How can the disciples generation be more than the generation which they lived?
Couldn't have expressed it better myself.
You've answered the question by asking the question.
"Ye" was the disciples' generation.
Exclusively.
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How can the disciples generation be more than the generation which they lived?
You are making even less sense than normal (for you).Couldn't have expressed it better myself.
You've answered the question by asking the question.
"Ye" was the disciples' generation.
Exclusively.
You are making even less sense than normal (for you).
You're talking about the Jesus who said things like the following, right?That's petty.
The day is coming when them who hold the post trib view, the no rapture view, the partial preterist view, the Amil view are going to get what they want - and have to go through the great tribulation.
For Jesus has given direction on how to escape the great tribulation and stand before the Son of Man, and you believe Him not.
There is no mention of "sudden destruction" or the "wicked" or the "day of the Lord" or a "thief in the night" or the "final day of this world" or the "day of God's wrath" or "antichrist's armies" or "God's Israel" or the "end of this present world" or "Jesus returns"...
...in Luke 21:22.
Jesus prophesies of the vengeance that will be visited upon the nation of Israel, and upon Jerusalem and Judaea.
History confirms it.
Christ's Olivet discourse is about the main Signs of the end of this world leading up to Christ's return. They parallel specifically the Signs of the Seals in Revelation 6.
The last Sign Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse was that of His coming and gathering of His saints.
The Preterist and Historicist seminaries often falsely teach against those above events, with instead trying to place the Olivet discourse back in history with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by the Roman army in 70 A.D. They 'prefer' to use the Luke 21 chapter to do that with, because the Matthew 24 and Mark 13 chapters are very, very clear as to the timing being about the very end of this world, leading up to Christ's return on the last day.
Those men have simply succumbed to Satan's ploy of trying to keep you from 'watching' and knowing the Signs of the end leading up to our Lord Jesus' return, which He gave His Church in His Olivet discourse.
You have a twisted way of thinking.This doesn't look to me like Jesus was interested in taking anyone off the earth in order to avoid tribulation. The only time that will be necessary is when His final wrath comes down by way of fire upon the entire earth which will be sudden destruction from which His enemies shall not escape (2 Peter 3:3-13 --> compare to 1 Thess 4:13-5:9)
And instead are focusing on the destruction of this present heaven and earth to take place a thousand years later, at the final judgment of the Great White Throne.
Let us reason together, Davy. Let's tone things down a few notches and discuss this calmly and in a civilized manner.Brethren, if you listen to those like jgr, you will definitely fall in a ditch.
Lord Jesus forewarned in His Olivet discourse, for the time of "great tribulation", about the idea of an idol abomination setup in the sanctuary in Jerusalem from the Book of Daniel.
Matt 24:15-23
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
KJV
What is written about that "abomination of desolation" spoken of by Daniel the prophet?
The subject of a false one coming, and placing an abomination idol inside the sanctuary at Jerusalem in false worship, is written of in Daniel 8:9-14, and in 9:27, and especially in Daniel 11:31, and in Daniel 12:11.
Dan 11:31
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
KJV
It is impossible to miss actually, there in the Book of Daniel!!!
Some seminaries wrongly teach that that "abomination of desolation" was fulfilled by Antiochus Epiphanes in 165 B.C. The main problem with their theory, and it's easy to know they are pushing a silly theory, is the fact that Lord Jesus forewarned of the "abomination of desolation" idol event in the temple in Jerusalem about 200 years after... Antiochus Epiphanes had already been dead!!! How could a Christian seminary miss that simple fact???!!! It just goes to show you that even some Christian seminaries are not immune to false teaching, nor is everyone that comes to forums like these on the up and up.
I never said that what Paul talked about in 1 Thess 5 wasn't God's wrath. You interpret my words the way you interpret scripture. Very poorly.You have a twisted way of thinking.
Man "needs" salvation. Not God.
The wrath spoken of in 1Thesslaonian5:9 is the vials of God's wrath to be poured out on the earth during the great tribulation. You are ignoring those vials of Gdd's wrath. And instead are focusing on the destruction of this present heaven and earth to take place a thousand years later, at the final judgment of the Great White Throne.
1Thessalonians5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
No, I am not. When Jesus returns, it is part of the glory of His brightness, by which Jesus also projects upon the abomination of desolation statue image that Satan will be incarnating at the time - turning it into ashes.You are ignoring Christ returning "in flaming fire" in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.
.
It was called "petty" for me to make an issue of the fact that the word "returns" is no where in Matthew 24:30....but it's not petty when an entire doctrine was formed by the addition of that one word.Then Jesus returns, coming in the clouds of heaven.
Them of the parable of the fig tree generation, the last days, who mock Jesus's return will not escape the judgement at the Great White Throne.If you compare 1 Thess 5:1-9 to 2 Peter 3:10-13 then it should be clear that the wrath Paul was talking about that would result in "sudden destruction" from which "they shall not escape" is the fire that will come down upon the entire earth, as Peter said would happen on the day of Christ's second coming.
Daniel 7:13-14, Daniel in the night vision saw the heaven side of Jesus ascending to heaven from the Mt. Olives. Jesus is in heaven right now, and at the end of the 7 years "returns" to this earth, specifically to the Mt. of Olives.It was called "petty" for me to make an issue of the fact that the word "returns" is no where in Matthew 24:30....but it's not petty when an entire doctrine was formed by the addition of that one word.
