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About demon

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by TruthSeekerNSF, Sep 1, 2017.

  1. TruthSeekerNSF

    TruthSeekerNSF Newbie Supporter

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    I'm quite confused when thinking of things related to demons deeply. I've tried to persuade myself that God has his own profound decree for demons, and humans aren't comprehensive enough to understand it. That could be like that a 3-year old kid can't understand a very complex science theory which a scientist is pondering. However, I can't help finding out if there's a path leading my mind to get the closest to the truth now...


    Well, let's hark back to my confusion. Why does God not abolish demons' right of living? Why does God still reserve their right of making contracts with humans? Why does God still respect demons' free will and supernatural powers of black magic? Does those imply that God loves demons too? Can some demons be forgiven and saved and go back to heaven again then?


    According to my reasoning, I can only assume the matter as that God wanted to teach mankind why evilness is unforgivable and why those without Jesus’redemption would be sentenced to permanent death. So demons existence before the last judgment is a demonstration to show people why being infected by demons’flaws is absolutely unacceptable to heaven. And only the live show interacting with humans suffering in person can affect us deeply enough to be persuaded. I don’t know if my consideration is right. What are your opinions and evidences? Any inspiration will be appreciated much.


    By the way, the hell and demons will be destroyed permanently after the final judgment, won’t they?
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
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  2. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    Demons are simply angels who followed Lucifer, who is now Satan, in his rebellion. As for why they are free to do what they can do on Earth or elsewhere, Scripture does not give a reason. No provision for their salvation is mentioned either. However, that which is unexplained may be "nice to know" but it is not "need to know." Of course, sources of information outside of Scripture are not likely reliable sources of information on demons, as Satan is the father of lies. When he does tell you the truth, it is only to set you up for another lie.

    As for permanent destruction, do you mean annihilation, or do you mean perpetual torment? Given what Revelation 20:9-10 says, I lean toward perpetual torment:

    And [the men of the nations that Satan deceived] marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.​

    So you have the devil, the beast, the false prophet, and the armies of the deceived men all being tormented forever and ever, in the lake of burning sulfur. I don't see why demons would be anywhere else.
     
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  3. Sarah G

    Sarah G Human bean. Supporter

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    As God is all love, light and goodness and He created all things, including Satan and his followers, I find it feasible that God doesn't see bad and good but rather, close to Him (light, pure, holy, sanctified) and far from Him (dark, evil, corrupt, sadistic). I am sure God, being all loving, waits for His fallen angles whom He created and loves to return to Him. Thus, He doesn't destroy them. He makes it very easy for us to return to Him. All we have to do is want that light and set out after it by surrendering and repenting. Then we make endeavours to get closer and closer to God, who is everything pure, good, loving and light. It seems difficult sometimes but really it is simply surrender, repent and allow the Holy Spirit to guide us, constantly. The fallen angels can return to the light too, if they choose to, with their free will.

    But that is my opinion and you want evidence. Well, here is my evidence :D
    1 John 4:8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
     
  4. Bro. Daniel

    Bro. Daniel Prophet & Psalmist

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    You're on the right track as God is leading you. Satan and his demons are a test for mankind because of our fall. Sin (disobedience) is what allows a demon access into a person who sins.

    God provided early on in the Bible all laws, precepts, codes, statutes, and principles to prevent sin but everyone has free will. The results from sin are either demon, curse or death if left unrepentant and they can either come from God or satan as God created both Good and Evil but did not intend man to use it. (Isaiah 45:7)

    When Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, they became the definitive authors of absolutes - a heavy burden of moral judgment which was not meant to be their portion. This gave mankind the ability to create their own moralistic view of judgment choosing what is good and evil on their own instead of God being the judge hence making them godlike but not immortal in the flesh. (Psalm 82:6-7, John 10:34-35)

    He gave us power and authority to destroy them. We can command them to the lake of fire for their everlasting judgment to burn in it. We have authority and dominion but not many use it or realize this ability. (Luke 10:19) He does not intervene in free will but gives us the power to destroy the devils works and his demons. (Ephesians 6:12, 2 Corinthians 10:4) This also is dependent upon our spiritual walk and level rooted in the word and God. (Matthew 12:28, Matthew 17:21)

    We have the Edenic, Adamic, Noahic, Abrahamic, Mosaic, Yahushuaich covenants. Yahushua (Jesus) is the final covenant we must fulfill to enter the Millennium of the Sabbath rest. (1000 year reign)

    God doesn't go back on His word. (Isaiah 55:11) He doesn't actually respect demons because they're all going to die anyhow. Those who decide to use black magic (or any magic for that matter) to increase evil knowledge and power to do evil are deceived and will eventually end up in Hell fire if they do not repent.

