Abomination of Desolation. part 2

[mo.mentum]

I sometimes feel ashamed when i see fellow believers diss potential allies against atheism and corruption in this world.

A post began with about prophecies calling Mohammed a False Prophet, and Islam the beast. This cannot be further from the truth, especially after looking at our own Scripture and see the Signs God has left us.

Does Islam not glorify the One God? Does Islam not enjoin on its followers to believe in all the prophets that were sent before Mohamed? (including Adam, Abraham, Job, Jonah, Daniel, David, Solomon, Moses, Jesus, Jacob, Isaac, etc...) Is it that hard to conceive that we might have forgotten about an important part of the Monotheist family?

Either way, by acknowledging that a prophet came to mankind after Jesus does not in anyway invalidate our faith. In fact, it cannot but reinforce it, since Muslims acknowledge our Holy Books as Divine, and follow the same prophets as us.

The biblical texts themselves bear witness to the coming of the Paraclete, after Jesus. Let's look at some of the important information given to us about New Jerusalem and the Abomination of Desolation:

1.The New Jerusalem = the Messianic Jerusalem during the age of the promised savior.

2.In the wilderness or mountains of Paran where Ishmael and his mother lived, and where God brought forth a spring to save them. (today Mecca)

3.The city towards which Abraham would turn in longing.

4.Its residents are the tribe of Kedar (Arab descendants of Ishmael).

5.It is the city of the trustworthy and truthful one. (a label given to Mohammed during his youth, before he was entrusted with spreading the word of God in his 40s)

6.There is no temple therein. (at the time of these prophecies, there was no temple)

7.The Temple of Solomon in all its glory cannot compare to the new temple.

8.The new house is in the shape of a cube. (the Ka'ba in Mecca, to which Muslims all around the globe turn to pray)

9.The cubical house contains a valuable stone. (they call it the Black Stone)

10.It is festooned with garlands and jewels like a bride. (any picture of the Ka'ba reveals this)

12.The health-giving water of life springs from the vicinity of the cube-shaped house, free for all who desire to drink. (the stream is called zamzam and is pure)

13.Its gates are open day and night and never close.

14.Every knee in the world bends before it. (every Muslim in the world, prostrates to God in prayer, facing the direction of Mecca)

16.Its children are greater in number than the children of Jerusalem.

17.It is crowded with residents and worshippers.

18.Kings bow down before it and lick its dust.

19.The people gather there from afar. (yearly Muslim Hajj or pilgrimmage)

20.Its land is crowded from the camels and sheep brought there from East and West, Sheba, Midian, Paran and Kedar. The men of Maarib serve it.

21.There is a holy mountain there to which the nations come to worship God therein. (the mountain of Light)

22.Everyone there is equally free to worship God.

23.The name of God is written on the foreheads of its people.

24.The man bares his head and the woman covers her head. They cover from their loins to their legs, and shave the hair of their heads (the clothing worn during the state of ihram and the shaving of the head upon completion of the rites of pilgrimage).

What if the New Jerusalem is actually Mecca, and not the same city of Jerusalem. Alot of the remainder of the prophecies fall into place after we take this into consideration. All the pieces fit. No more contradictions and suppositions.

Let's consider the words of Christ to the Samaritan woman when she asked him which is the better place to worship Jerusalem or Mount Gerizim [the holy place of the Samaritans] He replied:

“Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.” –John 4:21.

--->
--->I didn't go much into detail, because I want to hear your opinion. I think i might have raised some eyebrows, but hear me out... What if we use the following keys to solve the prophetic puzzles. Put aside our pride and arrogance and try to see the Truth of these prophecies.

- The New Jerusalem = Mecca. Jerusalem was where all monotheists directed themselves during prayer, including early Muslims. Until God ordered Mohammed to switch to Mecca..

- The Trustworthy, Truthful One = the Paraclete = Mohammed (the unlettered one spoken of in Deutronomy)

- The son of Man who will come in the latter days = Mohammed. Since Christ is the son of Mary (a woman) and it is he who announced the coming of the great Messenger after him, and that he is the son of Man. It does not make sense that Christ could be the son of Man according to the nature of his birth as well as some of our own doctrine concerning him, since we hold that he is the son of God.