This passage points to Daniel's prophecy:
Daniel 7:13-14
In my vision in the night I continued to watch, and I saw One like the Son of Man coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into His presence. And He was given dominion, glory, and kingship, that the people of every nation and language should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and His kingdom is one that will never be destroyed
Matthew 24:30 ~ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.Other times "coming" and "clouds" were mentioned in the old testament.
Nahum 1:2-5 (Judgment on Nineveh - in the 600s BC)
2The LORD is a jealous and avenging God;And.......
the LORD is avenging and full of wrath.
The LORD takes vengeance on His foes
and reserves wrath for His enemies.3The LORD is slow to anger
and great in power;
the LORD will by no means
leave the guilty unpunished.
His path is in the whirlwind and storm,
and clouds are the dust beneath His feet.4He rebukes the sea and dries it up;
He makes all the rivers run dry.
Bashan and Carmel wither,
and the flower of Lebanon wilts.5The mountains quake before Him,
and the hills melt away;
the earth trembles at His presence—
the world and all its dwellers
Ezekiel 30:4 (judgment on Egypt also in the 600s BC) ~
3For the day is near,
the Day of the LORD is near.
It will be a day of clouds,
a time of doom for the nations.a4A sword will come against Egypt,
and there will be anguish in Cushb
when the slain fall in Egypt,
its wealth is taken away,
and its foundations are torn down.
This is ancient Hebrew literature which carries a particular connotation to judgment. That makes sense of how the generation Jesus spoke to in the first century was who Jesus was referring to (no mental gymnastics necessary). When Jesus spoke to them and said "YOU" (or "ye" - depending on the translation).....He meant them....not US, almost 2000 years and counting. That also makes sense of the references to that particular generation (in 30 AD) as being a "wicked and corrupt generation" (regardless of opinions that modern generations could bear that label).
Quoting linked article:Read more at: The Coming of Jesus: Coming on the clouds | That Ancient Faith
This brings us right back to the disciples asking "what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age" and Jesus saying that He would "come on the clouds with power and great glory." The first thing to take note of here is that the disciples as about the end of the age. ~
"The Coming of Jesus: Coming on the clouds | That Ancient Faith" https://www.thatancientfaith.uk/home/perma/1403252372/article/coming-on-the-clouds.html
https://www.thatancientfaith.uk/hom...log_copypaste&utm_campaign=blog_social_sharer
Brethren, if you listen to those like jgr, you will definitely fall in a ditch.
Lord Jesus forewarned in His Olivet discourse, for the time of "great tribulation", about the idea of an idol abomination setup in the sanctuary in Jerusalem from the Book of Daniel.
Matt 24:15-23
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
KJV
What is written about that "abomination of desolation" spoken of by Daniel the prophet?
The subject of a false one coming, and placing an abomination idol inside the sanctuary at Jerusalem in false worship, is written of in Daniel 8:9-14, and in 9:27, and especially in Daniel 11:31, and in Daniel 12:11.
Dan 11:31
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
KJV
It is impossible to miss actually, there in the Book of Daniel!!!
Some seminaries wrongly teach that that "abomination of desolation" was fulfilled by Antiochus Epiphanes in 165 B.C. The main problem with their theory, and it's easy to know they are pushing a silly theory, is the fact that Lord Jesus forewarned of the "abomination of desolation" idol event in the temple in Jerusalem about 200 years after... Antiochus Epiphanes had already been dead!!! How could a Christian seminary miss that simple fact???!!! It just goes to show you that even some Christian seminaries are not immune to false teaching, nor is everyone that comes to forums like these on the up and up.
Where do you see any reference to the judgment in 2 Peter 3:3-13? It's clearly referring to the physical destruction that will come down when Christ returns. That's why it's compared directly to the global flood in 2 Peter 3:5-7.Them of the parable of the fig tree generation, the last days, who mock Jesus's return will not escape the judgement at the Great White Throne.
These passages are not speaking of the same event. Daniel 7:13-14 is referring to His ascension to heaven which occurred long ago and Matthew 24:30-31 is referring to His future coming from heaven to gather His elect to Himself, which is the same event Paul taught about in 1 Thess 4:13-18. Jesus taught that His enemies will all be destroyed at that time (Matt 24:35-39) and so did Paul in 1 Thess 5:1-6.It was called "petty" for me to make an issue of the fact that the word "returns" is no where in Matthew 24:30....but it's not petty when an entire doctrine was formed by the addition of that one word.
This passage points to Daniel's prophecy:
Daniel 7:13-14
In my vision in the night I continued to watch, and I saw One like the Son of Man coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into His presence. And He was given dominion, glory, and kingship, that the people of every nation and language should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and His kingdom is one that will never be destroyed
Matthew 24:30 ~ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
It is telling you that there will be the millennium of a thousand years, to the day of judgement and perdition of ungodly men - i.e. the Great White Throne judgement is the day of judgement, when the ungodly will be cast into the last of fire.Where do you see any reference to the judgment in 2 Peter 3:3-13? It's clearly referring to the physical destruction that will come down when Christ returns. That's why it's compared directly to the global flood in 2 Peter 3:5-7.
It is telling you that there will be the millennium of a thousand years, to the day of judgement and perdition of ungodly men - i.e. the Great White Throne judgement is the day of judgement, when the ungodly will be cast into the last of fire.