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A Torah Observant Perspective on Paul on the Law

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by HARK!, Mar 4, 2020.

  1. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

    Under the law your sins must be covered by sacrifice. You know what the law states. There cannot be any doubt that the law no longer applies. Since we no longer need to offer blood sacrifices. Remember if one jot or letter is annulled the law is annulled.

    It is impossible to deny that the law is no longer in effect!
  2. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

    A new Torah you say?

    Well here it is.

    Let us look to Jesus (HEBREWS 12:2)
    Let us have grace to serve God (HEBREWS 12:28)
    Let us bear Christ's reproach (HEBREWS 13:13)
    Let us offer our sacrifice of praise to God continually (HEBREWS 13:15)
    Let us love one another (1 JOHN 4:7,11)
    Eight "Let Us Not's":
    Let us not walk in rioting (ROMANS 13:13)
    Let us not walk in drunkenness (ROMANS 13:13)
    Let us not walk in chambering (ROMANS 13:13)
    Let us not walk in wantonness (ROMANS 13:13)
    Let us not walk in strife (ROMANS 13:13)
    Let us not walk in envying (ROMANS 13:13)
    Let us not judge one another in doubtful things (ROMANS 14:13)
    Let us not cause others to stumble (ROMANS 14:13)
    Three Ways to Live:
    Live peacefully (ROMANS 12:18; 2 CORINTHIANS 13:11)
    Live free from anxiety and undue care (1 CORINTHIANS 7:28-35)
    Live no longer in lusts of sin (1 PETER 4:2)
    Four Commands to "Love":
    Love your enemies (MATTHEW 5:44; LUKE 6:27,35)
    Love your fellow Christians (JOHN 13:34; JOHN 15:12,17; GALATIANS 5:14; 1 PETER 2:17; 1 JOHN 3:23; 2 JOHN 1:5)
    Love the brotherhood (1 PETER 2:17)
    Love your brother (1 JOHN 4:21)
    Two Things Not to Love:
    The world (1 JOHN 2:15)
    Things in the world (1 JOHN 2:15)
    Three Ways to Love:
    Fervently (1 PETER 2:22)
    With a pure heart (1 PETER 2:22)
    As brethren (1 PETER 3:8)
    One Person to Pray to:
    Pray to thy Father (MATTHEW 6:6; MATTHEW 6:9; JOHN 16:23-26)

    Three Things to Pray for:
    Your persecutors (MATTHEW 5:44; LUKE 6:28)
    For labourers (MATTHEW 9:38; LUKE 10:2)
    For one another (JAMES 5:16)
    Two Ways Not to Pray:
    Use not vain repetitions like the heathen (MATTHEW 6:7)
    Do not pray as hypocrites (MATTHEW 6:5)
    Three Ways to Pray:
    After this manner pray (MATTHEW 6:9-13)
    Ask, seek, knock (MATTHEW 7:7-11)
    Pray in the Spirit (JUDE 20)
    Four Things to Prove:
    Prove yourself (2 CORINTHIANS 13:5)
    Prove what is acceptable to God (EPHESIANS 5:10)
    Prove all things (1 THESSALONIANS 5:21)
    Prove accusations against elders (1 TIMOTHY 5:19)
    Two Commands to Rejoice:
    Rejoice (MATTHEW 5:12; ROMANS 15:10)
    Rejoice evermore (1 THESSALONIANS 5:16)
    Eight "Put Away's":
    Put away wicked people from the congregation (1 CORINTHIANS 5:13)
    Put away lying (EPHESIANS 4:25)
    Put away all bitterness (EPHESIANS 4:31)
    Put away wrath (EPHESIANS 4:31)
    Put away anger (EPHESIANS 4:31)
    Put away clamour (EPHESIANS 4:31)
    Put away evil speaking (EPHESIANS 4:31)
    Put away all malice (EPHESIANS 4:31)
    Six "Put Off's":
    Put off the old man (EPHESIANS 4:22; COLOSSIANS 3:9)
    Put off anger (COLOSSIANS 3:8)
    Put off wrath (COLOSSIANS 3:8)
    Put off malice (COLOSSIANS 3:8)
    Put off blasphemy (COLOSSIANS 3:8)
    Put off filthy conversation (COLOSSIANS 3:8)
    Twelve "Put On's":
    Put on Christ (ROMANS 13:14)
    Put on the armour of light (ROMANS 13:12)
    Put on the new man (EPHESIANS 4:24; COLOSSIANS 3:10)
    Put on the whole armour of God (EPHESIANS 6:11,13)
    Put on the bowels of mercy (COLOSSIANS 3:12)
    Put on kindness (COLOSSIANS 3:12)
    Put on humility (COLOSSIANS 3:12)
    Put on meekness (COLOSSIANS 3:12)
    Put on longsuffering (COLOSSIANS 3:13)
    Put on love (COLOSSIANS 3:14)
    Put on the breastplate of faith and love (1 THESSALONIANS 5:8)
    Put on the hope of salvation (1 THESSALONIANS 5:8)
    One Class Not to Rebuke:
    Elders (1 TIMOTHY 5:1)