- The Messiah = Christ Jesus Son of Mary, messenger of God.

- The Anti-Christ = the false Messiah and great liar.

- The beast = Zionism in its Jewish and Christian fundamentalist forms, as well as extremist Islam.

- The false Prophet = Paul, the Popes, and everyone who claims to be Christ, or that Christ dwells within him, or sends revelation to him.

- The little horn = the abomination of desolation = the State of Israel. Since many Jews contend that they have been exiled from Israel by God's command and should not return until He commands it. However, the State of Israel was founded on an counter-religious, sectarian philosophy: Zionism.

- The New Babylon = modern Western culture.

- The new Roman Empire = Globalization.

Ok...i have SOO much more to say..but, flame me for now

 

[Wills]

- The Messiah = Christ Jesus Son of Mary, messenger of God.

- The Anti-Christ = the false Messiah and great liar.

- The beast = Zionism in its Jewish and Christian fundamentalist forms, as well as extremist Islam.

-- The little horn = the abomination of desolation = the State of Israel. Since many Jews contend that they have been exiled from Israel by God's command and should not return until He commands it. However, the State of Israel was founded on an counter-religious, sectarian philosophy: Zionism.

- The New Babylon = modern Western culture.

- The new Roman Empire = Globalization.

Ok...i have SOO much more to say..but, flame me for now

You are correct on some points. Only JESUS can form ISRAEL, since

nobody BUT JESUS can rule over a regathered Israel. ACTS 1:6 JESUS

tells then to keep away from forming a nation.. and A section of Jews

disagree with the nation being formed.

Western sodomy , cocaine, internet inappropriate content, greed, gold , oil, power lust

etc New Babylon... of course other cultures too have their errors but with its power, the western culture spreads itself.

The only problem is that MUSLIMS do not have the wisdom to see

the deity of Christ. CHRIST is God in flesh, WHICH IS IMPOSSIBLE

in Islam hence there is a serious problem there for Muslims.

GIVE YOUR REASONS AS TO WHY Christ cannot send any revelation to anyone. YOU HAVE TO QUOTE CHRIST and EXPLAIN what prevents Christ from

??? The false Prophet = Paul, or that Christ dwells within him, or sends revelation to him.

IS THE BOOK OF REVELATION FALSE? Impossible to prove it false.
Paul was just a devout Christian.He never said he was Christ.. ....... HIS WORDS ON ISRAEL could mislead though, if not properly undestood.
A hardening has come over Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles Romans

 

[Palatka44]

I - The son of Man who will come in the latter days = Mohammed. Since Christ is the son of Mary (a woman) and it is he who announced the coming of the great Messenger after him, and that he is the son of Man. It does not make sense that Christ could be the son of Man according to the nature of his birth as well as some of our own doctrine concerning him, since we hold that he is the son of God.

- The Messiah = Christ Jesus Son of Mary, messenger of God.

- The Anti-Christ = the false Messiah and great liar.

- The beast = Zionism in its Jewish and Christian fundamentalist forms, as well as extremist Islam.

- The false Prophet = Paul, the Popes, and everyone who claims to be Christ, or that Christ dwells within him, or sends revelation to him.

- The little horn = the abomination of desolation = the State of Israel. Since many Jews contend that they have been exiled from Israel by God's command and should not return until He commands it. However, the State of Israel was founded on an counter-religious, sectarian philosophy: Zionism.

- The New Babylon = modern Western culture.

- The new Roman Empire = Globalization.