    No, He doesn't. They are reserved for Hell and the Lake of Fire. Since there was no place to put unsaved men, Hell enlarged itself and man goes in there as well although it was reserved for satan and the fallen sons of God.

    No. Everyone is given a chance as a living breathing person to get saved to confess all sins and come to God through Christ. Some don't take it or never get reached because someone didn't fulfill their destiny due to satan's involvement. There are many other factors that go along with this statement.

    Unsaved persons can be converted into demons by satan in Hell and come back (reincarnation).
    But I doubt the conversion process for demon back to a spirit is reversible and 'salvageable'. What's corrupted is corrupted at that point. I've heard people who've seen roaming spirits or ghosts (some are demons) as no Angel or demon has picked them up. They died alone and are stuck until the 2nd Rapture to be destroyed as with all the wicked (Matthew 13:36-51). No one wants to be caught in the Rapture. They will be here for the tribulation and a remnant is left behind. Remnant means small remainder left for Christ to pick up upon His return. (Isaiah 6:8-13)

    Almost correct. Notice Adam and Eve didn't get destroyed outright though they did evil disobeying God's first law. Evilness is forgivable as long as you're alive to repent of it and ask forgiveness. Evil is a disconnect from God. It separates us from Him when we sin. (Isaiah 59:1-2)

    Although, those who do not abide in Christ abide alone and die like you said but twice - natural death from Earth to end up in Hell as imprisonment or stuck on the Earth (as said above) or in space if they decided to astral project and the second is their spirit receives death in the lake of fire before the White Throne Judgment when God's 2nd Rapture hits. (John 12:24, Matthew 13:42, Revelation 20:11).

    Somewhat correct and no. You can die with demons attached and make it to Heaven. It's up to God which saved Christian enters Heaven. The remaining demons in a person's body that have not been fully delivered or are stuck will transfer to the living members of the family unfortunately. (Exodus 34:7) The reason being is if God tried to pull certain demons out of a person, the deliverance process could kill them and they would have to be raised back from the dead and God doesn't like to do that because it will tear a person's insides up. Demons are super stubborn and some bigger ones have rooted themselves deeply. It's up to God honestly. Sometimes He will use the demons to make sure a person never sins in that area again. Like Paul for instance with the thorn in his side. (2 Corinthians 12:7) God said He put it there because Paul was arrogant. You can notice it in some of his letters to the different groups throughout the Bible.

    As Christians we become living testimonies to others. Without sin, demons and satan are bound but we can see that's not happening because people are still sinning. (1 John 1:10) By choosing to sin intentionally or unintentionally, we actually free the demons giving them legal right to attack and allowing them to be inside of us giving them life to move (depending on God's covering, relationship, prayer and spiritual life etc.).

    Consider demons as parasites requiring a host. Sinning is similar to giving one's house keys to a burglar willingly. It's why God says not to sin but we are flawed nonetheless and have to be perfect and righteous to the best of our own ability through God, the Holy Spirit and Yahushua being repentant always staying in prayer and asking God what is right and wrong. (Ephesians 6:18, John 10:27, 1 Corinthians 2:9-16)

    Regrettably, some believers like to superimpose and tailor God's laws to their own beliefs to keep or justify sins but they don't realize sin separates people from God. As a Christian the condemnation of the law is what is not received if repented quickly of the sin. Some like to say a little sin is ok like a white lie. (1 Corinthians 5:6, Galatians 5:9) All it takes is a little to ruin things. It will block a blessing, a miracle, a breakthrough, a heavenly promotion and anything else God is trying to give someone. Leaving sins unrepentant or over repentance becomes vain and frustrates God's grace and mercy. God's grace and mercy covers us from instant death and it is reserved for whom He chooses. (Romans 9:13, Exodus 33:19) Some forget the law is spiritual and not natural so they don't see the damage right away. (Romans 7:14) That's why it's faith and not of works. (Ephesians 2:8-9)

    Here's a quick analogy. Sinning is like using an hourglass. The sand represents the soul. Committing sin purposefully flips the hourglass and part of the soul slides into the bottom (Hell). It becomes fragmented and allows satan to destroy parts of it. To stop the flow, repentance and forgiveness, and washing it away with the Blood of Yahushua it flips back over. Psalms 23:3 is the prayer verse for its restoration which needs to be prayed twice daily. Here's some scripture people miss or misinterpret: (Romans 3:31, Romans 6:15, Proverbs 14:12, Matthew 5:29-30, Romans 7:23).