    Three Things to Rebuke:
    Certain sinners (1 TIMOTHY 5:20)
    Rebels (TITUS 1:13)
    Works of darkness (EPHESIANS 5:11)
    Two Ways to Rebuke:
    With all authority (TITUS 2:15)
    With all longsuffering (2 TIMOTHY 4:2)
    Four Things to Rejoice in:
    Hope (ROMANS 12:12)
    Blessings of others (ROMANS 12:15)
    Suffering for Christ (1 PETER 4:13)
    Five Things to Remember:
    What you are saved from (EPHESIANS 2:11-12)
    Those who suffer (HEBREWS 13:3)
    Those who lead you (HEBREWS 13:7)
    Truth (JUDE 17,18; REVELATION 3:3)
    Backsliding, and repent (REVELATION 2:5)
    Four Things to Seek:
    God's kingdom first (MATTHEW 6:33; LUKE 12:31)
    God in prayer (MATTHEW 7:7)
    To edify the church (1 CORINTHIANS 14:12)
    Things above (COLOSSIANS 3:1)
    One Command to Stand Fast:
    Stand fast, and hold Christian traditions (2 THESSALONIANS 2:15)
    Three Things to Stand Fast With:
    Loins girt about with truth
    Breastplate of righteousness
    Feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace (EPHESIANS 6:14-15)
    Five Things to Stand in:
    Faith (1 CORINTHIANS 16:13)
    Liberty (GALATIANS 5:1)
    One spirit (PHILIPPIANS 1:27)
    One mind (PHILIPPIANS 1:27)
    The Lord (PHILIPPIANS 4:1)
    Eight Things to Think on:
    Things about your true self (ROMANS 12:3; 1 CORINTHIANS 3:18)
    Things true
    Things honest
    Things just
    Things pure
    Things lovely
    Things of good report
    Things of virtue (PHILIPPIANS 4:8)
    One Way to Think:
    Think soberly (ROMANS 12:3)

