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Abortion and Sex Education

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Online.Gamer.79, Nov 18, 2020.

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  1. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

    +6,049
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    Nice post thanks...

    Reminds me that many branches of the church to not hold a funeral for a still birth. I think this is a serious error. If this happens, I would strongly suggest to have one privately if your church does not offer this support.
     
  2. KarateCowboy

    KarateCowboy Classical liberal Supporter

    +1,991
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    This is historically untrue. Prior to modern contraceptives unwed teen pregnancy was virtually unheard of because there was a high price to pay for the sins which you euphemize as "mistakes". Hint: fornication is not a mistake. Forgetting to carry the one in multiplication is a mistake. Fornication is a sin. You can make a strong argument that banning abortion or contraceptives would make chastity more important.

    The bottom line here is that you either believe in both science and human equality or you don't. A new individual of the species exists at fertilization. That is not a matter of opinion. If you're not a science denier then they only question is if you believe all humans are equal or that some are superior to others.

    The canard about prevent denying pre-born rights by throwing condoms at kids is exactly that: a canard. It's like saying "We can't have a Holocaust if there are no Jews to begin with!" Social justice and equality is about protecting the rights of vulnerable people -- not preventing them from existing in the first place.

    Sex education must constantly hold at the forefront the teaching that the raison d'être of sex is the creation of a new life. That is the biggest thing missing from sex education today.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020
  3. KarateCowboy

    KarateCowboy Classical liberal Supporter

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    When life begins and when life ends are related things but still different things. The fact that it's sometimes difficult to determine the latter does put into dispute the clarity of the former.
     
  4. PaulCyp1

    PaulCyp1 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +838
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    Yes, if you make murder illegal, some people will find ways around the law, and find people who will do the job for the right price. So, your solution is to make murder legal?? A woman should not be allowed to wait 6 months to hire someone to murder her child? Why not? He/she is the same child at 6 months that he/she was at 2 months.
     
  5. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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  6. zoidar

    zoidar Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,908
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    [​IMG]

    Fetus/baby week 21.

    "Approximately 9,090 women in the United States had abortions after their 21st week of pregnancy in 2012. That’s 1.3 percent of all abortions"

    How Long Can a Woman Wait to Have an Abortion in America?

    I will ask a question that is as relevant today, as always. How long time should a woman be allowed to wait before having an abortion? Also how do we/would we decide the time frame?
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
  7. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

    +6,049
    New Zealand
    Christian
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    In my country we are very 'progressive'...

    We allow abortion at full term (thanks Jacinda)

    Just leave them to die on the table if they don't measure up for any reason.
     
  8. Norbert L

    Norbert L Well-Known Member Supporter

    +908
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    You gave the solution in your own sentence. You don't know or can accurately predict the future result of these pregnancies. They are as unknown to you as the other forum member you responded to in the above sentence.

    Basically just because some mothers will feel traumatized to the point of wanting an abortion, that in no way means that their child won't turn out to be a productive and well rounded person when they grow up.

    Should we as people deny them that chance? Plus the chance for some mothers to grow past their horrible experience?
     
  9. Paladin67

    Paladin67 New Member

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    Abortion is evil, plain and simple. You're still willingly choosing to kill a child, the baby was going to be born healthy so there's no reason to kill it. What if the baby was going to be a blessing from God as a way to help you cope with being raped? Imagine the life you could have had with the child, we are all children of God and so was that child.

     
  10. SamanthaAnastasia

    SamanthaAnastasia Just a library lady

    637
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    You’re not going to change the laws and even if we could people are going to still do it in back alleys or sit on knitting needles or leave the babies in dumpsters. Now we have to prevent abortions from happening in the first place by providing support such as education and monetary charities.
    Adoption is great but
    BUT
    The sad terrible tragic thing is women who consider abortion never consider adoption because they would rather terminate the pregnancy than: give the child away, put the child in the “system” (which is not how adoption works), don’t want someone else have their baby, etc etc because it’s more socially accepted for single mothers to have children these days.
    So the solution is clear. If we cannot stop it by making it illegal, we prevent it from happening in the first place. Either by education or by providing support for the single mother to be able to keep the child. Now with education the church should never support fornication, that’s public education. But the church CAN provide education on child support, housekeeping budget, debt avoidance, etc and child care like daycare.
     
