'Abomination' & 'Fornication' their meaning

[Cuddles333]

As we read through threads, we find these 2 words that just seem to be thrown into posts. These are not. 'catch-all words. They each have a narrow meaning. Especially 'abomination' which the ancient Hebrew word has 3 different meanings in severity.

We notice mostly when Homosexual and male cross-dressing is mentioned, that the English translation from the Hebrew 'abomination' is also injected. However, no one wants to appear ignorant on a media board (especially as large as this) but it seems that either so many posters are ignorant of these 3 Hebrew meanings, or, know of them but their worldly pride and animosity to the LGBT community blinds them so much that they just don't care.

The most important (spiritually severe) Hebrew word is TOEBAH. This word is translated into English as 'Abomination' and is found throughout the Levitical chapters of 18 & 20 and also Deuteronomy 22:5 where the Phoenician moon-god sacrifice practice of male/female cross-dressing is condemned.

Spiritually severe does not mean a severe Ceremonial infraction. TOWEBAH always means committing a great pagan idol infraction in the Old Testament where our subjects are concerned.

In Leviticus chapters 18 & 20 the way they were translated into English, leads the novice Christian to assume that these were private prohibitions instead of public stage religious acts. It is my belief that this was intentional on the part of the translators to eliminate the shock value.

The 2nd and 3rd Hebrew words that are also translated into English 'abomination' are SHEQETS and SHIQQUWTS- (shik-koots). These are the less severe of spiritual infraction and mean: filthy, disgusting, idol.


FORNICATION comes from the ancient Latin (Roman) meaning 'arch' under which the pagan male/female prostitutes would work for their gods and goddesses. In the New Testament this word is always
associated pagan temple prostitution. The novice may not understand this, but one who has studied the time and culture of that area knows that these pagan temples were as plentiful as todays fast-food joints. Constantine destroyed nearly every one of them in the 300s AD.

The mistake of allowing false teachers to misuse this word by making it a catch-all for anything a community deems sexually inappropriate at any given time, throws the meaning into chaos, and like misusing the Hebrew word TOWEBAH, makes the student appear ignorant.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So ?
If and when and where men (or women) commit abominations of any or all kinds with each other, it is sin worthy of death.

 

[Cuddles333]

In

So ?
If and when and where men (or women) commit abominations of any or all kinds with each other, it is sin worthy of death.

No. It is not TOWEBAH for any couple to make love to each other

In the Old Testament the worst severity TOWEBAH was always associated with pagan idolatry.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So ? Whenever a man, woman, or child sins, they die.

Unless Jesus dies for them. (i.e. they are born again, forgiven, called and chosen and set apart by YHWH).

He won't excuse someone, man, woman nor child
based
on misunderstanding YHWH'S Word.

 

[SkyWriting]

He won't excuse someone, man, woman nor child based on misunderstanding YHWH'S Word.

Not correct.

The only sin not forgiven is denying the Holy Spirit.

John 7:51
"Our Law does not judge a man
unless it first hears from him
and knows what he is doing, does it?"


Col 2:13
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;


John 7:24
Do not judge according to appearance

Deuteronomy 16:18
"You shall appoint for yourself judges and officers in all your towns which the LORD your God is giving you, according to your tribes, and they shall judge the people with righteous judgment.

 

[Sammy-San]

In


No. It is not TOWEBAH for any couple to make love to each other

In the Old Testament the worst severity TOWEBAH was always associated with pagan idolatry.

So fornication is not an abomination to God?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

In


No. It is not TOWEBAH for any couple to make love to each other

In the Old Testament the worst severity TOWEBAH was always associated with pagan idolatry.

Complete abomination, disgusting defilement, wickedness,
if woman with woman or man with man.
No exception.
It is sin. It is wrong. It is forbidden.

"For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people."

 

[mark kennedy]

As we read through threads, we find these 2 words that just seem to be thrown into posts. These are not. 'catch-all words. They each have a narrow meaning. Especially 'abomination' which the ancient Hebrew word has 3 different meanings in severity.

We notice mostly when Homosexual and male cross-dressing is mentioned, that the English translation from the Hebrew 'abomination' is also injected. However, no one wants to appear ignorant on a media board (especially as large as this) but it seems that either so many posters are ignorant of these 3 Hebrew meanings, or, know of them but their worldly pride and animosity to the LGBT community blinds them so much that they just don't care.