    Five Commands to "Submit":
    Submit one to another (EPHESIANS 5:21)
    Submit to God (JAMES 4:7)
    Submit to every ordinance of man (1 PETER 2:13-14; ROMANS 13:1-8)
    Younger ones are to submit to their elders (1 PETER 5:5)
    Wives must submit to their husbands (EPHESIANS 5:22; COLOSSIANS 3:18; 1 PETER 3:1-6)
    Twelve "Take's":
    Take no anxious thought for necessities of life (MATTHEW 6:25,31; LUKE 12:22-30)
    Take no anxious thought of tomorrow (MATTHEW 6:34)
    Take no anxious thought of defence (MATTHEW 10:19; MARK 13:9-11; LUKE 12:11-12; LUKE 21:14)
    Take my yoke upon you (MATTHEW 11:29)
    Take advantage of freedom (1 CORINTHIANS 7:21)
    Take the Lord's Supper in remembrance of Christ (1 CORINTHIANS 11:24-26)
    Take the shield of faith (EPHESIANS 6:16)
    Take the helmet of salvation (EPHESIANS 6:17)
    Take the sword of the Spirit (EPHESIANS 6:17)
    Take oversight of the flock willingly (1 PETER 5:2)
    Take oversight of the flock without thought of personal gain (1 PETER 5:2)
    Take a humble seat (LUKE 14:8)
    Eighteen "Take Heed's":
    Take heed that you do not alms to be seen by people (MATTHEW 6:1)
    Take heed not to despise little ones (MATTHEW 18:10)
    Take heed not to be deceived (MATTHEW 24:4; MARK 13:5; LUKE 21:8)
    Take heed what you hear (MARK 4:24)
    Take heed how you hear (LUKE 8:18)
    Take heed to walk in the light (LUKE 11:35)
    Take heed to rebuke and forgive (LUKE 17:3)
    Take heed not to get drunk (LUKE 21:34)
    Take heed not to surfeit (LUKE 21:34)
    Take heed not to be overcome with cares (LUKE 21:34)
    Take heed to yourselves (MARK 13:9; LUKE 17:3; LUKE 21:34; ACTS 20:28)
    Take heed to the flock of God (ACTS 20:28)
    Take heed lest you misuse your liberty (1 CORINTHIANS 8:9)
    Take heed lest you fall (1 CORINTHIANS 10:12; ROMANS 11:21)
    Take heed to your ministry (COLOSSIANS 4:17)
    Take heed that you destroy not one another (GALATIANS 5:15)
    Take heed to yourself and your doctrine (1 TIMOTHY 4:16)
    Take heed not to backslide (HEBREWS 3:12)
    Two Ways Not to Walk on:
    As Sinners (EPHESIANS 4:17)
    As fools (EPHESIANS 5:15)
    Four "Thou Shalt's":
    Thou shalt worship God only (MATTHEW 4:10; LUKE 4:8)
    Thou shalt serve God only (MATTHEW 4:10; LUKE 4:8)
    Thou shalt love neighbours as yourself (MATTHEW 5:43; MATTHEW 19:19; MATTHEW 22:39; MARK 12:31; LUKE 10:27; ROMANS 13:9; GALATIANS 5:14)
    Thou shalt love God wholeheartedly (MATTHEW 22:37; MARK 12:30; LUKE 10:27)
    Seven Things to Walk in:
    The Spirit (GALATIANS 5:16)
    Love (EPHESIANS 5:2)
    The light (EPHESIANS 5:8-9; 1 JOHN 1:7)
    Watchfulness (EPHESIANS 6:18)
    Christ (COLOSSIANS 2:6-7; 2 CORINTHIANS 5:17)
    Wisdom (COLOSSIANS 4:5)
    Honesty (1 THESSALONIANS 4:12)
    Eight "Thou Shalt Not's":
    Thou shalt not tempt the Lord (MATTHEW 4:7; LUKE 4:12)
    Thou shalt not kill (MATTHEW 5:21; MATTHEW 19:18; MARK 10:19; LUKE 18:20; ROMANS 13:9)
    Thou shalt not commit adultery (MATTHEW 5:27-28; MATTHEW 19:18; LUKE 18:20; ROMANS 13:9)
    Thou shalt not pray to be seen by people (MATTHEW 6:5)
    Thou shalt not steal (MATTHEW 19:18; MARK 10:19; LUKE 18:20; ROMANS 13:9)
    Thou shalt not bear false witness (MATTHEW 19:18; MARK 10:19; LUKE 18:20; ROMANS 13:9)
    Thou shalt not covet (ROMANS 13:9)
    Thou shalt not muzzle the ox treading corn (1 CORINTHIANS 9:9; 1 TIMOTHY 5:18)
    200 Miscellaneous Commands:
    Abhor what is evil (ROMANS 12:9)
    A bishop must be (see characteristics of, 1 TIMOTHY 3:2-7; TITUS 1:6-9)
    Abide in Christ (JOHN 15:4)
    Abide with worthy ones (MATTHEW 10:11-13; MARK 6:10; LUKE 9:4; LUKE 10:5-8)
    Accuse none falsely (LUKE 3:14)
    Add to Christian graces (2 PETER 1:5-7)
