve, and God never does that!

There were so many supportive people who helped me find my way back--if God wasn't guiding those people, I don't know who was. God, if I was truly unworthy of His love, or Christ's sacrifice--would not have sent those people to me. I would have been isolated and written off--even killed on the spot! But I wasn't. I am a sinner, I am not denying that in the slightest. But I am not worthless and devoid of value. Christ's love proves that. He saw my goodness under the layers of sin, God saw that in all of us. It wasn't the fruit of "badness" that Adam and Eve partook in, it was the fruit of Knowledge--of Good and Evil! We have a choice at all times!

God obviously had no qualms about offing people if people were doing truly heinous things after all.

It's easy for me to accept Grace than it is others. Maybe that is why I got such a strong rebuke from the responders here--I seriously hope you guys don't think yourselves unworthy of God's love. There is so much beauty in all of us just as there is sin. The world isn't an ugly place.

Maybe it is all just my perspective though. After all the hell I went through, when I returned Home, nothing could make me ever think about this planet and it's people being anything but beautiful. Because God created it!

Praise God <3

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The OT is largely centered/focused on Gods judgement(s), discipline etc., this is because of the history of Israel and their continued disobedience towards God. However, even though they were disobedient, the Lord loved them and helped them through their difficulties ... He never left them.

OR
it is about His Redemption/ Plan for all mankind,

and the perfect mercy and grace (yes, even or especially to Israel whom He CHOSE to bring SALVATION to the world through) ...

in granting anyone atonement, a way to be right with Him.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If we were truly not worthy in the eyes of God, he would have not sent Christ down to absolve our sins. Why would God send his only cherished son to go through all that trouble to set things up for a bunch of supposedly worthless sinners?

THAT is part of what HE REVEALS IN TORAH, PROPHETS and PSALMS.

TRULY we ARE NOT worthy. No man is. (nor woman)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The world isn't an ugly place.

The whole BIBLE shows that mankind(all society) is wicked and perverse, rebellion rampant against God.

HIS MERCY and HIS PROVISION is the ONLY reason any one of us is saved in CHRIST JESUS from the wickedness of the world and of our own sin !

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

p.s. The Gospel of Christ Crucified is not about us, so much.

IT IS HIM! HIS GLORY ! when we were such sinners - HE DIED FOR US! (or SENT His Son to Die for us) ....
UNimaginable love, grace and mercy and forgiveness when we had NOTHING to offer!

yet most of the world REJECTS HIM! surprise of surprise - they reject HIM, the only one

who has the words of ETERNAL LIFE!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

He IS beautiful. Wonderful. Wise. Smart. Eternal. Righteous. Perfect. Infinitely Strong. Unchanging. Forgiving. Perfect in Judgment with no iniquity. Righteous.
LIFE-GIVING. Nurturing. HELPFUL.
Our Friend, and more > to those who love Him, who are called according to His Purpose, He Gives the power to become children of GOD (instead of remaining sons of disobedience!) .....

even though we once were lost, blind, unrighteous, sinful, and wicked and had nothing (except willingness?) to offer to HIM. He saved our lives out of the miry clay... and set our feet on the King's High Way (highway/ narrow way in Christ Jesus (few find) ) ...

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

God obviously had no qualms about offing people if people were doing truly heinous things after all.

Once, (or more),

He punished HIS PEOPLE, WHEN they obeyed Him... because they GRUMBLED.

and HE IS a jealous God, won't put up with the idolatry we see every day... no.