Ok...i have SOO much more to say..but, flame me for now

Our Lord and Savior used this saying of himself and did not refer to any other as being the son of man. He was God in flesh or in the likeness of man. A truth that Islam can't concieve of. Thus Islam shows itself as a doctrine of devils.
Paul was the apostle to the gentiles. His letters are of suffering and sacrifice to the gospel of Christ. They speak of love to one another. They read of warnings of the consiquence of sin. They do not speak evil against those that oppose the doctrines of Christ, only that God is the judge of the hearts of men.
While the Popes of the Catholics have done great evil against those that oppose their doctrine whether they be Christian or Muslim, they are not nor ever have been Christian! A Christian would never harm or wish harm to Muslim, Catholic or Jew. Christ didn't, Paul didn't and one that is Christ like (Christian) wouldn't.

 

[mo.mentum]

Our Lord and Savior used this saying of himself and did not refer to any other as being the son of man. He was God in flesh or in the likeness of man. A truth that Islam can't concieve of. Thus Islam shows itself as a doctrine of devils.

Well Islam and Judaism prefer to stick to strict monotheism. There was no need to associate flesh with God at the time of Abraham or Moses or before them. That is what Islam tries to bring back.

While the Popes of the Catholics have done great evil against those that oppose their doctrine whether they be Christian or Muslim, they are not nor ever have been Christian! A Christian would never harm or wish harm to Muslim, Catholic or Jew. Christ didn't, Paul didn't and one that is Christ like (Christian) wouldn't.

True there. Same here.

"Say (O Muhammad): 'We believe in God and in what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the twelve sons of Jacob and in the books given to Moses, Jesus and all the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between one another among them and to Him (God) we have submitted ourselves.'" (Qur'an3:84)

 

[Wills]

Well Islam and Judaism prefer to stick to strict monotheism. There was no need to associate flesh with God at the time of Abraham or Moses or before them. That is what Islam tries to bring back.

Islam and Judaism are incomplete in their challenge of God's inability to appear in flesh. God appeared as a human and ate food with Abraham.

I wonder why God is assumed to have severe difficulties in being associated with flesh and be that same God.
The point is that is God's decision, humans cannot control God.

ABRAHAM SAW God in the flesh, amazing that Islam is ignorant of this.
Nobody can challenge God's capabilities, eating an all.
God later destroyed SODOM AND GOMORRAH while he was in flesh.

GENESIS 18 And God appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
3 And said, My LORD, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.
6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.
7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.
8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did
eat.

-------------------
Are humans trying to say God is weak, that God cannot be associated with THE VERY FLESH HE CREATED? Is it a difficult thing for the creator to transform himself??? No.

God owns and created flesh from dust. God cannot be prevented from associating himself with flesh.


Joshua saw God as well before one of his battles and fell at his feet with face in dust and offered him worship.

WHENEVER a human calls one MY LORD and falls at his feet in worship, THAT IS GOD.
If it is a mere angel, the angel will WARN YOU not to fall at his feet in worship, for we do not worship angels.

 

[cbk]

What if the New Jerusalem is actually Mecca, and not the same city of Jerusalem. Alot of the remainder of the prophecies fall into place after we take this into consideration. All the pieces fit. No more contradictions and suppositions.

--->I didn't go much into detail, because I want to hear your opinion. I think i might have raised some eyebrows, but hear me out... What if we use the following keys to solve the prophetic puzzles. Put aside our pride and arrogance and try to see the Truth of these prophecies.

Interesting thoughts. However, if this were true, Jesus would have to deny himself when he appeared and lived in Jerusalem. And, also, Christians would have to get over the hurdle of Christ's warning that many would come in my name but be Anti-Christ's. Therefore, no matter the package that the Muslim religion has set up (symbols), there is still that LITTLE thing of them believing that Christ was merely a prophet and he did not die for the sins of the world in a LITERAL fashion.

I was always wondering how an anti-christ could unite these two religions, if such a task is to happen. I think you may have answered these questions without me even asking.

 

[JesusServant]

I agree that we are to hate the sin love the sinner, but any further than that is wrong according to Scripture.

Islam is just another false religion that satan himself probably conjured up. Ishmael was filled with jealousy after all wasn't he? Which started the whole faith.

 

[Zorobabel]

"I sometimes feel ashamed when i see fellow believers diss potential allies against atheism and corruption in this world."