    God also uses demons to train us in spiritual warfare and how to deal with them in certain situations. Life is a testimonial process as we endure growing stronger and getting closer to God in our walk and relationship with Him helping others along the way that are dealing with those same demons. It allows us to gain knowledge in Him teaching us why we shouldn't sin and be a representation as ambassadors for others not to as well.

    But sometimes the process is similar to telling a child not to stick their hand in fire but it looks amazingly pretty and it's done regardless of the warning. Once they burn themselves, some learn from the mistake and some, unfortunately, do not. The cycle continues until a drastic warning is required or death occurs when God is tired of striving with someone and hands them over to satan. (Genesis 6:3, Romans 1:28)

    Yes, during Christ's final return which is actually pretty soon. Revelation 12 happens this month.

    Shalom and blessings

    Bro. Daniel

    (Philippians 4:20, Numbers 6:24-26)
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
  5. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    "Forever and ever" just means time does not exist there.
    It's not as if things age and get older. For example
    the sulfur would eventually run out.
     
  6. Petros2015

    Petros2015 Well-Known Member

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    Wait... what...? I guess you could get most of that from the wheat and the tares parable

    Matthew 13:24-30

    Either that, or the movie Aliens with Sigourney Weaver

    I think that's probably a valid comparison or the closest natural one available.

    "He who accepts an evil suggestion accepts the enemy into his body. The spirits are invisible, we give them bodies so they become visible."

    Thaddeus (Strabulovich) of Vitovnica - OrthodoxWiki

    We are doorways for them to be here. They want the doorway open to influence and eventually to a full hijacking and corruption. The door swings both ways - God wants the same thing, just given of free will, in the other direction, to Christ. God wants sons. It's possible that demons aren't doing things 'for spite' but that they also want progeny in some sense. They don't care about the host though.

    I think I see what you are saying and I agree with you on a personal level. When I walked away from God, I was 'taken' to some degree. The more I thought I was independent, the less independence I actually had and the more I was being driven. Eventually, I was becoming something hateful, resentful, twisted and dangerous. There was a moment or two in my life when the door went fully open. It was terrifying. So I guess if I had to answer your question, "why are there still demons?" it's because some of us won't turn to God unless we learn the hard way what we will turn into if we don't.
     
  7. JackRT

    JackRT Flat earther waking up ... Supporter

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    After over 70 years a Christian I am not at all convinced that there are such things as demons.

    "I have met the enemy and he is us."
    ~~~ Pogo
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
  8. Adstar

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    Demons are fallen angels who are in league with satan.. God could have wiped out satan and his demon allies but that would not have disproven the satanic claim to Godhood.. satans claim is that Angels can be gods like God and God has no right to the exclusive position of being the One and only God of all existence.. God has decided to show by demonstration that satans claim to Godhood is not legitimate and that God is justified to be the one and only God of all existence.. I believe God created the universe and humanity to act as a stage where this great controversy could be worked out.. In this universe God has given satan and his demons a limited freedom to do what they will to do to demonstrate why satans claim to Godhood is legitimate.. Satans first act was to sabotage Gods creation in the hope that doing so would demonstrate that God was imperfect seeing that His creation would be deemed as a failure.. Of course God foreknowing satans plans then went about demonstrating His Awesomeness by starting the process to Redeem His creation via the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ..



    two thirds of the heavenly host ( angels ) have sided with God and if God does not show that satans claim is false then these angels would have probably been won over the the path of destruction that satan and his angels took.. People who rebel against God and choose to dabble in the occult and open portals for demonic infiltration into their lives end up being cursed by demonic oppression and in the long run that is a punishment for being rebellious against the will of God.. So in a weird kind of way humans who align themselves to satan and his demons are punished by the very ones they align themselves to.. satan and his angels know that humans in the resurrection are destined to be higher then angels in eternity and thus they hate humans and want to destroy them.. When humans rebel against God and the protection of God is removed from then then they are cursed and destroyed by the ones that they unwisely think will help and bless them.. satan and his demons are destined to be cast into the eternal Lake of Fire .. There is no offer of salvation to satan and the fallen angels that aligned themselves to him.. The Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ is only a gift offered to Human beings..


