ABC's "V" Season 2 -- Alien Deception Continues

Gnarwhal

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CryptoLutheran said:
It's also very strange to start doing eschatology based on wackadoodle notions concerning angel sex and aliens and the television shows that talk about extraterrestrial life. Can't we, you know, do our eschatology based on orthodox Christian teaching instead of making tinfoil hats?

-CryptoLutheran

*Wishful thinking* if only...
 
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Manasseh_

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It's also very strange to start doing eschatology based on wackadoodle notions concerning angel sex and aliens and the television shows that talk about extraterrestrial life. Can't we, you know, do our eschatology based on orthodox Christian teaching instead of making tinfoil hats?

-CryptoLutheran


..............rats........and I already wasted half a roll of foil,had it all sized to fit, just needed to tweak the point.

hey btw............can I borrow the "wackadoodle notions" phrase sometime ? or is it copyrighted ?

wackadoodle notions © 2011 CryptoLutheran all rights reserved
 
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son_flower

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SONS OF GOD ben elohiym does obviously mean angels in the following context.

Clearly in Job, Satan would not be with the SONS OF GOD approaching the Lord if they were merely men. And again in 38:7 where the morning star sang together and the sons of God shouted for joy is not fleshy men. The foundations of creation were laid before men were here.

Genesis 6:
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

It is presumptuous to say Moses would NEVER refer to angels this way. How else would masculine titled spirit beings then be referred?

the sons of God saw the daughters of men.... written as if men were seeing something new to them. And after that, after the sons of God bare the women children, there were giants, and mighty men which were of old,(perpetual).

And if God held Eve and Adam responsible for something the serpent did, then why so odd to hold these men and their daughters accountable?? The women did after all bare children, that would require some sort of human participation. God repented of making both man and beast on the earth not just men so who knows what all ungodly things Jude wrote of.
And He did spare Noah and his fam after all.

It's sounds perfectly plausible to me. Just like the scarlet beast that men fornicate with in Revelation. Mankind is nothing but evil I don't blame God one bit for creating hell.
 
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Gnarwhal

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B1inHim said:
Chuck Missler always says "don't believe anything I say until you have checked it with the bible" Acts 17:11. with thus been said, do I accept everything he says? NO! But i think his line by line expository studies of the bible are beneficial (just like any other commentary out there).

When I have been in the ministry for as long as Chuck and have made as big of an impact in expository studies of the bible as he has, THEN, I will be able to call him names like...

HOWEVER, using the word "crazy" in describing Chuck Missler is not only disrespectful to another Christian and the many different ministry aspects that he has to offer , but is also against CF rules of protocol.
Flaming and Harassment
? Do not insult, belittle, mock, goad, personally attack, threaten, harass, or use derogatory nicknames in reference to other members or groups of members.
http://www.christianforums.com/rules/#faq_rule_0

YouTube - Peanut Butter, The Atheist's Nightmare!

Love, Brother Jerry

Not to split hairs, but I don't think Missler's a member here, and I never said anything mocking or derisive of a member. I'm just repeating a nickname of his I've heard and read before, not one I made up. "Crazy" Chuck Missler, FWIW, the observations on that site seem to perpetuate the use of that nickname, IMO.

Achilles6129 said:
Now, that was truly funny :)

What exactly, pray tell, is amusing about it good sir?

Achilles6129 said:
I noticed you still haven't addressed the verses from Jude yet.

Address what? Jude 1:6? I don't think that says anything about fallen angels coming to Earth and having sex with human women to make some sort of hybrid.

Beyond that I think there's a reason that the Holy Spirit led the councils as He did to relegate the book of Enoch to the apocrypha.

..............rats........and I already wasted half a roll of foil,had it all sized to fit, just needed to tweak the point.

hey btw............can I borrow the "wackadoodle notions" phrase sometime ? or is it copyrighted ?

wackadoodle notions © 2011 CryptoLutheran all rights reserved

There's a 32% royalties fee.
 
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Achilles6129

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What exactly, pray tell, is amusing about it good sir?

It's amusing that you perceive yourself as both biblical and rational.

Address what? Jude 1:6? I don't think that says anything about fallen angels coming to Earth and having sex with human women to make some sort of hybrid.

It says they kept not their habitation, but left their estate. Where exactly did they go to? And why is the Hebrew for "sons of God" in Gen. 6 only used of angels in the OT?

Beyond that I think there's a reason that the Holy Spirit led the councils as He did to relegate the book of Enoch to the apocrypha.

Perhaps there's also a reason why the Holy Spirit led Jude to quote from the book of Enoch, ascribing the quote to Enoch himself:

"14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him." Jude 14-15

And here's the quote from the book of Enoch:

The Wesley Center Online: Book Of Enoch

"9 And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones To execute judgement upon all, And to destroy all the ungodly:
And to convict all flesh Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him." Enoch 1 1:9

So, you still haven't addressed Jude 1:6 in a satisfactory manner. Let's look at it a little more closely:

"6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." Jude 6

First estate, #746, arche,
1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
a) of angels and demons

Habitation, #3613, oiketerion,
1) a dwelling place, habitation
a) of the body as a dwelling place for the spirit

Vine's on oiketerion: "a habitation" (from oiketer, "an inhabitant," and oikos, "a dwelling"), is used in Jud 1:6, of the heavenly region appointed by God as the dwelling place of angels..."

