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Featured A warning about False Teaching in the churches!

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by BCsenior, Nov 13, 2019.

  1. setst777

    setst777 Active Member Supporter

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    Setst RE: Yes, obeying the command of Christ is to love others as Christ loved us is a major command. However, how can love be in our hearts if we are still enslaved to selfish ambition and what this world can offer us? You can only have one master.

    That is why Christ Jesus also commands us to ‘deny ourselves, take up our crosses and follow Him to be saved.’ The Apostles taught likewise.

    For instance:


    Luke 9:23-26 (NIV)
    23 Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. 24 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will save it. 25 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit their very self?

    Therefore we are commanded to be holy as God is holy, to live sanctified lives onto God, just as Lord Jesus taught.

    Romans 6
    22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.

    1 Peter 1:13-20 (NIV)
    13 Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed at his coming. 14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.

    2 Timothy 2:19-21 (WEB)
    19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription:
    • The Lord knows those who are his,” and,
    • Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord turns away from wickedness.
    As a New Creature in Christ by faith, YOU are responsible to:

    • to put to death the misdeeds of the body to live: Romans 8:12-13
    • offer ourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness: Romans 6:18-19
    • to live by and walk by the Spirit we receive so we won't fulfill the lusts of the flesh: Galatians 5:16
    • to sow to the Spirit to reap eternal life: Galatians 6:8-9
    • to live by the Spirit to fulfill the requirements of the whole law: Romans 8:3-4
    • to take off the old self and to put on new self: Ephesians 4:24-25; Colossians 3:9-10
    • to abstain from reaping to the flesh so we may enter the Kingdom of God: 1 Corinthians 6:7-10; Ephesians 5:1-6
    • to live as slaves to God by which we reap holiness leading to eternal life: Romans 6:22 . .

    Therefore, God sanctifies us through His Spirit that indwells the believer, but only as the believer is diligent to walk and live by the Spirit God gave the believer. See the Passages I listed above regarding the Spirit.

    Setst RE: The Elect are those who listen to Christ Jesus and follow Him.

    John 10:27-28
    27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

    John 12:25-26
    25 He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
    26 If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also. If anyone serves me, him My Father will honor.

    Setst RE: That would be nice, but what you suggest is not realistic. We have hundreds of different sects of Christianity and many pseudo-Christian sects all believing they are rightly dividing the truth of Scripture; yet, they all differ.

    Besides that, we have three major contradictions (divisions) of Gospel Doctrine regarding the Gospel within mainline Christianity.

    These three major division are:
    • Calvinism/Thomism/Augustine
    • Wesleyan/Arminian/Molinism
    • Tradition/Legalism
    Therefore, to know the Truth, you must put aside all man-made traditions and beliefs, and then with a humble mind and prayer, read the Scriptures in context, just as you would read any other book in context, so you know what is being explained. That is the only way one will be given the Truth from God.

    Why? The reason is that God reveals the Truth to the simple and humble.

    Psalm 25 (WEB) 9 He will guide the humble in justice. He will teach the humble his way.

    Luke 10 (WEB) 21 In that same hour Jesus rejoiced in the Holy Spirit, and said, “I thank you, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for so it was well-pleasing in your sight.”

    Lord Jesus was sent by the Father to preach the Gospel to the humble and poor in Spirit to fulfill God's promise to them - and they will listen...

    Isaiah 61:1-2 (WEB)
    (Jesus applied this prophecy to himself)
    1 The Lord Yahweh’s Spirit is on me; because Yahweh has anointed me to preach good news to the humble. He has sent me to bind up the broken hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and release to those who are bound;
    2 to proclaim the year of Yahweh’s favor, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all who mourn

    All through the Scriptures we are taught that God favors the humble and teaches and guides them, but He resists the proud.
     
  2. setst777

    setst777 Active Member Supporter

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    Many are called but few are chosen. They were not chosen because they did not humbly submit themselves to Lord Jesus and the Gospel.

    Luke 13:22-27 (NIV)
    22 Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. 23 Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”
    He said to them, 24 “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. 25 Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’
    “But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’
    26 “Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’
    27 “But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’

    Hebrews 4:11-14 (NIV)
    11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
    12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
    14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess.


     
  3. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    You must be surrounded by more hypocrites in your area than I have. Over the last 50 years I have been a believer, I have met very few who have not been genuinely converted believers who love Christ and put Him first in their lives.

    So you are preaching to the choir if you are preaching that to me!
     
  4. Woke

    Woke Member Supporter

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    The fact Christ said he could remove a Christian's name out of the book of life in Revelation shows salvation can be lost.

