Abomination of Desolation in Luke?

[jgr]

No, that 70 ad generation did not witness Jesus returning in Matthew 24:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Try again, you are limited to only one generation, who will witness the events associated with Jesus's Return.

Where in Matthew 24 doe Jesus begin referring to events to take place in the parable of the fig generation that will witness His Return ?

Jesus returns in Matthew 24:30. You have one generation to work with. What verse does that generation begin it's witness of events?

Who is "ye" in verses 32 and 33?

You have one answer to work with.

 

[Timtofly]

No, that 70 ad generation did not witness Jesus returning in Matthew 24:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Try again, you are limited to only one generation, who will witness the events associated with Jesus's Return.

Where in Matthew 24 doe Jesus begin referring to events to take place in the parable of the fig generation that will witness His Return ?

Jesus returns in Matthew 24:30. You have one generation to work with. What verse does that generation begin it's witness of events?

At least 4 generations. 3 more happen during the lifetime of the originals.

 

[Douggg]

Who is "ye" in verses 32 and 33?

You have one answer to work with.

Christians

 

[DavidPT]

Who is "ye" in verses 32 and 33?

You have one answer to work with.

Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:


Who is the ye in this verse referring to? Only someone living during the time Jesus spoke those words? As if only those back then would know that this indicates summer is nigh, but no one else after them would know this means summer is nigh? Why do some of you think that when Jesus used pronouns, such as ye, you, etc, that every single time He used them, He was only meaning those alive at the time, and was never meaning anyone in future generations as well?

Take your post I'm addressing here. You were addressing Douggg, and you used the pronoun 'you'. Let's assume the world doesn't end any time soon, and that a thousand years later someone has access to this same post. But the fact you were addressing Douggg a thousand years ealier, this means the 'you' you used can't also apply to the one reading your post a thousand years later, right? IOW, your argument doesn't apply to anyone living centuries later, that they too only have have one answer to work with, since you weren't meaning them, you were only meaning Douggg a thousand years earlier, because that is who your argument was addressing at the time, and not someone living centuries later as well.

 

[jgr]

Christians

So that includes the disciples, who were Christians.

 

[Douggg]

So that includes the disciples, who were Christians.

There have been Christians for the past 2000 years. Which is about 300 generations if a person were to take 70 years as a generation.

There is one generation that is the parable of the fig tree generation, that will witness Jesus's return and the events immediately prior to.

__________________________________________

For some reason you seem to think it is the worst thing in the world that we are the generation that the rapture will take place, the redemption of our bodies, the corruptible putting on incorruptible, and all of disciples you are reading about, Paul, Peter, John will have their bodies resurrected in same glorified manner.

And all of them of the reformation.

I don't get it.

 

[mkgal1]

No, that 70 ad generation did not witness Jesus returning in Matthew 24:


30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Not "returning" (that's not what Matthew 24:30 says). What appeared was "the sign of the Son of man in heaven" (which is what's written in Matthew 24:30).

If you're imagining something like what's pictured here....then, no, that didn't happen (nor was it ever prophesied to happen):

Image is from That Ancient Faith blog - full article here:
"The Coming of Jesus: Coming on the clouds | That Ancient Faith" https://www.thatancientfaith.uk/home/perma/1403252372/article/coming-on-the-clouds.html

 

[Douggg]

Not "returning" (that's not what Matthew 24:30 says). What appeared was "the sign of the Son of man in heaven" (which is what's written in Matthew 24:30).

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The sign of the Son of man appears in heaven first.

Then Jesus returns, coming in the clouds of heaven.

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

The disciples were on the Mt. of Olives, when Jesus ascended to heaven.

in Zechariah 14, Jesus returns to the Mt. of Olives, stands on it and it splits in half.

 

[DavidPT]

Not "returning" (that's not what Matthew 24:30 says). What appeared was "the sign of the Son of man in heaven" (which is what's written in Matthew 24:30).

If you're imagining something like what's pictured here....then, no, that didn't happen (nor was it ever prophesied to happen):

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The first thing to note is this, and that all of this is undeniable.

1) There is first the tribulation. That is obviously meaning what is recorded in Matthew 24:15-26.

2) Immediately after the events recorded in Matthew 24:15-26, shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

3) Then, meaning after all of the above things have been fulfilled first, shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven

4) and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory---meaning after everything recorded in 1), 2), and 3).

5) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other---meaning during the coming meant in 4).

What coming, in any sense, are Preterists, such as yourself, proposing, that occured after 1), 2), and 3), and yet involves 5)?