    The Book of Revelation reveals that Hell will be opened during the time of the Wrath and the demons within will come upon the earth and torment mankind and afflict them with stings like the sting of a scorpion.. And that satan will come down to earth with great wrath because he will know that his time is short.. Of course followers of God will be protected from this time of great suffering but those who aligned themselves with satan and worshiped the beast will be greatly tormented by satans forces as their final act of pure hatred for humanity..
     
  9. Petros2015

    Petros2015 Well-Known Member

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  10. Bro. Daniel

    Bro. Daniel Prophet & Psalmist

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    Sorry to hear that. We fight against invisible forces. Our spiritual eyes have to be opened. Ask God to open them. God has closed them on purpose in Isaiah 6. (Ephesians 6:12) Pray Ephesians 1 verses 17-18 (Ephesians 1:17-18) God will open you to new revelation and what He wants you to see.

    (James 2:19) KJV: Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. Demons, devils or spirits enter people and use them.

    Ask God to destroy deliver the Girgashite spirit around you to help.

    We have to train ourselves to get higher and spiritually aware through worship, fasting, deliverance, constant prayer, drawing near to God as much as we can etc.
     
  11. Bro. Daniel

    Bro. Daniel Prophet & Psalmist

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    .
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
  12. Bro. Daniel

    Bro. Daniel Prophet & Psalmist

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    God said to give you Jeremiah 18. I'm posting the King James Version. I waited for confirmation and He's still wants you to read it. Ask the Holy Spirit for any discernment or revelation in the chapter before reading.

    Jeremiah 18 - King James Version
    1 The word which came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,

    2 Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.

    3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.

    4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

    5 Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying,

    6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the Lord. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.

    7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;

    8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.

    9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;

    10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

    11 Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.

    12 And they said, There is no hope: but we will walk after our own devices, and we will every one do the imagination of his evil heart.

    13 Therefore thus saith the Lord; Ask ye now among the heathen, who hath heard such things: the virgin of Israel hath done a very horrible thing.

    14 Will a man leave the snow of Lebanon which cometh from the rock of the field? or shall the cold flowing waters that come from another place be forsaken?

    15 Because my people hath forgotten me, they have burned incense to vanity, and they have caused them to stumble in their ways from the ancient paths, to walk in paths, in a way not cast up;

    16 To make their land desolate, and a perpetual hissing; every one that passeth thereby shall be astonished, and wag his head.

    17 I will scatter them as with an east wind before the enemy; I will shew them the back, and not the face, in the day of their calamity.

    18 Then said they, Come and let us devise devices against Jeremiah; for the law shall not perish from the priest, nor counsel from the wise, nor the word from the prophet. Come, and let us smite him with the tongue, and let us not give heed to any of his words.

    19 Give heed to me, O Lord, and hearken to the voice of them that contend with me.

    20 Shall evil be recompensed for good? for they have digged a pit for my soul. Remember that I stood before thee to speak good for them, and to turn away thy wrath from them.

    21 Therefore deliver up their children to the famine, and pour out their blood by the force of the sword; and let their wives be bereaved of their children, and be widows; and let their men be put to death; let their young men be slain by the sword in battle.

    22 Let a cry be heard from their houses, when thou shalt bring a troop suddenly upon them: for they have digged a pit to take me, and hid snares for my feet.

    23 Yet, Lord, thou knowest all their counsel against me to slay me: forgive not their iniquity, neither blot out their sin from thy sight, but let them be overthrown before thee; deal thus with them in the time of thine anger.
     
  13. Petros2015

    Petros2015 Well-Known Member

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    Hmm. We'll see what happens this month I suppose. Anything is possible. What are you expecting to see though when you say "Revelation 12 happens this month" and why this month inparticular? Most of Rev 12 looks like a recap of history that has already happened or has been happening for a while. Revelation 12 does happen this month, but it has been happening for a long, long, long time and will keep happening the month after next I expect.
     
  14. Bro. Daniel

    Bro. Daniel Prophet & Psalmist

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    Revelations 12 reveals the sign in the heavens: Between September 20-23 the planet Jupiter will pass through the constellation of Virgo. And it's happening on a Sabbath Day. The planets will also align in one straight line and God says because of the alignment, time will speed up and September will be a month to remember. Many will be blessed with healing, prosperity, blessings, deliverance, miracles etc. but many will also be destroyed. 2017 is a double edged sword year. 5777 is almost at an end, the year 5778 begins this month.