  11. coffee4u

    coffee4u Well-Known Member

    +2,133
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    Christian
    Married
    A funeral should always be offered, but also a simple acknowledgement of the parents as parents even if this was their first and only child. I was not offered a flower pin the first Mother's Day after our daughter passed and I can't even begin to say how much that hurt me. Such a small thing but such an impact. It doesn't matter how many years have passed either, thinking of that day still upsets me.
    I had two children after our first and had other pins but it wasn't the flower that was important, but being seen and acknowledged, especially in the church. In my opinion, even a woman who has had a known miscarriage should be offered a pin if this is something the church she attends does. And let's also not forget the fathers they need to be seen too.
    A lot of women struggle a lot after a miscarriage and feel overlooked, again I think some validation of the life she lost would go a long way. It isn't the length of physical life that is important but eternal life.

    2 Samuel 12:23
    But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.”
     
  12. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

    +5,787
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    ““Now suppose two men are fighting, and in the process they accidentally strike a pregnant woman so she gives birth prematurely. If no further injury results, the man who struck the woman must pay the amount of compensation the woman’s husband demands and the judges approve. But if there is further injury, the punishment must match the injury: a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a hand, a foot for a foot, a burn for a burn, a wound for a wound, a bruise for a bruise.” Exodus 21:22–25 (NLT)
     
  13. brudspirea

    brudspirea New Member

    22
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    Yikes, this video freaked me out severely. That is brutal.
     
  14. Redwingfan9

    Redwingfan9 Well-Known Member

    +1,502
    United States
    Reformed
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    Sex education does nothing more than encourage people to have sexual relations.

    Having said that, the only way things are actually going to change is for there to spiritual and cultural revival. Telling young people they have to be able to afford a house, cars and so on before getting married convinces many people to push off marriage until they're in their 30s. The absurd cost of higher education (thanks to cheap amd easy government loans) doesn't help matters.

    We live in a culture that worships youth, sex and frivolity. Meanwhile it hates children, families and God. The further marriage is pushed off the more likely it is that people will whore around, further separating them from God and the church. The left calls this freedom, God calls it slavery.
     
  15. SPF

    SPF Well-Known Member

    +1,933
    United States
    Protestant
    Married
    So does a person with a terminal illness and a 6 month life expectancy also have no value? This statement of yours is both revealing and ignorant of Scripture.

    Our moral worth and value as human beings comes from the fact that all humans are created in the Image of God. Our moral worth and value is not based upon anything we have done. Nor is it based upon our age, gender, race, level of development, or anything like that. To suggest otherwise makes yourself a bigot and is discrimination.

    Given that you have stereotyped and attacked conservatives about a dozen times exposes your cold and calloused heart. It's nothing less than hypocritical. It's also simply not true.

    I'm a foster parent. I've spent easily over 6 figures caring for single mom's and their children. What have you actually done other than attack others? I have met hundreds of foster parents, and in my experience - the vast vast majority are conservative, Christians.

    Thankfully a few other people have already called out your misinterpretation of this passage in Exodus. It makes me chuckle when people like you bring up this passage because in reality it literally teaches the opposite of what you want it to.

    The bottom line here is that as Christians, conservative or liberal - and and all Christian should recognize that all human beings are created in the Image of God and all human beings, regardless of their age possess inherent moral worth and value.

    And when it comes to the 98.5% of abortions which are performed for convenience reasons - we should all be more unified in recognizing that those are immoral. Instead of arguing over the 1.5% of abortions that are medically related, we should focus on the real problem - the 98.5% that are performed for convenience reasons.

    I mean let's be honest here, do we believe Scripture or not? Do we believe that God cares about us or not? Do we believe we are created in the Image of God or not? I think it's a shame how so many Christians are easily influenced and swayed by secular culture and opinions.
     
  16. SourLemon

    SourLemon New Member

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    pregnancy's...98% of those can be prevented with condoms(if there used correctly, they have roughly 98% success rate) and as a plus they can prevent STD's such as HIV. There is also birth control pills. Proper sex education would solve the unwanted pregnancy problem.

    Now for the moral conservative Christian View. You should be faithful to gods laws and not have sex till marriage. The problem with that is not every one is Christian and I know most hardcore conservative Christians do no respect any belief system but here own. Now starting at puberty and lasting into our 20's our bodies are going through major biological changes. Nature has imprinted on us the urge to mate. It is nice to preach wait till your married and some kids follow that but most kids even Christian ones do not. Teenagers and Young adult more often than not think with there hormones.