    The primary argument of the guy who started this thread has to do with that fact. He cited Christian beliefs about whether Christ's following experience the great tribulation as one reason some people who claim to be Christians don't believe that. I believe a stronger reason is because many people just fail to understand words and phrases. Instead they accept what others teach who also don't understand when reading certain words and phrases either. A blind ignorance of simple language spread across the population that God allows, because it serves his purpose. How so? It contributes to identifying individuals by their choices, what they really want and not by what they say they want. Because the only people who would believe there is no accountability before God are the people who don't want that.

    I don't even think they really believe it. But if they can get in groups that say that enough they feel better and safer that it just might be true. That's what God means when he said he allows them to believe a lie. It serves his purpose in separating people.

    The idea that accountability before God that shapes a Christian's actions means a person is saved by their own works is so illogical, and yet that's the argument they use to argue against accountability before God since sinners are saved by grace. Again, that shows their thinking, their intelligence level in understanding simple ideas, is lacking. Why? It has to do with a blindness caused by demonic ideas, as the thread's originator spoke. But it also has to do with God's purpose. Everything and everyone has to do with God's purpose, even those who are judged unworthy. All persons and all experiences are teaching God's chosen people the consequence of sin.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  5. Anthony2019

    Anthony2019 "Only Me!" Supporter

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    I think that when we become utterly convinced that we are the ones that are always right and that everyone else is wrong, we risk developing a grandiose and delusional perception of ourselves. When we become overzealous in impressing our views on others, expecting them to conform, we risk developing a messiah-type complex, which is certainly not the most desirable trait in reaching others with the good news.

    There are an estimated 2 billion Christians on planet Earth, who are familiar with the same scriptures. They have read them, studied them and come to their own conclusions on their meaning. The reality is that not everyone agrees on every aspect of theology and when arguments ensue, it is those who shout the loudest who think they are the ones who will be heard.

    No-one has complete monopoly of the truth, however much they like to think they do. We should always be prepared to listen to each other's experiences and discern what is right. The mind of God is much greater than our finite brains can take in and no matter how much we have learned, there is always more to be discovered.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  6. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    This sounds good from a human reasoning stand point; yet philosophical hodgepodge "just to be safe" doesn't necessarily stand on the truth. Jesus said he is the only way to the Father; but you know, ehhh..... he might be wrong, so I'll believe that all religions eventually lead to God.

    The "just to be safe" so "I won't take a side" ultimately doesn't convict anyone of anything. That's a problem.
     
  7. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    Sorry, but you're missing the point.
    Paul explains in several verses that:
    BACs have been set free from sin ...
    in that they do NOT have to sin any more!

    They are NO longer slaves to sin!
    They are NO longer captives of sin!
    They are No longer in bondage to sin!
    So, they have NO excuse to keep sinning!
    If they sincerely CONFESS and REPENT of the occasional sin, they're good to go!

    Meanwhile, BACs are also NO longer slaves of Satan!
    They are NO longer captives of Satan!
    They are NO longer held in bondage to Satan!
    Satan is ONLY "the ruler of this world (of non-believers)" (John 12:31, 14:30, 16:11)
     
  8. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    Total ridiculous nonsense and complete rubbish!
     
  9. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I have already examined myself according to Galatians 5:19-21 and I honestly hate all those things. Its not hard when you are born again.

    I don't know if you've seen my analogy of the born again experience, but I'll repeat it:

    It is like being born with the nature of a lion, loving to kill, drink blood and eat fresh meat. But the law says to not kill and only eat grass. Then that lion becomes born again into a divine new creature, a lamb. The lamb never desires to kill and loves to eat grass. Therefore that law to not kill and eat only grass is very easy for the lamb, but impossible for the lion.

    Every person on the face of the earth is either still a sinner or a child of God, but no one is both.

    Romans 6:
    How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

    6:5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man (nature) was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

    6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

    6:22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

    John 8:34-36
    34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
     
  10. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

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    John 15
    “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

    5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.

    9 “As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
     
  11. Ricky M

    Ricky M Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There's a big difference between thinking "I may be wrong" and thinking "Jesus may be wrong". And it doesn't mean you can't take a side, it means that being human you admit you may be fallible. I personally don't know of one who isn't.

    Too, there's the issue of consequences. What is the consequence if a pre tribber is wrong? What is the consequence if a post tribber is wrong? The post tribber escapes something he prepared for. The pre tribber faces something he didn't prepare for. That's when people will start questioning their faith, when they find things they just knew they knew are actually not what they thought they knew. Because they refused to consider that, being human, they might just be wrong.
     
  12. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There is only one truth; the Truth of the Author.