That's simply ridiculous. Worshipping Satan or serving Satan as athiests are no different.

 

[mo.mentum]

Wills. I wasn't aware of this version. In our version, God sent two angels to Abraham as a warning. God was with them, but not WITH them.

Muslims fall at their feet with face in dust every day, 5 times a day to worship God.

cbk. No no, not deny that Jesus lived in Jerusalem. He did, but the book of Daniel describes events that happened after the departure of Christ, and before the arrival of Muhammad.

Jerusalem is a holy city and the direction to which many Christians and Jews face during prayer. The New Jerusalem is another, different city. Since it is like Jerusalem, it must be holy and also has become another direction that faithful turn to during prayer, Mecca.

Mecca contains the Qa'ba. A cubic structure built by Abraham and Ishmael as a house of worshop to the One God. It is the descendants of Ishmael, the Arabs that diverted from the righteous path. Hence Muhammad, also an Arab, was sent to them as a warner and a messenger.

God did promise Abraham to spread his offspring throughout the land and to bestow upon them great blessings. Are not the sons of Ishmael, son of Abraham, his offspring as well?

The anti-christ is indeed among us. Muslims await the Second Coming of Christ to root out the False One, and restore religion to God.

Islam is just another false religion that satan himself probably conjured up. Ishmael was filled with jealousy after all wasn't he? Which started the whole faith.

Hmmm. With all respect. I'd have to diagree. Religions that might have been influenced by Satan would deny God the worship and praise He alone deserves. Whereas Islam attributes everything to God, how can it be inspired by Satan. Especially that the Qur'an is always trying to make us aware of Satan's treachery:

And remember when We said to the angels: "Prostrate yourselves before Adam.". And they prostrated except Satan, he refused and was proud and was one of the disbelievers (disobedient to God). (Q2:34)

O mankind! Eat of that which is lawful and good on the earth, and follow not the footsteps of Satan. Verily, he is to you an open enemy. (Q2:168)

Satan wouldn't start a religion which puts God at the centre of every aspect of life, and warns about Satan along every path.


Are you all condeming me to hell because i chose to dedicate my life to God directly, Son or no Son?

You say that I worship Satan, only because i choose to worship none other than God, with no intercessary or intermediary.

I wonder why God is assumed to have severe difficulties in being associated with flesh and be that same God.
The point is that is God's decision, humans cannot control God.

It's not about God not being able to incarnate as flesh. It's about God being much higher and above that. He doesn't need to incarnate to understand the life of flesh or to save us. He's God! He knows us each one of us inside out. He doesn't need to sacrifice anything to give us salvation, He is the All-Merciful, Most Wise, All-Knowing, and Almighty.

He but says to a thing, "Be!" and it is. Yet He cannot us forgive us without sacrificing His only begotten son?

Say to them: "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but God, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides God." Then, if they turn away, say to them: "Bear witness that we submit ourselves to Him." (Q3:64)

 

[Zorobabel]

Why are you quoting the Quran here? It is anti-Christ, the rewriting of God-breathed scripture by one man.

Your relationship with God has nothing to do with your 'worship' of him. You are a sinner. God is by nature all-good, not some of fairy tale-type thing that sits in the sky and gives martyrs virgins. He can't be above the fundamental question of good and evil. It's like saying a judge who pardons a murderer is above the justice system. No, that's outright injustice. We should be condemned to hell for our sins, and many of us are. Why would God want to bestow His great mercy and love on someone who refuses something as simple as recieving His Son? You can't achieve salvation on your own. Am I supposed to be impressed that Muslims drop on their knees? Should I be impressed with their other actions that I don't even have to name?

 

[mo.mentum]

Why are you quoting the Quran here? It is anti-Christ, the rewriting of God-breathed scripture by one man.

Your relationship with God has nothing to do with your 'worship' of him. You are a sinner. God is by nature all-good, not some of fairy tale-type thing that sits in the sky and gives martyrs virgins.