    My parents made sure all of us had proper education, My mom showed my sisters how to put a condom on a banana my dad did the same for us boys. They made sure all of us had access to condoms and my sisters birth control. They wanted us to wait for marriage but if we did not they wanted us to be prepared. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

    You Pro Lifers want to prevent abortion and every suggestion to do so you shoot down according to your moral and religious beliefs. Some people so not believe in god. This country is not freedom of Christianity...it is Freedom of Religion...the freedom to chose. Trying to force your religious and moral beliefs onto others does not help Christianity...its driving people away from it.

    The best way to prevent unwanted pregnancies is to teach our young proper sex education...and its not just about pregnancy. There are fatal STDs out there and the proper use of a condom could literally save your Child's life.

    All the preaching and hooting in the world does not change the fact that most teenagers and young adults make dumb mistakes...having unprotected sex can be a fatal one and if you fail to provide your child with the tools that could save there life and fail to do so...that is on you. One of my childhood friends from church got HIV when he was 16. He is dead now and if his parents had bothered to teach there child about condoms and how to use them...there is a 98% chance he would be alive today[/QUOTE]

    Now those two areas make up very small percentage.

    And I have heard plenty of people on here argue against abortion for victims or rape or medical reasons.

    So lets be real. If you make all abortion illegal you will accomplish nothing. Woman who can afford it will go to places that it is legal. Those who can not afford it will got back ally butchers.

    So lets look at unwanted pregnancy's...98% of those can be prevented with condoms(if there used correctly, they have roughly 98% success rate) and as a plus they can prevent STD's such as HIV. There is also birth control pills. Proper sex education would solve the unwanted pregnancy problem.

    Now for the moral conservative Christian View. You should be faithful to gods laws and not have sex till marriage. The problem with that is not every one is Christian and I know most hardcore conservative Christians do no respect any belief system but here own. Now starting at puberty and lasting into our 20's our bodies are going through major biological changes. Nature has imprinted on us the urge to mate. It is nice to preach wait till your married and some kids follow that but most kids even Christian ones do not. Teenagers and Young adult more often than not think with there hormones.

    My parents made sure all of us had proper education, My mom showed my sisters how to put a condom on a banana my dad did the same for us boys. They made sure all of us had access to condoms and my sisters birth control. They wanted us to wait for marriage but if we did not they wanted us to be prepared. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

    You Pro Lifers want to prevent abortion and every suggestion to do so you shoot down according to your moral and religious beliefs. Some people so not believe in god. This country is not freedom of Christianity...it is Freedom of Religion...the freedom to chose. Trying to force your religious and moral beliefs onto others does not help Christianity...its driving people away from it.

    The best way to prevent unwanted pregnancies is to teach our young proper sex education...and its not just about pregnancy. There are fatal STDs out there and the proper use of a condom could literally save your Child's life.

    All the preaching and hooting in the world does not change the fact that most teenagers and young adults make dumb mistakes...having unprotected sex can be a fatal one and if you fail to provide your child with the tools that could save there life and fail to do so...that is on you. One of my childhood friends from church got HIV when he was 16. He is dead now and if his parents had bothered to teach there child about condoms and how to use them...there is a 98% chance he would be alive today[/QUOTE]
    First post here, I saw this post here and just had to join.

    I think it is quite rare for any woman to have an abortion past the first trimester, most abortion procedures get riskier the further along a pregnancy progresses, and often once it gets past that stage a woman likely made the choice to keep it. Most abortions later then the first trimester are often because the pregnancy poses a severe risk to the woman's health or life, or the ultrasounds and other tests of the pregnancy show the developing baby has a condition or genetic issue that is incompatible with life.

    Now those two areas make up very small percentage.

    And I have heard plenty of people on here argue against abortion for victims or rape or medical reasons.

    So lets be real. If you make all abortion illegal you will accomplish nothing. Woman who can afford it will go to places that it is legal. Those who can not afford it will got back ally butchers.

    So lets look at unwanted pregnancy's...98% of those can be prevented with condoms(if there used correctly, they have roughly 98% success rate) and as a plus they can prevent STD's such as HIV. There is also birth control pills. Proper sex education would solve the unwanted pregnancy problem.

