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Featured A Verdict in search of Evidence: (360 words)

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Dave L, Oct 9, 2018.

  1. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Most of what people believe about the end times today has no scriptural support. It comes from a theory based on what might happen if we insert a gap of indefinite duration, now thousands of years long and counting, between Daniel’s 69th and 70th weeks. And then recreate the Roman Empire, to place it in its foretold setting, rounding it out for the sake of detail.

    1. That would be to imagine a revived Roman empire. The same setting the original 70th week would have had if left intact.

    2. Then, instead of Jesus who died for our sins in the middle of the 70th week, as the angel Gabriel predicted. Ignore this, and turn Jesus into a future “Antichrist” ruling over the 70th week, now a tribulation 7 years long, thousands of years into the future.

    3. And then squeeze in a pre-trib rapture according to Margaret MacDonald’s fever induced visions of the 1800s. Even though scripture mentions only one rapture Paul says will happen after the resurrection on the last day.

    4. Then add a rebuilt temple, and return to animal sacrifice with red heifers, all the time assuming Ezekiel’s temple visions were blueprints for a third temple. Even though the book of Hebrews solidly rejects a return to animal sacrifices giving the temple spiritual meaning.

    5. And more, let’s say, Russia marching on Israel where ancient prophecies can come alive a second time. If, we sever them from their context and original historical settings. And turn spears into nuclear weapons and horses into aircraft. And Israel’s cattle, the reason Gog and Magog originally invaded Israel, now changed into oil and commerce. (They say their ignorance of this ever happening is proof it must happen in the future).

    All based on the idea of what might happen if we sever Daniel’s 70th week from the rest of the bible. And lift scripture at will, here and there to build a case around it. All of this despite the fact Gabriel presented the weeks in an adjoining fashion. Jesus fulfilled them in the first century, and scripture doesn’t mention a gap.
     
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  2. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    You said "Most of what people believe...."

    Do we really think that very many Christians give any thought to all of that very literal end-times imagery and calculating?
     
  3. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Millions are made each year in Dispensational books and movies. This is not true of any other persuasion.
     
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  4. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist

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    John 8:32
    And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

    Not satans counterfeits and lies
     
  5. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Not true of any other persuasion??
    Obviously we disagree about this, and that's fine. You are entitled to bring the issue to the attention of the members here.

    I just think that this is a niche issue among Christians, somewhat like the belief of some people in the Bible Code or that they've deduced when, exactly, the Second Coming will occur.
     
  6. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    People would benefit to not just park at Daniel Drive and Revelation Road and consider all Scripture when dealing with the end times. All of the other prophets and even the Torah, should be weighed in before conclusions are made. Deut. 30:1-6, as one SMALL example... has Israel being promised to be scattered into the nations, brought back and then have their hearts circumcised. Has this happened yet? I don't see where... so why isn't that factored in? Just some thoughts. :)
     
  7. eleos1954

    eleos1954 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    History does not have gaps, it continues. God knows the beginning to end and the end to beginning .... therefore ... makes no sense at all to insert "gaps".

    God Bless.
     
  8. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes, we are Israel with circumcised hearts (the new birth)
     
  9. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Millions made every year since the rapture frenzy hit, selling books and movies. What other persuasion has accomplished this?
     
  10. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If book and movie sales are a gauge, yes. Who hasn't heard of the rapture?
     
  11. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    For another thread and another time... but you might go back and look at WHO is being spoken to, all that was promised to happen, before assuming it is speaking of a Christian as you understand Christianity. By the way, if we are still in the nations (and we are) and the circumcision of the hearts comes about once whoever is being spoken of is taken back out of the nations... then is your reply accurate in that sense anyway? Again... please, another thread. Not trying to derail this one! :)
     
  12. eleos1954

    eleos1954 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Agree. All the saved are Israel and are Gods people and will live in the New Jerusalem when established here on earth by God.

    Revelation 21

    21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

    Amen!
     
  13. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If you learn first what the NT says about Israel, and then frame your conclusions about the OT based on that, it clears right up.
     
  14. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Except, this takes place in the New Heaven and earth. Jesus says his kingdom is not of this world.
     
  15. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Actually, I see it the other way around. We don't read the NT through modern English eyes and then try to interpret the OT through those eyes. You go back and understand the culture and read the OT through that lens AND THEN read the NT to understand true context. That's the problem Dave... I would be rich if I got $5 from every person who believed "Context" is the verse before and after. It isn't, context is ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that has an effect on what you are reading. Since the NT is the OT directly quoted or inferred 1/3rd of the time, and since it is a Hebraic document regardless of what language the NT was written in... then a modern English lens is not how we interpret Scripture. But, going back and considering the Hebraic nature of the writings, the Hebraic influences on the writers, and the cultural influences of the times, we can derive true context.

    Again... I am not trying to derail your thread. Sorry I said anything!
     
  16. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    How do you reconcile Jesus' description of the kingdom as spiritual, with the physical OT description? If you go with the OT you'll add to Revelation. If you go with Jesus, you will not.
     
  17. eleos1954

    eleos1954 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Correct. Amen
     
  18. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It's too long to explain in a post Dave. But I can walk through the feasts and add depth to your understanding of Jesus' work because he designed it that way. He told them, "the Torah and Prophets testify of me." We should be able to understand who and what he is by reading the OT because he said so. I will send you something via a message. Let's leave your thread for it's intended purpose.
     
  19. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    But the Jews were blind as bats without the NT and Jesus' interpretations of the Old.
     
  20. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No, that is a farce. I can show you in the NT where as many as 1/4 of all Jews in Jerusalem believed he was messiah. And, heck... Christianity in the first century was a Jewish sect and movement. So to call them blind is to undermine the entire NT. And be careful brother, God entrusted those blind bats with His word, right? (Romans 3:2) I sent you a message, had to break the info into 2 parts due to size. Blessings.
     
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