Ok. First, CHILL AND RELAX! Spreading corruption and lewd words will not win me over. And certainly not by calling me a sinner. For by doing so you claim to be a judge beside God.

Your statement about virgins for martyrs also display a lack of understanding of the Qur'an, and probably an extension of your bigotted views of non-trinitarian christians. These "70 virgins' arguments have long been used to discredit Scripture and am not surprised you employ them.

I bet you didn't even read the quotes i pasted. So how can you judge you don't like something if you refuse to read in the first place. Have you been blinded by blind faith?

God gave you reason and intellect that you may use it.

He can't be above the fundamental question of good and evil. It's like saying a judge who pardons a murderer is above the justice system

Is He not God? How can you put a limit on what He is above?! He is infinite and hence above all. Good and Evil are concepts created by Him through which He tests the faithful. You cannot compare a human judge to THE Judge who created everything.

Am I supposed to be impressed that Muslims drop on their knees? Should I be impressed with their other actions that I don't even have to name?

You speak as though Islam is the only religion that has produced "terrorists". Such a statement again underscores your ignorance of historical/political/theological realities.

What the spanish did in south america in the name of Christ was not terrorism? Just the killing of millions of innocents.

What the first crusaders did in Jerusalem after their initial conquest is not massacre, right?

What European powers did to their own poeple in WW1 and WW2 is normal, right?

Don't go off generalizing and stereotyping an entire culture and history based on a few heretics. Christianity underwent its own dark ages, and Islam is going through its own now.

MAN! Poeple like you **** me off. But it's ok. I still love you because you love God.

The Almighty Knows Best.

 

[Atkin]

It's not about God not being able to incarnate as flesh. It's about God being much higher and above that. He doesn't need to incarnate to understand the life of flesh or to save us. He's God! He knows us each one of us inside out. He doesn't need to sacrifice anything to give us salvation, He is the All-Merciful, Most Wise, All-Knowing, and Almighty.

He but says to a thing, "Be!" and it is. Yet He cannot us forgive us without sacrificing His only begotten son?

You CANNOT think for God. Who are Muslims to determine what God feels about appearing in flesh or upon what grounds can you look into God's thoughts and determine how he imparts salvation.?

God is too important to appear in flesh..... says who? In which verse of the Bible.?

Go through the Bible and tell us when God said He was too high to appear in the flesh which IS MADE IN HIS OWN IMAGE... cognitive wise among others GENESIS 1:25-27

The real fear you have is the pain at bowing down to a human form as God in flesh.
Well, you will bow with face in the earth at He who appears in flesh.

God is too powerful to use fire to burn humans into obedience (at least before judgement). The problem with Muslims is the savagery aspect that they associate with some Allah,... which blinds you from the intelligence of God.

Get this straight. Jesus Christ was crucified for the sake of poor helpless lost humans.
It was not an act of weakness.
That same Christ can destroy millions of humans, if He needs to. Do not underestimate that situation at all.

The MAJOR POINT that I would really like to hear from Muslims is, are you going to face Christ and tell him He is not who he is when he appears?

I hope you have the guts to preach direct to him , at least you would be honest with yourself.

 

[Palatka44]

You CANNOT think for God. Who are Muslims to determine what God feels about appearing in flesh or upon what grounds can you look into God's thoughts and determine how he imparts salvation.?

God is too important to appear in flesh..... says who? In which verse of the Bible.?

Go through the Bible and tell us when God said He was too high to appear in the flesh which IS MADE IN HIS OWN IMAGE... cognitive wise among others GENESIS 1:25-27

The real fear you have is the pain at bowing down to a human form as God in flesh.
Well, you will bow with face in the earth at He who appears in flesh.

God is too powerful to use fire to burn humans into obedience (at least before judgement). The problem with Muslims is the savagery aspect that they associate with some Allah,... which blinds you from the intelligence of God.

Get this straight. Jesus Christ was crucified for the sake of poor helpless lost humans.
It was not an act of weakness.
That same Christ can destroy millions of humans, if He needs to. Do not underestimate that situation at all.

