A Very Valid Point

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Im only going to write this once. If you don't understand it further conversation would be futile.
Bob Ryan believes all of the TC are written on the mind and placed on the heart of the believer, including the observance/ keeping of a specific seventh day Sabbath.
He also believes( correctly) that through the law placed within us we become conscious of sin.
He would agree you can only be a Christian if the law God requires you to keep is placed within you.
Do you understand so far?
So as Bob Ryan believed the law concerning observing a specific Saturday Sabbath is within you, and through the law placed within you, you become conscious of sin, he must believe every christian is conscious they sin by failing to observe a specific saturday Sabbath. Surely you can follow that
Yet at the same time, he and the SDA church accept as Christians people who have no consciousness they sin by failing to observe a specific saturday Sabbath.
The position is ridiculous. He contradicts himself
Now if you want to respond by not acknowledging That obvious absurd position, I will ignore you. I joined this website for serious debate not farce

Presuppositions,

<<believed the law>>
<<the law concerning observing a specific (law)>>
<<believe the law ... is within you>>
<<through the law placed within you, you become conscious of sin>>
<<believe every christian is conscious>>
<<(being) conscious they sin>>
<<sin by failing to observe a specific (law)>>

One by one ... are these presuppositions (conclusions) legitimate or not legitimate?

By legitimate, I mean, shown legitimate or not legitimate with, Scripture; not with logic. The presuppositions already supplied all necessary logic.

 

[Paul Yohannan]

You cannot "show" something "legitimate" without logic, because logic defines the veracity of ideas.

 

[Righttruth]

God never stipulated that Saturday should be observed as Sabbath day. He said seventh day after six days of toil should be a Sabbath day.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

God never stipulated that Saturday should be observed as Sabbath day. He said seventh day after six days of toil should be a Sabbath day.

Off topic.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

You cannot "show" something "legitimate" without logic, because logic defines the veracity of ideas.

Off topic.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Why are sinful passions aroused in people by the law if they live under it? Rom7:5

Please give us your answer.

 

[Paul Yohannan]

Off topic.

No, because your presuppositions cannot provide all required logic, particularly when their own internal logic is questionable.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Please give us your answer.

Well I could, but you can quote the Greek. Has That ability not given you the answer?
If not perhaps you need to look elsewhere to learn

 

[stuart lawrence]

Presuppositions,

<<believed the law>>
<<the law concerning observing a specific (law)>>
<<believe the law ... is within you>>
<<through the law placed within you, you become conscious of sin>>
<<believe every christian is conscious>>
<<(being) conscious they sin>>
<<sin by failing to observe a specific (law)>>

One by one ... are these presuppositions (conclusions) legitimate or not legitimate?

By legitimate, I mean, shown legitimate or not legitimate with, Scripture; not with logic. The presuppositions already supplied all necessary logic.

Paul tells us the law is not for the righteous but the ungodly and rebels
Hmmmm

 

[Righttruth]

Off topic.

That is a convenient presumption!

 

[Haramis]

One of the major problems with thinking that the Sabbath must be kept on Saturday in 2016, is that the "7th day" of the week today, isn't even on the same day as it was in Moses's time. That day got shifted around numerous times over the years.

 

[Stillicidia]

Some people don't even know to keep the Sabboth, you have to sympathize a little bit.
Shouldn't call them terrible people who aren't Christians because the don't follow a law they don't know about.
Then, consider that sabboth is a 7th day of the week, which switched around plenty, and that some people work on the weekends.
Still on sympathy, wouldn't you figure God would see Sabboth done on a day where your boss does not require you to work?
If you worked every day except Wednesday, and called that day Sabboth, and made that day Holy to yourself, and prayed and fasted on that day, does that make you terrible? There is good, and then there is God Good, and what may be evil to man may not be evil to God.
There is the law being written in your heart, but conviction does not happen until there is a question.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

No, because your presuppositions cannot provide all required logic, particularly when their own internal logic is questionable.

Beautiful. Only keep in mind, the presuppositions are not mine, but those of Stuart Lawrence.
So here you are giving the answer I (guided by the presuppositions themselves) was looking for.

Point here is, Stuart Lawrence blames okies like me and BobRyan that WE don't make sense while we are plain unable to find any sense in what this man is <stating>! Now you have confirmed it.

But I nevertheless through afterthought, thought, No wait, this man <states> MUCH that must be tested against Scripture. Pay Stuart Lawrence due attention, but allow his opposition also due opportunity to resort to SCRIPTURE for a fair reply.