The angels left their own habitation - i.e., their dwelling place. The only other habitation that they could come to is ours - i.e., away from the spiritual realm and into the physical. God and his angels appeared in physical form in the OT to Abraham.

Now, why don't you explain Jude 6.
 
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NJBeliever

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The Book of Enoch is not even necessary for this discussion. Period.

The Bible on its own establishes that angels did indeed take human women as wives and had children with them.

No one has yet to show where "bene ha'elohim" refers to human men in the Bible. All the references are to angelic beings. The responses in this thread are not adequate to address this thus far.

Furthermore, as I have asked if humans are reproducing after "their own kind" then what explains the giants seen throughout the Old Testament (i.e, Goliath, Deuteronomy 13, Og..etc.)?? Who are they and what is "their kind"?

And finally, if Noah being "perfect in his generations" does not refer to his actual lineage, then what does it refer to? What does that phrase mean?

Only by dancing around the text with statements like "I can't believe anyone would think angels slept with women" is the only option to avoid a substantive debate. I would like one dissenter to just show, by Bible Scripture, what the proper interpretation of these verses should be. All the remarks, jokes and opinions are ultimately irrelevant.
 
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Manasseh_

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The Book of Enoch is not even necessary for this discussion. Period.

Well a few of those that believe the same doctrine you do felt it was necessary to bring it up and implied that Jude read from it.

The Bible on its own establishes that angels did indeed take human women as wives and had children with them.
The Bible does the exact opposite and establishes that this would be impossible according to many scriptures having a bearing on this subject.

No one has yet to show where "bene ha'elohim" refers to human men in the Bible. All the references are to angelic beings. The responses in this thread are not adequate to address this thus far.
Genesis 6 in it's very context shows it to be men, because the whole issue centers around men's actions, men's sins, their wickedness and how God finally responds to their actions. No angelic beings are part of the context, never are mentioned or implied as being at least partly responsible for all this evil men are partaking in.............all this has to be implied by you and the doctrine, come now, when you have to suggest a different scenario that's not even in the content of the text (context) then a red flag should pop up really quick..........that's a no brainer. Gone with the Wind is a book about submarines and world war 2 ............?

Furthermore, as I have asked if humans are reproducing after "their own kind" then what explains the giants seen throughout the Old Testament (i.e, Goliath, Deuteronomy 13, Og..etc.)?? Who are they and what is "their kind"? [/quote]

Tall or large people are once again, not in the context of Genesis 6, the giants that are in Genesis 6 are in the hebrew "tyrants" "bullies" in other words wicked men that people followed, they were famous men MEN OF RENOWN not simply large people.
The text also said very plainly that the GIANTS were already present during those days then also women produced more of what Genesis already made plain, famous wicked men. That alone leaves no room for speculation and to suggest that fallen angels got married then sired mutant offspring, the "giants" were already here.

Your false doctrine will not allow you to accept this explanation or the truth of it, otherwise your whole premise would fail. You are a slave to what you believe in, truth doesn't make us slaves, it sets us free, in this case, it sets us free from deception.

And finally, if Noah being "perfect in his generations" does not refer to his actual lineage, then what does it refer to? What does that phrase mean?

You're not slow to bring up the hebrew bene ha'elomim but then on the other hand you take no apparent step in also going to the lexicon to get an understanding of "perfect" in hebrew........

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
Gen 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

The lexicon will also supply you with the meanings of the words "grace" "just" and "walked" with God.

Even in the english Genesis 6 still doesn't imply here that is about Noah's DNA (lineage) definitely because mankind was saved here because Noah chose not to do as those other men did, He is seen as a type or shadow of a "savior" and simply because he chose to OBEY his creator rather than join the wicked men of his day in their foolishness against God.


Only by dancing around the text with statements like "I can't believe anyone would think angels slept with women" is the only option to avoid a substantive debate. I would like one dissenter to just show, by Bible Scripture, what the proper interpretation of these verses should be. All the remarks, jokes and opinions are ultimately irrelevant.
A "substantive debate" is really impossible here, I've already brought up these same points and explanations before in this thread, the reason it's impossible is the very fact that you simply refuse any kind of explanation regardless of how sound it is as long as that explanation disagrees in any way with your belief, then it's at odds with your belief, hence it cannot be accepted on those grounds , so where we have a predisposed bias against any disagreement with the doctrine we can't have any kind of "substantive debate"

in the simplest way, it wouldn't make any difference whatsoever whether the explanations you receive are truth or lies, if they disagreed with your doctrine then they could not even be accepted as explanations. When noting at all can be conceded by either side in a debate, you no longer have debate, just another stand off.