The most important (spiritually severe) Hebrew word is TOEBAH. This word is translated into English as 'Abomination' and is found throughout the Levitical chapters of 18 & 20 and also Deuteronomy 22:5 where the Phoenician moon-god sacrifice practice of male/female cross-dressing is condemned.

Spiritually severe does not mean a severe Ceremonial infraction. TOWEBAH always means committing a great pagan idol infraction in the Old Testament where our subjects are concerned.

In Leviticus chapters 18 & 20 the way they were translated into English, leads the novice Christian to assume that these were private prohibitions instead of public stage religious acts. It is my belief that this was intentional on the part of the translators to eliminate the shock value.

The 2nd and 3rd Hebrew words that are also translated into English 'abomination' are SHEQETS and SHIQQUWTS- (shik-koots). These are the less severe of spiritual infraction and mean: filthy, disgusting, idol.


FORNICATION comes from the ancient Latin (Roman) meaning 'arch' under which the pagan male/female prostitutes would work for their gods and goddesses. In the New Testament this word is always
associated pagan temple prostitution. The novice may not understand this, but one who has studied the time and culture of that area knows that these pagan temples were as plentiful as todays fast-food joints. Constantine destroyed nearly every one of them in the 300s AD.

The mistake of allowing false teachers to misuse this word by making it a catch-all for anything a community deems sexually inappropriate at any given time, throws the meaning into chaos, and like misusing the Hebrew word TOWEBAH, makes the student appear ignorant.

Ok let's take a look that this, first the word you put so much emphasis on:

Abomination (H8441 תּוֹעֵבָה tow`ebah) feminine active participle of H8581; properly, something disgusting (morally), i.e. (as noun) an abhorrence; especially idolatry or (concretely) an idol.

The first couple of times it's used are interesting, it's things people can't stand:

The Egyptians might not eat bread with the Hebrews; for that is an abomination H8441 unto the Egyptians. (Gen. 43:32)
Every shepherd is an abomination H8441 unto the Egyptians. (Gen. 46:34)
​

Ok, the Egyptians didn't like Hebrews or shepherds. No big deal so far, then there is this:

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. (Lev. 18:22)
​

And that looks a lot like this:

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.​

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. (Romans 1:25-27)
​

Which looks like this:

Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. (Colossians 3:5-6)
​

Which looks like this:

For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, H8441 even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people. (Lev. 18:29)
​

Do you get the idea this is something kind of serious?

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Sammy-San]

Complete abomination, disgusting defilement, wickedness,
if woman with woman or man with man.
No exception.
It is sin. It is wrong. It is forbidden.

"For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people."

Isn't fornication all of those things too?

 

[Cuddles333]

Wait about one week. Come back and read the OP again slowly. This is a check against the mind being blinded (2Cor. 4:4) and the ones who make this self discovery are surprised it happened to them. At this point they are able to better understand meanings such as the ones in the OP.

 

[-V-]

TOWEBAH always means committing a great pagan idol infraction in the Old Testament where our subjects are concerned.

No it does NOT always mean a pagan idol infraction.

Deuteronomy 24:4 - "then her former husband who sent her away is not allowed to take her again to be his wife, since she has been defiled; for that is an abomination before the Lord"

In that verse, "abomination" is "tow`ebah". Yet that verse has NOTHING to do with pagan idols, it is about divorce law.

You've tried this before as well as your "fornication" argument in a debate here:
Formal Debate: Neither the Old nor New Testament address the LGBT subject

Your argument didn't work there, and it still doesn't work.

This is a check against the mind being blinded (2Cor. 4:4)

Yeah, you tried this there, too. When you failed to make your point, you just pulled out this, "well you're just blind" comment. Quite convenient to hide behind that, isn't it.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

As we read through threads, we find these 2 words that just seem to be thrown into posts.

Why do you even post on a Christian forum ?
A forum declared Christian,
thus opposed to abominations and fornications and perversions
and all and any kind of sin and sinfulness and wickednesses ?

 

[Cuddles333]

No it does NOT always mean a pagan idol infraction.