The MAJOR POINT that I would really like to hear from Muslims is, are you going to face Christ and tell him He is not who he is when he appears?

I hope you have the guts to preach direct to him , at least you would be honest with yourself.

In the process of His incarnation He has shown His willingness to sacrifice everything for our salvation.
Of course He doesn't have to sacrifice His Son nor does the Son have to obey. But because the Son is in the Father and the Father in the Son the thing or action of salvation is accomplished in Him. Because we humans know and honor sacrifice, He came as a sacrifice for sin.
All cultures of man, even Islamic cultures, honor those who have sacrificed themselves for the exaltation of friend, family, neighbor or society.
Adam sacrificed his position for Eve, as she was tempted first.
At the call of God, Noah sacrificed his life to build the ark and saved his family.
In all the annals of mankind History is rife with stories of self-sacrifice.
Does it not stand to reason that God who knows us inside and out would give the ultimate sacrifice the life of His Son? And the Son the ultimate sacrifice of turning of His own desires, to do the will of His Father, even if it would mean the giving of His own life? Again He did not have to, He wanted it to.
Let all that has breath give praise unto the Father, Son and Holy Ghost!

 

[Palatka44]

I sometimes feel ashamed when i see fellow believers diss potential allies against atheism and corruption in this world.

A post began with about prophecies calling Mohammed a False Prophet, and Islam the beast. This cannot be further from the truth, especially after looking at our own Scripture and see the Signs God has left us.

Does Islam not glorify the One God? Does Islam not enjoin on its followers to believe in all the prophets that were sent before Mohamed? (including Adam, Abraham, Job, Jonah, Daniel, David, Solomon, Moses, Jesus, Jacob, Isaac, etc...) Is it that hard to conceive that we might have forgotten about an important part of the Monotheist family?

Either way, by acknowledging that a prophet came to mankind after Jesus does not in anyway invalidate our faith. In fact, it cannot but reinforce it, since Muslims acknowledge our Holy Books as Divine, and follow the same prophets as us.

The biblical texts themselves bear witness to the coming of the Paraclete, after Jesus. Let's look at some of the important information given to us about New Jerusalem and the Abomination of Desolation:

1.The New Jerusalem = the Messianic Jerusalem during the age of the promised savior.

2.In the wilderness or mountains of Paran where Ishmael and his mother lived, and where God brought forth a spring to save them. (today Mecca)

3.The city towards which Abraham would turn in longing.

4.Its residents are the tribe of Kedar (Arab descendants of Ishmael).

5.It is the city of the trustworthy and truthful one. (a label given to Mohammed during his youth, before he was entrusted with spreading the word of God in his 40s)

6.There is no temple therein. (at the time of these prophecies, there was no temple)

7.The Temple of Solomon in all its glory cannot compare to the new temple.

8.The new house is in the shape of a cube. (the Ka'ba in Mecca, to which Muslims all around the globe turn to pray)

9.The cubical house contains a valuable stone. (they call it the Black Stone)

10.It is festooned with garlands and jewels like a bride. (any picture of the Ka'ba reveals this)

12.The health-giving water of life springs from the vicinity of the cube-shaped house, free for all who desire to drink. (the stream is called zamzam and is pure)

13.Its gates are open day and night and never close.

14.Every knee in the world bends before it. (every Muslim in the world, prostrates to God in prayer, facing the direction of Mecca)

16.Its children are greater in number than the children of Jerusalem.

17.It is crowded with residents and worshippers.

18.Kings bow down before it and lick its dust.

19.The people gather there from afar. (yearly Muslim Hajj or pilgrimmage)

20.Its land is crowded from the camels and sheep brought there from East and West, Sheba, Midian, Paran and Kedar. The men of Maarib serve it.

21.There is a holy mountain there to which the nations come to worship God therein. (the mountain of Light)

22.Everyone there is equally free to worship God.

23.The name of God is written on the foreheads of its people.