You can never call "checkmate" here...........only "stalemate"



 
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Jipsah

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Oh I imagine when it is all said and done some of these people won't seem so crazy after all:p
Nah, they'll still be barking mad if the Lord tarries for another 10,000 years.

And Lord I know Im ready anytime you're ready to come for your Church:clap:
And if He isn't coming all that soon, and you're going to have to die, what then? Still ready?
 
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Jipsah

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It's really ridiculous of you to mock someone just because you happen to disagree with what they're saying.
Depends on what they're saying. If I tell you that St. Paul has returned from the dead and is trying to steal my 8-track player you'd be entirely justified in declaring me to be a raving loony. The nonsense about aliens and reptilian/human hybrids is no less ridiculous. While those who propagate such gobbledygook may not themselves be insane, the notions that they're peddling are.
 
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grabsuccess

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All I can say is that UFO's are real. I was in the U.S. Navy from HC-6 (a helicopter combat support squadron in Norfolk, VA) detached to the USS Mount Baker back in 1978.

There was a loud commotion and several people were yelling to get outside "you've got to see this". Upon going out to the small flight deck, we saw people looking in a certain direction and looked in that direction too.

To our amazement, there was a very huge silver-metallic cigar shaped and disk shaped UFO just stationary in the sky. I ran back in to get my binoculars. Through my binoculars the only added feature I could see were small port-like-round windows. You couldn't them without binoculars and with binoculars no other features besides the pin-dot small port holes could be seen.

After about 30 minutes, I (as well as the whole crew) saw a lone cloud drift toward the UFO and it finally covered it while still drifting. That was the only cloud in the whole sky, and just by coincidence the cloud was just big enough to completely cover the Space Craft. We continued to watch the cloud drifting anticipating it to reveal the UFO again; this cloud just kept drifting with no UFO being uncovered where it originally was in the sky.

That was the only UFO that I actually saw with my own eyes.

Now I have said that just to say that when you actually see UFOs with your own eyes you believe and stop scoffing at the idea of them being real.

In my view God has things in Heaven as well as Space Vehicles that we can't even imagine. As Satan was cast out of the Third Heaven, He most likely was allowed to acquire some of these Space Vehicles along with the corrupted Angels. I guess there might be times that you need to have physical things to interact with other physical things.

Anyway, people that have had near death experiences have said that Heaven or Hell, was more real than even this life.

There are references in the Holy Bible that sound just like the description of UFOs. During the Exile, (Exodus 13:21); (Ezekiel Chapter 1 and Ezekiel Chapter 10) to name just some examples.

During the Renaissance there are many paintings with what appears to be UFOs in them.

Examples: To find these just Google the term "renaissance painting with ufo"

"The Crucifixion" hangs above the altar at the Visoki Decani Monestary in Kosovo, Yugoslavia ~ it was painted in 1350.

"The Madonna with Saint Giovannino"

"The Annunciation"

That is just a few examples.

You can see these paintings at lithiumdreamer.tripod.com/ufoart.html or google the term
"renaissance ufo painting"

There continue to be many UFO sightings all over the world.

It is my view that the Fallen Angels will, when finally cast to the Earth, portray themselves to be benevolent aliens from another star system to fool the people on Earth into accepting them with open arms. This I believe is the Great Deception. How that ties in with the Antichrist I have no idea yet.

If you scoff at this idea, Google the term "who were the nephilim" and you will see a lot of Biblical references to these fallen angels.

Remember the groundbreaking book "The Chariot of the Gods"? If you have ever read books on the topic
of UFOs you will uncover evidence for them in the past as well as the present. UFOs are real, and I do not think any government from our Earth have this kind of technology.

So, yes the movie "V" can be thought of as a preview of what is coming to this Earth, only at that time it will be for real.

Has anybody ever thought that during the so-called Rapture that those people that are raised from the dead in their new resurrection bodies and those which are translated alive - just might not be able to fly like Superman? I propose that Jesus/Yeshua will furnish a way to get these resurrected but yet physical still bodied people a way to fly through space to the Third Heaven.

Again, we might have physical, translated, and resurrection bodies one day, but that does not mean we will be like Superman flying around, or little gods either for that matter; we will be immortal than with incorruptible bodies. Yes, we will be translated people made righteous because of what Jesus/Yeshua did on the cross; but not able to just zoom through space without some physical means like for instance real Space Craft set aside for this purpose.

Can I defend this scripturally, it would be pretty vague. There are many seeming references to UFOs or Space Craft being used in the Bible and we know of reports of sightings all over the world of these Space Vehicles or like me you might have seen one yourself.

This all might seem like fantasy to some, all I ask is that people keep an open mind to some things. My premise starts with - I actually saw a UFO in broad daylight along with numerous shipmates, so I do believe that UFOs exist; I know what I saw with my own eyes. There are reports, photos, films, and testimonies from sitings all over the world. I just go a step further and suggests that God has things we don't even know about in Heaven, maybe the Devil took some of these things along with his third of former angelic beings. That would include what we perceive as vehicles that can fly through space, and fly through our atmosphere, as well as land sometimes on the Earth, or even crash.
 
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