    Now for the moral conservative Christian View. You should be faithful to gods laws and not have sex till marriage. The problem with that is not every one is Christian and I know most hardcore conservative Christians do no respect any belief system but here own. Now starting at puberty and lasting into our 20's our bodies are going through major biological changes. Nature has imprinted on us the urge to mate. It is nice to preach wait till your married and some kids follow that but most kids even Christian ones do not. Teenagers and Young adult more often than not think with there hormones.

    My parents made sure all of us had proper education, My mom showed my sisters how to put a condom on a banana my dad did the same for us boys. They made sure all of us had access to condoms and my sisters birth control. They wanted us to wait for marriage but if we did not they wanted us to be prepared. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

    You Pro Lifers want to prevent abortion and every suggestion to do so you shoot down according to your moral and religious beliefs. Some people so not believe in god. This country is not freedom of Christianity...it is Freedom of Religion...the freedom to chose. Trying to force your religious and moral beliefs onto others does not help Christianity...its driving people away from it.

    The best way to prevent unwanted pregnancies is to teach our young proper sex education...and its not just about pregnancy. There are fatal STDs out there and the proper use of a condom could literally save your Child's life.

    All the preaching and hooting in the world does not change the fact that most teenagers and young adults make dumb mistakes...having unprotected sex can be a fatal one and if you fail to provide your child with the tools that could save there life and fail to do so...that is on you. One of my childhood friends from church got HIV when he was 16. He is dead now and if his parents had bothered to teach there child about condoms and how to use them...there is a 98% chance he would be alive today.
    [/QUOTE]
     
  17. SourLemon

    SourLemon New Member

    3
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    Sorry about that, mods please delete the above post. My phone is having trouble with this format and it is not letting me edit.
     
  18. Yesha

    Yesha Westminster Standards

    231
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    United States
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    Violating the Sixth Commandment is never permissible even in extraordinary circumstances.

    Do you apply this argument to murder outside of the womb as well?

    Unwanted pregnancies are a symptom of a deeper social ill that is rooted in sinful rebellion against the law of God. Desires for sexual freedom void of moral responsibility have led to the erosion of sexuality, marriage, family, and the devaluation of preborn life. Sex education will not stop the problem of unwanted pregnancies because sex education cannot regenerate a heart that is in love with its sin.

    Right. So let's apply this to the great American sin of racism. How could anyone, on grounds of the Biblical teaching that all men bear the Imago Dei, stand against slavery and segregation if what you say becomes our guiding principle? The Bible tells us to strive for justice.

    Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean; remove the evil of your deeds from before my eyes; cease to do evil, learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow’s cause. - Isaiah 1:16-17 (ESV)

    No, the best way to prevent unwanted pregnancies is to teach our children the law of God and their need to repent of their sin and trust in Christ as savior. The moral failings of American society, and anywhere else where this is a problem, are a symptom of a weak Church that has failed to faithfully proclaim the Gospel.
     
  19. Brightmoon

    Brightmoon Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

    +5,420
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    The highest rates of unwanted pregnancies and abortions are in the south of the USA aka the Bible Belt . Oppressive solutions to these issues (abstinence only and social condemnation ) don’t work well and even given just what I see on CF, ( even though I know this is a problem with all Abrahamic faiths) cause severe emotional problems as well.
    Birth control, adequate sex education , not mistreating women as if the only role we have are as wives , mothers and male property. These will lower the abortion rate . Banning abortions will just cause back alley abortions and travelling to get one , not stop it . That’s the way it used to be.
     
  20. Online.Gamer.79

    Online.Gamer.79 Member

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    Well I give up Bright, Conservatives do not want to try and find solutions other than do not have sex and that does not work. My first time was with my pastors daughter and she was really experienced. Conservatives really believe there children are saving themselves for marriage and some know doubt are but most are not. And sex education is not just about pregnancy. I lost a friend when I was a teenager to HIV. I remember his parents going on how they could not believe this happened and I snapped and told them very rudely that if they had there kid about condoms odds are he would still be alive. My parents taught there kids both abstinence is the only 100 percent guarantee against pregnancy, but condoms properly used are about 98 percent affective your partner is on the pill then the odds are even higher. It is not just about abortion it is about HIV and other which more controllable today but it still kills eventually. All I know is if my best friend had been taught sex education and condoms there is a 98% chance he would be here today
     
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