Deuteronomy 24:4 - "then her former husband who sent her away is not allowed to take her again to be his wife, since she has been defiled; for that is an abomination before the Lord"

In that verse, "abomination" is "tow`ebah". Yet that verse has NOTHING to do with pagan idols, it is about divorce law.

You've tried this before as well as your "fornication" argument in a debate here:
Formal Debate: Neither the Old nor New Testament address the LGBT subject

Your argument didn't work there, and it still doesn't work.


Yeah, you tried this there, too. When you failed to make your point, you just pulled out this, "well you're just blind" comment. Quite convenient to hide behind that, isn't it.

It may take readers of that debate a while to get over their shock. When they do, they will either go back to their 'hardness of heart' or they will feel surprised that they were able to be duped into understanding things the way they did. As I said in the OP, when we discuss (towebah) it is nearly always involved with the LGBT subject and ancient pagan temple prostitution.... 'where our subjects are concerned. '

There is no escaping the truth. Even when one runs to passages of scripture that contain (towebah) such as Deut. 24:1-4 we feel the force. According to a famous Bible commentator, the ancient Jews say that the reason it was (towebah) for a Jewish man to take his wife back after these conditions, was because the Egyptians were doing this on a wholesale basis. Therefore it was more spiritually severe for the Jewish men to copy them.

 

[-V-]

It may take readers of that debate a while to get over their shock. When they do, they will either go back to their 'hardness of heart' or they will feel surprised that they were able to be duped into understanding things the way they did.

Yeah, there's another of those "whoever disagrees with me is just blind" statements.

As I said in the OP, when we discuss (towebah) it is nearly always involved with the LGBT subject and ancient pagan temple prostitution.... 'where our subjects are concerned. '

LOL!! First you claimed it "always" (you even underlined it) was about pagan idol practices. And suddenly now it's "nearly" always. It only takes ONE example of the word used differently to blow your argument out of the water.

There is no escaping the truth. Even when one runs to passages of scripture that contain (towebah) such as Deut. 24:1-4 we feel the force. According to a famous Bible commentator, the ancient Jews say that the reason it was (towebah) for a Jewish man to take his wife back after these conditions, was because the Egyptians were doing this on a wholesale basis. Therefore it was more spiritually severe for the Jewish men to copy them.

"Spiritually severe"?? Are you kidding me? EVERY sin was "spiritually severe". That does NOT mean it has anything whatsoever to do with pagan idol practices.

 

[Cuddles333]

Please stop perverting my statements. I posted that the word (towebah) always means pagan temple prostitution [where our subjects are concerned]...... and I explained the 'subjects' revolving around the LGBT issues. Now, if haughtiness is a virtue to you, do you wish to bask in it's aura and declare that since the practices of the ancient pagans was condemned (male/male sex, etc.) along with their idolatry, then so also today is the remarriage of the woman you had divorced?

If you wish, you may challenge me concerning (towebah) in the Formal Debate section. I will not be as delicate with you as I was with Tree of Life.

 

[-V-]

If you wish, you may challenge me concerning (towebah) in the Formal Debate section. I will not be as delicate with you as I was with Tree of Life.

Who needs to? You already lost that debate.

 

[Cuddles333]

Then I suggest you not contribute to CF as you are showing yourself to be a troll and hurting the cause of CF.

 

[-V-]

Then I suggest you not contribute to CF as you are showing yourself to be a troll and hurting the cause of CF.

Lol, sure, cuz you say so.

 

[Dave-W]

In the New Testament this word is always associated pagan temple prostitution.

Not so sure I would say "always." Certainly inappropriate contentia was used that way in common Greek culture; but not so much in the Greek-speaking diaspora Jewish communities that comprised a major component of the leadership of each of the Greek speaking congregations.

inappropriate contentia was used there to denote anything that violated the Torah's (5 books of Moses) sexual mores and ethics.

 

[Dave-W]

Complete abomination, disgusting defilement, wickedness,
if woman with woman or man with man.
No exception.
It is sin. It is wrong. It is forbidden.

Certainly that case can be made from numerous places in scripture FOR MEN.

But there is only ONE verse that says that about women:

Romans 1:26
For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,

And then it goes on to talk about men again. This one verse is the ONLY place in all of scripture that even talks about lesbianism.