In light of all of that, can you then provide the Scriptures and or ancient history records, which Preterists use to support the coming in 4) and the gathering in 5)?

 

[jgr]

There have been Christians for the past 2000 years. Which is about 300 generations if a person were to take 70 years as a generation.

There is one generation that is the parable of the fig tree generation, that will witness Jesus's return and the events immediately prior to.

__________________________________________

For some reason you seem to think it is the worst thing in the world that we are the generation that the rapture will take place, the redemption of our bodies, the corruptible putting on incorruptible, and all of disciples you are reading about, Paul, Peter, John will have their bodies resurrected in same glorified manner.

And all of them of the reformation.

I don't get it.

Therefore since the disciples were included, they were in your fig generation.

As were and are the Christians in every subsequent generation since.

As they say, go figger.

 

[mkgal1]

Then Jesus returns, coming in the clouds of heaven.

The text says "coming" not "returns". It's a presupposition to read that as literal.

That article gave old testament examples of God's previous "comings" which were judgments against nations. One of the examples given was Isaiah 19:1-2 (concerning Egypt 718 BC):

This is the burden against Egypt: Behold, the LORD rides on a swift cloud; He is coming to Egypt. The idols of Egypt will tremble before Him, and the hearts of the Egyptians will melt within them. So I will incite Egyptian against Egyptian; brother will fight against brother, neighbor against neighbor, city against city, and kingdom against kingdom.​

 

[mkgal1]

There is one generation that is the parable of the fig tree generation, that will witness Jesus's return and the events immediately prior to.

"that will witness Jesus's return coming and the events immediately prior to."​

Correct, it's only one specific generation.

Jesus identified them directly here:

Matthew 23:35
As a result, you will be held responsible for the murder of all godly people of all time—from the murder of righteous Abel to the murder of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you killed in the Temple between the sanctuary and the altar.
​

......further, Peter described those on whom judgment would fall here:

Acts 2:40
With many other words he testified, and he urged them, “Be saved from this corrupt generation.”​

 

[Douggg]

The text says "coming" not "returns". It's a presupposition to read that as literal.

That's petty.

The day is coming when them who hold the post trib view, the no rapture view, the partial preterist view, the Amil view are going to get what they want - and have to go through the great tribulation.

For Jesus has given direction on how to escape the great tribulation and stand before the Son of Man, and you believe Him not.

 

[Douggg]

Therefore since the disciples were included, they were in your fig generation.

As were and are the Christians in every subsequent generation since.

As they say, go figger.

The disciples will be in the rapture/resurrection. They were not the parable of the fig tree generation.

 

[mkgal1]

That's petty.

The day is coming when them who hold the post trib view, the no rapture view, the partial preterist view, the Amil view are going to get what they want - and have to go through the great tribulation.

For Jesus has given direction on how to escape the great tribulation and stand before the Son of Man, and you believe Him not.

It's not petty, because it points out the difference between His "coming into glory" that's already occurred.....and a disregard for that in exchange for a separate future hope.

It's the difference between believing God has fulfilled His promises - and that Jesus is King...or, instead, believing that we have to be concerned about how to follow a supposed escape plan. I don't see that as petty.

 

[jgr]

The disciples will be in the rapture/resurrection. They were not the parable of the fig tree generation.

Certainly they were. When Jesus said "ye", that included them.

 

[Douggg]

It's not petty, because it points out the difference between His "coming into glory" that's already occurred.....and a disregard for that in exchange for a separate future hope.

petty - because in Hebrews 9:28, Jesus's first coming was to die on the cross and resurrected on the third day for atonement of sins. Jesus's second coming, His return to this earth from heaven where he now is, is for salvation, rescuing them who are looking for Him - the Jews who will be under tremendous persecution at that time.

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

[Douggg]

Certainly they were. When Jesus said "ye", that included them.

Please....just stop.

The parable of the fig tree generation to witness Jesus's Second coming, and the events right prior to will not pass away - without witnessing those events. The disciples are long long gone.

 

[jgr]

Please....just stop.

The parable of the fig tree generation to witness Jesus's Second coming, and the events right prior to will not pass away - without witnessing those events. The disciples are long long gone.

I'll stop when you agree that "ye" meant "ye".

And that it therefore included the disciples.

 

[Douggg]

I'll stop when you agree that "ye" meant "ye".

And that it therefore included the disciples.

How can the disciples generation be more than the generation which they lived?

Are the disciples here to see Israel over there a nation again? And Jerusalem to be back in the control of the Jews?

The Romans controlled Jerusalem back in the generation of the disciples.