    Admit your own unprofitableness (LUKE 17:10)
    Admonish one another (COLOSSIANS 3:16)
    Admonish the unruly (2 THESSALONIANS 3:15)
    Agree with your adversary (MATTHEW 5:25)
    Allow no liberty to ensnare you to commit sin (1 CORINTHIANS 10:25-30)
    Allow no lust of evil in the your body (1 THESSALONIANS 4:5)
    Allow no cursing and blessing from the same mouth (JAMES 3:10)
    Anoint your head and wash face when fasting (MATTHEW 6:17)
    Arm your self with a mind to suffer for Christ (1 PETER 4:1)
    Avenge not yourself (ROMANS 12:19)
    Awake from death to light (EPHESIANS 5:14)
    Bear one another's burdens (GALATIANS 6:2)
    Behave like men (1 CORINTHIANS 16:13)
    Bid no false teacher "Godspeed" (2 JOHN 10-11)
    Bring proof of your repentance (MATTHEW 3:8; LUKE 3:8)
    Bring your children up in the Lord (EPHESIANS 6:4)
    Build up your faith (JUDE 20)
    Call the poor to your feast (LUKE 14:13)
    Children, obey your parents (EPHESIANS 6:1; COLOSSIANS 3:20)
    Cleanse the lepers (MATTHEW 10:8)
    Cleanse your hands you sinners (JAMES 4:8)
    Cleave to good (ROMANS 12:9)
    Collect just dues only (LUKE 3:13)
    Come out from among them (2 CORINTHIANS 6:17)
    Command and teach these things (1 TIMOTHY 4:11; 1 TIMOTHY 6:2)
    Commit the truth to faithful teachers (2 TIMOTHY 2:2)
    Confess your faults one to another (JAMES 5:16)
    Count it joy when you are tempted (JAMES 1:2)
    Cut off offending members (MATTHEW 5:29-30; MATTHEW 18:8,9)
    Deacons must be (see 1 TIMOTHY 3:8-12)
    Defraud not (MARK 10:19)
    Desire spiritual gifts (1 CORINTHIANS 14:1)
    Desire the milk of the Word (1 PETER 2:2)
    Despise not prophesyings (1 THESSALONIANS 5:20)
    Destroy none with non-essentials (ROMANS 14:15; 1 CORINTHIANS 8:13)
    Draw near to God (JAMES 4:8)
    Eat your own bread in quietness (2 THESSALONIANS 3:12)
    Earnestly contend for faith (JUDE 3)
    Edify yourselves with singing (EPHESIANS 5:19)
    Edify one another (1 THESSALONIANS 5:11)
    Enter the straight (narrow) gate (MATTHEW 7:13; LUKE 13:24)
    Examine yourself as to faith (2 CORINTHIANS 13:5)
    Exercise in godliness (1 TIMOTHY 4:7-8)
    Exhort servants to obey (TITUS 2:9-10)
    Exhort one another daily (HEBREWS 3:13)
    Fear not (LUKE 12:32)!
    Fight the good fight of faith (1 TIMOTHY 6:12)
    Follow peace and holiness (HEBREWS 12:14)
    Forbear one another (COLOSSIANS 3:13)
    Forbid not children (MATTHEW 19:14; MARK 10:14; LUKE 18:16)
    Forbid not tongues (1 CORINTHIANS 14:39)
    Forget not to share (HEBREWS 13:16)
    Forgive 490 times (MATTHEW 18:22)
    Forgive (MARK 11:25-26; LUKE 6:37; EPHESIANS 4:32; COLOSSIANS 3:13)
    Fret not in servitude (2 CORINTHIANS 7:21)
    Gird up loins of mind (1 PETER 1:13)
    Give place to wrath (ROMANS 12:19)
    Give your enemy a drink of water (ROMANS 12:20)
    Give no occasion to the adversary (1 TIMOTHY 5:14)
    Glorify God in your body and spirit (1 CORINTHIANS 6:20; cp. ROMANS 12:1-2)
    Grieve not the Holy Spirit (EPHESIANS 4:30)
    Grow in grace and knowledge (2 PETER 3:18)
    Grudge not against another (JAMES 5:9)
    Harden not your hearts (HEBREWS 3:8-15)
    Hate flesh-spotted garments (JUDE 23)
    Have no respect of persons (partiality, prejudice) (1 TIMOTHY 5:21)
    Have the same love (PHILIPPIANS 2:2)
    Have no fellowship with works of darkness (EPHESIANS 5:11)
    Heal the sick (MATTHEW 10:8; LUKE 10:9)
    Help propagate truth (3 JOHN 8)
    Humble yourselves (JAMES 4:10; 1 PETER 5:6)
    Husbands, love your wives (EPHESIANS 5:25,28; COLOSSIANS 3:19; 1 PETER 3:7)
    Husbands, be not bitter against your wives (COLOSSIANS 3:19)
    Instruct rebels in meekness (2 TIMOTHY 2:25)
    Intreat others according to 1 TIMOTHY 5:1-2.
