about death!

[JohnRabbit]

there seems to be some disagreement about death that i see in this forum.



Jesus said:

John 3:16(NKJV)
16For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

and paul says:

Romans 6:23(NKJV)
23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

on the one hand there's life, having life, and on the other there's death, having no life at all - in any state (imho).


the two are diametric to each other.


what say you?

 

[Optimax]

Death as used in scripture does not mean cessation of life.

There are three deaths that the Bible mentions.

1. Physical death
2. Spiritual death (The Bible does not use this term, but gives examples).
3. The second death.

Death as used by scripture is more easily understood if one uses the word "separation" to
better understand what is being said.

1. Physical death = separation of the real man from the physical body.
2. Spiritual death = separation from God, as experienced by Adam when he disobeyed God.
3. Second death = eternal separation from God by those who were not saved/born again (Rom 10:9).

 

[JohnRabbit]

Death as used in scripture does not mean cessation of life.

There are three deaths that the Bible mentions.

1. Physical death
2. Spiritual death (The Bible does not use this term, but gives examples).
3. The second death.

Death as used by scripture is more easily understood if one uses the word "separation" to
better understand what is being said.

1. Physical death = separation of the real man from the physical body.
2. Spiritual death = separation from God, as experienced by Adam when he disobeyed God.
3. Second death = eternal separation from God by those who were not saved/born again (Rom 10:9).

interesting!

however, paul says:

Romans 4:17(NKJV)
17God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did;

paul says that God is One Who gives life to the dead! this is totally different than what you have written.

doesn't this suggest to you that the dead don't have life?

 

[Optimax]

interesting!

however, paul says:

Romans 4:17(NKJV)
17God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did;

paul says that God is One Who gives life to the dead! this is totally different than what you have written.

doesn't this suggest to you that the dead don't have life?

Giving life to the dead (spiritually dead).

Death = separation from God.

When a person is saved/born again (Rom 10:9).

They are reconciled to God.

2 Cor 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; KJV

Once we are saved/born again/reconciled (Rom 10:9).

We are then no longer separated from Him.

No longer spiritually dead but spiritually alive.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Giving life to the dead (spiritually dead).

Death = separation from God.

When a person is saved/born again (Rom 10:9).

They are reconciled to God.

2 Cor 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; KJV

Once we are saved/born again/reconciled (Rom 10:9).

We are then no longer separated from Him.

No longer spiritually dead but spiritually alive.

oh, i see.

 

[Optimax]

oh, i see.

Quickened = NT:2227 word used in 1 cor 15:36 and 1 Pet 3:18.

zoopoieo (dzo-op-oy-eh'-o); from the same as NT:2226 and NT:4160; to (re-) vitalize (literally or figuratively):


KJV - make alive, give life, quicken.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

NT:4806 used in Eph 2:5 and Col 2:13.
Notice one of its root words is 2227.

NT:4806
suzoopoieo (sood-zo-op-oy-eh'-o); from NT:4862 and NT:2227; to reanimate conjointly with (figuratively):


KJV - quicken together with.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

1 Cor 15:36
Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened , except it die: KJV

Eph 2:1
And you hath he quickened , who were dead in trespasses and sins; KJV

Eph 2:5
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved KJV

Col 2:13
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; KJV

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: KJV

 

[BobRyan]

Death as used in scripture does not mean cessation of life.

There are three deaths that the Bible mentions.

1. Physical death
2. Spiritual death (The Bible does not use this term, but gives examples).
3. The second death.

Death as used by scripture is more easily understood if one uses the word "separation" to
better understand what is being said.

1. Physical death = separation of the real man from the physical body.
2. Spiritual death = separation from God, as experienced by Adam when he disobeyed God.
3. Second death = eternal separation from God by those who were not saved/born again (Rom 10:9).

The term "second death" is only used by John -- and only in Rev 20.

The other bible writers refer to that same event as "hell" as we see in places like Matt 10:28 where both body AND soul are dealt with according to the text.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Optimax

Death as used in scripture does not mean cessation of life.

There are three deaths that the Bible mentions.

1. Physical death
2. Spiritual death (The Bible does not use this term, but gives examples).
3. The second death.

Death as used by scripture is more easily understood if one uses the word "separation" to
better understand what is being said.

