- May 28, 2018
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Before I begin, I want to mention that the reason I identify myself as Reformed is not because I agree with them, but that what they believe more closely resembles what I believe than any other theological line does. Please do not judge what I mean to write by the nomenclature.
There is something that has been obvious to me for years, yet I am still unable to get it into words, and I feel like it would be very useful in understanding and debate, concerning the matter of Predestination and Free Will. I will try again now to get it into words.
(One poster here has said something to the effect that if we could drop the notion of free will, and simply call it will, assuming whatever is true about it is true, instead of insisting on words that we spend hours arguing over, such as "free". I wish I could find it, because it was useful to me.)
My attempt here is to make it plain that there is no need of some 'point of tension' between the two (Predestination vs. Free Will). What we do and what God does work together in perfect fact (I would say "in perfect harmony", but that would imply, in the minds of some, willful cooperation (i.e. obedience or at least good intention) on our part.). What God intends does not at some point let off to allow us to operate. To perhaps make it more plain, what we do, is part of what God is doing (whether through obedience or disobedience, or if some reader here supposes, even through no relation to cooperation or opposition to God).
Regardless of means, motive or method, we do choose and we do act, however limited in scope or influence our choices may be; we do WILL to do what we choose to do. Whatever else happens outside of the scope of our intentions or influence is still going to happen, and like what we as agents choose and do, is replete with the will, choices and intentions of other agents --our part is no different, no more 'in and of itself' than theirs is. And it is all governed by what God is doing.
We do what we do, and God does what he does. To arrange a point of tension between the two, in our minds, is to construct something that is not there. We may demand intellectual satisfaction but our point of view, our worldview, is irrelevant to the facts. ONLY God's point of view is relevant. To perhaps say that better, the facts do not depend on our point of view, but they do completely depend on God's point of view, or he is not God.
We do choose, willfully, and God does predestine, with purpose. And what is going to happen is indeed going to happen. --Is this not all within God's purvue? Is it possible for something to happen that God did not know? (I say that, without respect to by what means he knows --such is not the point of this OP).
So I say, (quite hypocritically, in fact), give up with Point Of View, and leaning on one's own understanding.
Go with God. --MQ
There is something that has been obvious to me for years, yet I am still unable to get it into words, and I feel like it would be very useful in understanding and debate, concerning the matter of Predestination and Free Will. I will try again now to get it into words.
(One poster here has said something to the effect that if we could drop the notion of free will, and simply call it will, assuming whatever is true about it is true, instead of insisting on words that we spend hours arguing over, such as "free". I wish I could find it, because it was useful to me.)
My attempt here is to make it plain that there is no need of some 'point of tension' between the two (Predestination vs. Free Will). What we do and what God does work together in perfect fact (I would say "in perfect harmony", but that would imply, in the minds of some, willful cooperation (i.e. obedience or at least good intention) on our part.). What God intends does not at some point let off to allow us to operate. To perhaps make it more plain, what we do, is part of what God is doing (whether through obedience or disobedience, or if some reader here supposes, even through no relation to cooperation or opposition to God).
Regardless of means, motive or method, we do choose and we do act, however limited in scope or influence our choices may be; we do WILL to do what we choose to do. Whatever else happens outside of the scope of our intentions or influence is still going to happen, and like what we as agents choose and do, is replete with the will, choices and intentions of other agents --our part is no different, no more 'in and of itself' than theirs is. And it is all governed by what God is doing.
We do what we do, and God does what he does. To arrange a point of tension between the two, in our minds, is to construct something that is not there. We may demand intellectual satisfaction but our point of view, our worldview, is irrelevant to the facts. ONLY God's point of view is relevant. To perhaps say that better, the facts do not depend on our point of view, but they do completely depend on God's point of view, or he is not God.
We do choose, willfully, and God does predestine, with purpose. And what is going to happen is indeed going to happen. --Is this not all within God's purvue? Is it possible for something to happen that God did not know? (I say that, without respect to by what means he knows --such is not the point of this OP).
So I say, (quite hypocritically, in fact), give up with Point Of View, and leaning on one's own understanding.
Go with God. --MQ