    Lord Byron, romantic poet of the early 1800’s, walked into a pub and sat down at a table by the fire. Sitting at the table next to him he overheard the heated conversation of two gentlemen discussing the meaning of a poem – one written by the poet himself. He listened with amusement as they debated over the meaning of the poem, both completely missing the point. Finally, he chimed in with the true meaning of the poem, introducing himself as the author. Even so they stood their ground preferring their own interpretations, and both argued with Lord Byron over the meaning of the poem.
     
  13. Zhen

    Zhen Member

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    um hello... may i know which part of the bible the following may be found:
    ‘The fact Christ said he could remove a Christian's name out of the book of life in Revelation shows salvation can be lost.’ ?
     
  14. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This first verse in Revelation shows that not everyone's name has been written in the Book of Life.

    Revelation 13:8
    All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    This next verse is to those in one of the Churches. There name is in the Book of Life, but they have sinned. If they do not repent and turn away from their sin (overcome), their names could be blotted out. But if they do repent and turn away from their sin, their names will not be blotted out of the Book of Life.

    Revelation 3:5
    He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
     
  15. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Have you read my post to Charismatic Lady about the works of the flesh and the fruit of the Spirit? Put yourself to the same test and see how you come out.

    You are quite right that we are no longer captives and slaves to sin, but the presence of sin is still with us. If you put yourself to the test of whether you are totally free from the works of the flesh even in the smallest detail, or are totally walking in the the fruit of the Spirit to absolute perfection, and come out smelling like a rose, then I will accept what you are saying that we can be sinlessly perfect.
     
  16. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    You are totally correct in the Scriptures you quote. We are totally free from the guilt, penalty, and power of sin, and we will be completely free from the presence of sin once we pass through death and are resurrected into glory and are no longer cumbered with our mortal body.

    Paul says that the problem is not him, but his mortal body. He is saying that the real person that he is consists of his new heart and spirit which desires after God's moral law in the inner man. But there is the law of sin and death in his mortal body that gets in the way of what his heart strongly desires.

    Yes, the inner person, born again of the Spirit of God is free from sin, and because God looks on the heart, He sees the person as totally righteous in Christ. But the mortal body has the sentence of death on it, and because the presence of sin is still in the mortal body, it has to die. If the mortal body is totally free from sin, it wouldn't have to die, but it is corrupted by sin and therefore is sentenced to death.

    "I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me" (Galatians 2:20).

    The fact is, that God sees our mortal body as already dead - crucified with Christ. This means that we will never be able to reform our bodies to be sinlessly perfect in its desires and urges. We can't reform something that is already dead. That's why Paul says to reckon ourselves dead. That is also the meaning behind mortifying the deeds of the flesh. It is through faith in Christ that we reckon the works of the flesh dead in us, and it is the power of the Holy Spirit that causes the actual deeds to fall away from us. No resolution that we can make of ourselves will work. If we try without the working of the Holy Spirit, all we have is self-righteousness, and that is unacceptable to God.

    So, the "right now" is the condition of our inner man who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit ("Christ lives in me") - totally free from sin.

    But the "not yet" is the condition of our mortal body with its desires and urges which we do what we can to keep it under subjection. The problem is that it won't lie still on the altar to have the knife of mortification plunged into it. It keeps struggling and roaring against the work of the Spirit in us, and will continue to do so until the day we die.
     
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  17. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    You are quite right in the Scriptures you are quoting, but you haven't addressed the questions I put to you.
     
  18. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    No, I most assuredly have NOT been saying that!
    Haven't you noticed even one of the many times I have written this,
    or, what is most likely, don't you believe it? ...
    It's all about the attitude of our hearts!
    Because, obviously, none of us can be "sinlessly perfect"!

    And, why would Paul give us so many explanations/promises that
    we are NO longer under the power of sin, etc., IF it was NOT true?
    C'mon, this is getting ridiculous!
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  19. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Now, you have said something right!
    So, the question is, how can you differentiate between someone whose heart is right and whose heart isn't? Seeing that man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart.

    The truth is that we can't know, because sincere believers and hypocrites conduct themselves in exactly the same ways so that one cannot tell them apart. In actual fact, hypocrites can appear to be more spiritual, moral, holy, faithful to their church, good members, deacons, pastors, etc., than sincere believers.

    So, your posts could appear to be the "scatter-gun" approach to shoot at everyone in the hope that you will hit some hypocrites in the process, and that sincere believers are just unfortunate collateral.
     
  20. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    Oscarrr,
    It's an absolute travesty that you pass yourself off as pentecostal.
    Chow.
     
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