1. Physical death = separation of the real man from the physical body.
2. Spiritual death = separation from God, as experienced by Adam when he disobeyed God.
3. Second death = eternal separation from God by those who were not saved/born again (Rom 10:9).
​

Would make for an interesting thread.......

http://www.christianforums.com/t7708175-7/
Spiritual death

Everything hinges on the definition of “Spiritually dead” and if the person that is spiritually dead can do something for himself. We know the “spiritual dead” person can still physically feed himself, so what else can he do for himself?

How do you get around Jesus explaining to us that a person spiritually dead like the prodigal son can turn to the Father?[/

(Luke 15: 32) Christ has the Father explain what it meant to be dead and calls the son dead (not was thought to be dead) when the Father now knows he is alive: “…because this brother of yours was dead and has come to life; he was lost and has been found.”

Ezekiel also explains it:

Originally Posted by InSpiritInTruth

All men are firstborn spiritually dead toward God, that is why we must be born again of God's Spirit.
​

Kindgdom Bible Studies Lambs Book of Life Part 1

*SNIP*

........ Now, what is meant by this term – THE BOOK OF THE LIFE OF THE LAMB? The wise man said, "...of the making of many books there is no end..." (Eccl. 12:12).
　
The book stores are filled to overflowing today with all types of books dealing with every aspect of earthly life.
Even in the church world there are books setting forth every kind of viewpoint relating to God, the Bible, doctrine, Christian experience, and church order. However the subject material of most of these books largely contains a message of religious tradition and spiritual death.
But God is also producing a book – a book containing a message of life. For the past two millenniums God, by His Holy Spirit, has been writing portions of this Book in the minds and hearts of His people.................

How pitiful that the people of earth for the most part have never read this beautiful epistle of Christ, this glorious BOOK OF THE LIFE OF THE LAMB. They have poured over the books of religion, the books of man's theology, the books of hypocrisy, the books of fleshly wisdom, forms of godliness, dead doctrines, static creeds, empty rituals and ceremonies, and man-made rules and regulations. But precious few have ever seen THE BOOK OF THE LIFE OF THE LAMB!
Oh! What a wonderful gospel shall fill the earth beneath and the celestial realms above when God opens His holy Book of Life! The Book of Life is that blessed company of the sons of God, elect, chosen and transformed into the image of Christ throughout the ages.



.

 

[BobRyan]

Book of life --

[FONT=&quot]Psalm 69:28 (NASB, Darby, NLT, YLT)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]May they be blotted out of the book of life And may they not be recorded with the righteous.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]KJV[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Philippians 4:3[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Revelation 3:5[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Revelation 13:8[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Revelation 17:8[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Revelation 20:12[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Revelation 20:15[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Revelation 21:27[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Revelation 22:19[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.[/FONT]

 

[MoreCoffee]

there seems to be some disagreement about death that i see in this forum.

Jesus said:
John 3:16(NKJV)
16For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

and paul says:
Romans 6:23(NKJV)
23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

on the one hand there's life, having life, and on the other there's death, having no life at all - in any state (imho).

the two are diametric to each other.

what say you?

Eternal life is the life that God gives to the redeemed in the resurrection and in this age. It is received by union with Jesus Christ who called himself "The Life" as well as The Way and The Truth. And in John chapter fifteen Jesus explains what eternal life is about with these words:

I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in me that bears no fruit he cuts away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes to make it bear even more. You are clean already, by means of the word that I have spoken to you. Remain in me, as I in you. As a branch cannot bear fruit all by itself, unless it remains part of the vine, neither can you unless you remain in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me, with me in him, bears fruit in plenty; for cut off from me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a branch -- and withers; these branches are collected and thrown on the fire and are burnt. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, you may ask for whatever you please and you will get it. It is to the glory of my Father that you should bear much fruit and be my disciples. I have loved you just as the Father has loved me. Remain in my love. If you keep my commandments you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and remain in his love. (John 15:1-10 NJB)​

Those who receive eternal life keep it as long as they remain in Christ. Those who do not remain in Christ wither and die. Their death is to be separated from the source of eternal life, Jesus Christ,

 

[RileyG]

The second death is for those damned to hell.

Physical death is unnatural because God wanted humans to always be in full communion with him.....because of Adam's sin and rebellion,we now die and suffer diseases, passions etc.