There is much to be contemplated at the hand of Scripture! That I would like to see happen with this conversation. DV.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Well I could, but you can quote the Greek. Has That ability not given you the answer?
If not perhaps you need to look elsewhere to learn

See what I mean!
Who the heck is able to comprehend the depth of thought of this genius, Stuart Lawrence? I look to him and his ability to learn, and this, is what I get for an answer.

 

[stuart lawrence]

See what I mean!
Who the heck is able to comprehend the depth of thought of this genius, Stuart Lawrence? I look to him and his ability to learn, and this, is what I get for an answer.

Well if you want the detailed explanation I would have to copy/ paste it from a computer. But here is something to think about, if you are willing

If I said to you:
If you think of a pink rabbit God will condemn you to hell, what is the first thought that would come into your head if you believed me?

 

[stuart lawrence]

See what I mean!
Who the heck is able to comprehend the depth of thought of this genius, Stuart Lawrence? I look to him and his ability to learn, and this, is what I get for an answer.

BTW

I am certainly not a genius, you hold me in far too high esteem. But i do rely on the Holy Spirit to lead me into truth, as anyone else can if they choose to.
My IQ is poor

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Paul tells us the law is not for the righteous but the ungodly and rebels
Hmmmm

I agree 100%; I don't even have no <<Hmmmm>>. Now what does this fact tell us about your question, <<stuart lawrence said: ↑
Why are sinful passions aroused in people by the law if they live under it? Rom7:5>>. Do you claim that if people don't live under the law, that <<sinful passions>> are not <<aroused in people by the law>>?

With "sinful passions" I understand to be convinced of sin in one's heart. Therefore, Do you claim that if people don't live under the law, that they are not "convinced of sin in their heart"?

But let the Scriptures bring an end to such vain contemplation. It declares the Holy Spirit convinces the sinner of sins in his heart. Not the Law. Not the Law any longer! Not since Christ and "grace came"! Because now it is GOD'S LOVE which in one's heart is the LAW that arouses in the heart, soul and mind, an acute awareness of one's sin and sinfulness, and total reliance on God's grace for forgiveness -- forgiveness of both one's sins and, oneself!

So does the SCRIPTURES answer every one of Stuart Lawrence's quasi logical presuppositions. And prove them NONSENSICAL and, plain false. And so, with Scripture, is God's Law, vindicated, not annulled.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

That is a convenient presumption!

It is the most difficult if not the impossible thing for posters to stay on topic. It is proven in virtually every thread on internet forums, no matter what the subject. But Christian discussions are the worst by far.

See this post by myself, for example? If I ignored you, I would have stayed on topic.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

One of the major problems with thinking that the Sabbath must be kept on Saturday in 2016, is that the "7th day" of the week today, isn't even on the same day as it was in Moses's time. That day got shifted around numerous times over the years.

Scripture for your arrogation? NONE!
History for your opportunism? Nothing!
Assumption for your generalisation? A plenty!
Company in your loneliness? Aheeko! Sultsch! Shame.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Some people don't even know to keep the Sabboth, you have to sympathize a little bit.
Shouldn't call them terrible people who aren't Christians because the don't follow a law they don't know about.
Then, consider that sabboth is a 7th day of the week, which switched around plenty, and that some people work on the weekends.
Still on sympathy, wouldn't you figure God would see Sabboth done on a day where your boss does not require you to work?
If you worked every day except Wednesday, and called that day Sabboth, and made that day Holy to yourself, and prayed and fasted on that day, does that make you terrible? There is good, and then there is God Good, and what may be evil to man may not be evil to God.
There is the law being written in your heart, but conviction does not happen until there is a question.

You're worse than me trying to swat mosquitos at bedtime.

It's so spot-on, so deadly effective, just the Word Written, "The Seventh Day : Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD".

O yea, "given to man" -- The Man, the Son of Man, Lord of the Sabbath.

This is a true story. Once there was this tomato thief who was caught red handed, who appeared in court. Judge, So you stole the farmer's tomato's, ja? Plaintiff, No, joe onna; I'm no thief. Judge, pointing at a spurt of dry tomato pits, What is that on your shirt on your chest? Plaintiff, looking down on his chest, sees the pits, carefully aims with his middle finger against his thumb and, snipe! To the judge, 'N whe's jor proov now, joe onna!?
Unnecessary to say, the sympathetic judge let the plaintiff go with just a warning.