    The physical antichrist will begin to rise in the European nation. I'm unsure if they are born or has finally been trained. The antichrist 'spirit' was already here on the Earth, but as more people die, the spirit gets stronger. Many people are not fulfilling their call or destiny in Christ and satan took advantage of this opportunity by providing more problems in people's lives and keeping them in entertainment. By doing this, a lot do not have a sound relationship with God through daily prayer, worship, study and literally hearing his voice doing His will.God just said to me "Parable of the 10 virgins" as I was typing.

    God warned many to get their houses in order the beginning of this year (our spiritual lives and actual homes) meaning removing idols, repentance, prayer, breaking generational curses (Leviticus 26:40) but many did not listen or the word wasn't spread far enough so... here we are.

    God also said if He were to receive His true Children out of the 2.9 billion professing Christians on this planet, only 1% would come home.

    Judgment has been passed on several places in the U.S. - God said TX will get hit again because they have a high amount of human trafficking. U.S. east coast will get hit as well. A volcano will erupt in the ocean and kill many. The waters will rise because of the massive amounts of floods from rain in storms and hurricanes burying some islands in water between the rest of 2017 to 2018. God said He is cleansing the lands. California will receive an unstoppable Tsunami end of 2019 beginning of 2020. God is tired of the iniquity. Mexico will be receiving a meteor and another is on it's way. Planet Nibiru will come very close to hitting the orbit of the Earth and we must pray God to move it away. If not, millions will die because it will cause a pole shift changing the land and the weather patterns even more. NASA will reveal Nibiru soon. Russia already knows about Nibiru. There will be water contamination in many places. Hosea prophecy is coming to pass. The ocean floor has shifted causing many marine and wildlife to become displaced. ex.: many sharks coming to the shores.

    Scriptures: Acts 2:17, 19, Psalms 104:30-32, Jeremiah 7:15-16, Jeremiah 11:10-12, Jeremiah 12, Revelation 12

    God said to pray for the President Trump because we went from having 8 good reduced to 4. If he leaves office too early, Christians will be severely persecuted and America will go into captivity. God will allow it because of America's unrepentance. Those who supported and rallied with "Chrislam = Christianity + Islam", God spewed these people out of His mouth cursing themselves until they repent. Those who are rallying period with or without violence are already under judgment.

    People must bridle their mouths or ask the Holy Spirit to do it. They are passing condemnation upon themselves by speaking death and curses over others and dying off early. (Isaiah 54:17, Proverbs 18:21) It does not manifest right away but it gives satan legal rights to destroy them later on and they will also be accounted upon the day of judgment. (Matthew 12:36)

    These prophecies came from Apostle Rosalind Solomon, Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj and many others around the world from God as confirmation.

    Shalom and blessings,

    Philippians 4:20: Now unto God and our Father be glory for ever and ever. Ahmen.
     
  15. Petros2015

    Petros2015 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, thank you for explaining.

    I agree with this part. And it's likely some natural disasters will occur this year. An asteroid could come at any time and we are not great at detecting them and we've never practiced deflecting them. 70% of the Earth is water, so it's likely to hit water when it comes. When it does it's going to make a *real* mess of things. I feel like a lot of what Christ said specifically here

    Luke 21:24-26

    smacks of a big unavoidable asteroid hit in the ocean. So do other verses like 'seeing the sky rolled back like a scroll' Revelations 6:14 or 'something like a burning mountain cast into the sea' Revelations 8:8.

    So if I woke up tomorrow and the news said we found an asteroid a month out heading towards us and there's nothing we can do about it, I wouldn't be at all surprised, and those scriptures would very quickly be fulfilled, followed I suspect by many others.

    Here I draw the line. Nibiru is bunk, I've been listening to conspiracy stuff on Nibiru for the last 6 years or so, bought the book, read it on a beach in Belize in 2012, was very entertained.

    https://www.amazon.com/Planet-Forecast-2012-Survival-Guide/dp/1597720755

    I remember when it was heralding the Mayan Apocalypse, and I guess those guys just never let up. I'm amazed it's still around. Here you have to look into the sources of sources and really follow the rabbit hole back to where it came from.

    If you love Truth, you will discard it and discard those the propagate it. And that's what God gave me to give to you. Ask the Holy Spirit for any discernment or revelation in regards to it, and follow the story back. It's a big lie that has been propagated for a while, and Truth has no congress with lies.

    I'm happy to pray for President Trump. He is a legitimately elected president and has great power and responsibility. From where ever he is in his spiritual walk, may he seek and find God's will, truth, wisdom and salvation daily. That can only be for the benefit of us all.

    Thank you for taking the time to answer my inquiry. I do appreciate it and likewise wish you well.
     
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