IMHO.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

Book of life --

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Revelation 13:8[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

The hard question.

Is the Book of Life closed or is it still being written as time goes on?

 

[yogosans14]

Giving life to the dead (spiritually dead).

Death = separation from God.

When a person is saved/born again (Rom 10:9).

They are reconciled to God.

2 Cor 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; KJV

Once we are saved/born again/reconciled (Rom 10:9).

We are then no longer separated from Him.

No longer spiritually dead but spiritually alive.

Amen. Seems like this thread will get turned into a souls sleeper debate.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The hard question.

Is the Book of Life closed or is it still being written as time goes on?

It depends on one's perspective; a firmly convinced Calvinist may well think that since it is God's eternal decree that determines which names are in the book of life and which are not that the book would have been complete from before creation. A convinced Arminian may think of the book as a progressive work which will be completed only when the last judgement arrives.

Catholics and Orthodox very likely do not subscribe to either of the above views, preferring to leave it in God's hands to decide what names to include and when those names are recorded. Basically, the books writings is not revealed in detail so we're guessing no matter what position one takes and since the Catholic and Orthodox position is very likely to say "let's not bother guessing and be satisfied that the books are opened and the book of life is among them and that the dead are judged according to what is written in them, as the scripture says" it is not likely to be wrong. Right?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Eternal life is the life that God gives to the redeemed in the resurrection and in this age. It is received by union with Jesus Christ who called himself "The Life" as well as The Way and The Truth. And in John chapter fifteen Jesus explains what eternal life is about with these words:

I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in me that bears no fruit he cuts away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes to make it bear even more. You are clean already, by means of the word that I have spoken to you. Remain in me, as I in you. As a branch cannot bear fruit all by itself, unless it remains part of the vine, neither can you unless you remain in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me, with me in him, bears fruit in plenty; for cut off from me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a branch -- and withers; these branches are collected and thrown on the fire and are burnt. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, you may ask for whatever you please and you will get it. It is to the glory of my Father that you should bear much fruit and be my disciples. I have loved you just as the Father has loved me. Remain in my love. If you keep my commandments you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and remain in his love. (John 15:1-10 NJB)​

Those who receive eternal life keep it as long as they remain in Christ. Those who do not remain in Christ wither and die. Their death is to be separated from the source of eternal life, Jesus Christ,

I found this to be a very useful post

 

[MoreCoffee]

I found this to be a very useful post

Thank you ~Cassia~

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

Is the Book of Life closed or is it still being written as time goes on?

Catholics and Orthodox very likely to not subscribe to either of the above views, preferring to leave it in God's hands to decide what names to include and when those names are recorded. Basically, the books writings is not revealed in detail so we're guessing no matter what position one takes and since the Catholic and Orthodox position is very likely to say "let's not bother guessing and be satisfied that the books are opened and the book of life is among them and that the dead are judged according to what is written in them, as the scripture says" it is not likely to be wrong. Right?

Far be it for one to speculate in CF? I thought that is what this forum was made for; or at least a large number of the posts are.

Scripture does give some hints to speculate on.

Daniel 12:1 “At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book.

This passage reads as if the book is written before the people are delivered.


Elsewhere Daniel is told by an angel what to write of the future. This is a future that is already written down in a book located in heaven. Daniel 10:21 But I will tell you what is inscribed in the book of truth: there is none who contends by my side against these except Michael, your prince. What this implies is that God's plan for this world is set even if not literally written in a book in heaven.

Of course we can't forget the infamous passage. Romans 8:29 For those whom he[God] foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

And of God's sovereign choice we have Romans 9:22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory

 

[~Anastasia~]

there seems to be some disagreement about death that i see in this forum.



Jesus said:

John 3:16(NKJV)
16For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

and paul says:

Romans 6:23(NKJV)
23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

on the one hand there's life, having life, and on the other there's death, having no life at all - in any state (imho).


the two are diametric to each other.


what say you?

Dead does not necessarily mean physical death - the opposite of physical life.

Ephesians 2
1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,

4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Colossians 2
13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions


Both passages speak of being "dead" but since those people who were dead, and are now alive, are being addressed - the death did not mean their bodies were dead and they had no physical life, of course.

Death can mean several things, as pointed out by others here. But it's not simply "no physical life".