24.The man bares his head and the woman covers her head. They cover from their loins to their legs, and shave the hair of their heads (the clothing worn during the state of ihram and the shaving of the head upon completion of the rites of pilgrimage).

What if the New Jerusalem is actually Mecca, and not the same city of Jerusalem. Alot of the remainder of the prophecies fall into place after we take this into consideration. All the pieces fit. No more contradictions and suppositions.

Let's consider the words of Christ to the Samaritan woman when she asked him which is the better place to worship Jerusalem or Mount Gerizim [the holy place of the Samaritans] He replied:

“Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.” –John 4:21.

--->
--->I didn't go much into detail, because I want to hear your opinion. I think i might have raised some eyebrows, but hear me out... What if we use the following keys to solve the prophetic puzzles. Put aside our pride and arrogance and try to see the Truth of these prophecies.

- The New Jerusalem = Mecca. Jerusalem was where all monotheists directed themselves during prayer, including early Muslims. Until God ordered Mohammed to switch to Mecca..

- The Trustworthy, Truthful One = the Paraclete = Mohammed (the unlettered one spoken of in Deutronomy)

- The son of Man who will come in the latter days = Mohammed. Since Christ is the son of Mary (a woman) and it is he who announced the coming of the great Messenger after him, and that he is the son of Man. It does not make sense that Christ could be the son of Man according to the nature of his birth as well as some of our own doctrine concerning him, since we hold that he is the son of God.

- The Messiah = Christ Jesus Son of Mary, messenger of God.

- The Anti-Christ = the false Messiah and great liar.

- The beast = Zionism in its Jewish and Christian fundamentalist forms, as well as extremist Islam.

- The false Prophet = Paul, the Popes, and everyone who claims to be Christ, or that Christ dwells within him, or sends revelation to him.

- The little horn = the abomination of desolation = the State of Israel. Since many Jews contend that they have been exiled from Israel by God's command and should not return until He commands it. However, the State of Israel was founded on an counter-religious, sectarian philosophy: Zionism.

- The New Babylon = modern Western culture.

- The new Roman Empire = Globalization.

Ok...i have SOO much more to say..but, flame me for now

What?! Paul a false prophet? And you have the nerve to trash the Popes? And your reputation is still good?

 

[mo.mentum]

What?! Paul a false prophet? And you have the nerve to trash the Popes? And your reputation is still good?

Paul was a staunch opponent of Christ before his conversion. And after it, he spread the faith like wildfire, according to his own understanding.

The institution of the Church was established by Paul, not Christ. Who is to say that this is how Jesus wanted us to worship God?

As for the popes, any man who claims to have divine right is a fake. Man is not perfect nor is he infalliable. To claim divinity is not only blasphemous but arrogant.

 

[mo.mentum]

The real fear you have is the pain at bowing down to a human form as God in flesh.
Well, you will bow with face in the earth at He who appears in flesh.

I'd rather bow to a transcendental God that I cannot see, nor can He die, nor is He associated in any way to His creation nor is anything in creation like Him. How can finite things and beings be anywhere near an infinite and eternal consciousness?

I prefer to bow to God within my heart, and not to man made ideas of what He looks like or WHO He might have been.

The problem with Muslims is the savagery aspect that they associate with some Allah,... which blinds you from the intelligence of God.

You are obviously ignorant of the Muslim religion. Forget what you hear in the media about Allah, the Qur'an and Islam. Get to know it sincerely and you will see it's irreconcilable with any form of savagery or superstitious belief. I'm not asking you to become Muslim or anything, just if you want to retort, at least know the facts.

The MAJOR POINT that I would really like to hear from Muslims is, are you going to face Christ and tell him He is not who he is when he appears?

Muslims await his Second Coming and will follow him when he appears. If there is argument between Muslims and Christians about the Divinity of Christ, it will be resolved once and for all on that day for he will unite both faiths into the pure and true religion. For now, can we agree to worship God the Eternal together? The rest is details that Satan wedges between our faiths to cause enminity. He's winning lately...

And yes i would have guts because i believe in God's eternal mercy and love for His creation.