    Judge not (MATTHEW 7:1; LUKE 6:37)
    Have faith before God for things not condemned in Scripture (ROMANS 14:22-23)
    Know how to control your body (1 THESSALONIANS 4:4)
    Lay not up your treasures on earth (MATTHEW 6:19)
    Lay up your treasures in heaven (MATTHEW 6:20; LUKE 12:33-34)
    Lay hold on eternal life (1 TIMOTHY 6:12)
    Leave your parents and cleave to your wife (MATTHEW 19:5; MARK 10:7; EPHESIANS 5:31)
    Lend, hoping for nothing back (LUKE 6:35)
    Lie not (COLOSSIANS 3:9)
    Lift up hands that hang down (HEBREWS 12:12)
    Look not everyone on your own things only (PHILIPPIANS 2:4)
    Look diligently not to fail of grace (HEBREWS 12:15)
    Look diligently lest any root of bitterness defile (HEBREWS 12:15)
    Look diligently lest any be a fornicator (HEBREWS 12:16-17)
    Look to yourselves not to lose reward (2 JOHN 8)
    Look for mercy unto eternal life (JUDE 21)
    Lust not after evil things (1 CORINTHIANS 10:6)
    Make a tree good or corrupt (MATTHEW 12:33)
    Make no provision for lusts (ROMANS 13:14)
    Make full proof of ministry (2 TIMOTHY 4:5)
    Make straight paths (HEBREWS 12:13)
    Mark troublemakers (ROMANS 16:17; PHILIPPIANS 3:17)
    Mark the unruly (2 THESSALONIANS 3:14)
    Marvel not if you are hated by the world (1 JOHN 3:13)
    Masters, be good to servants (EPHESIANS 6:9; COLOSSIANS 4:1)
    Meditate upon things of 1 TIMOTHY 4:15.
    Mind not the high things (ROMANS 12:16)
    Minister as good stewards (1 PETER 4:10)
    Mortify offending physical members (COLOSSIANS 3:5; ROMANS 8:12-13)
    Neither be of doubtful mind (LUKE 12:29)
    No man is to defraud his brother (1 THESSALONIANS 4:6)
    Neglect not spiritual gifts (1 TIMOTHY 4:14; cp. 2 TIMOTHY 1:6)
    Obey your leaders (HEBREWS 13:17)
    Offer the other cheek (MATTHEW 5:39; LUKE 6:29)
    Ordain no one in a hurry (1 TIMOTHY 5:22)
    Owe nothing but love (ROMANS 13:8)
    Overcome evil with good (ROMANS 12:21)
    Pass the time in fear (1 PETER 1:17)
    Pay your taxes (ROMANS 13:6)
    Pay just dues (ROMANS 13:7)
    Praise the Lord (ROMANS 15:11)
    Preach (MATTHEW 10:7,27; MARK 16:15; 2 TIMOTHY 4:2)
    Present your body to God (ROMANS 12:1)
    Provide things honestly (ROMANS 12:17)
    Provoke not your children to wrath (EPHESIANS 6:4; COLOSSIANS 3:21)
    Purge out the old leaven (evil influence) (1 CORINTHIANS 5:7)
    Purify your hearts of doubt (JAMES 4:8)
    Put others in remembrance of the essentials (2 TIMOTHY 2:14)
    Quench not the Spirit (1 THESSALONIANS 5:19)
    Raise the dead (MATTHEW 10:8)
    Receive (accept) weak brethren (ROMANS 14:1)
    Receive one another (ROMANS 15:7)
    Receive the Word with meekness (JAMES 1:21)
    Reckon yourself as dead to sin (ROMANS 6:11)
    Reckon yourself as alive to God (ROMANS 6:11)
    Recognize the truth (1 CORINTHIANS 10:15)
    Redeem the time (EPHESIANS 5:16; COLOSSIANS 4:5)
    Reject heretics (TITUS 3:10)
    Refuse to support young widows from church funds (1 TIMOTHY 5:11)
    Remind people of the seven things of TITUS 3:1-2.
    Render no evil for evil (1 PETER 3:9; ROMANS 12:17)
    Repent (MATTHEW 3:2; MATTHEW 4:17; MARK 1:15; ACTS 2:38; ACTS 3:19; REVELATION 2:16; REVELATION 3:19)
    Resist not evil (MATTHEW 5:38-39)
    Resist the devil (JAMES 4:7; 1 PETER 5:9)
    Restore backslider in meekness, considering your own life (GALATIANS 6:1)
    Run to obtain (1 CORINTHIANS 9:24)
    Salute none by the way (LUKE 10:4)
    Salute your leaders (HEBREWS 13:24)
    Sanctify God in your heart (1 PETER 3:15)
    Save some with fear (JUDE 23)
    Search the Scriptures (JOHN 5:39)
    Seek not eats and drinks (LUKE 12:29)
    Sell to help the needy (LUKE 12:33)
    Serve the Lord (ROMANS 12:1)
    Servants, obey masters (EPHESIANS 6:5-8; COLOSSIANS 3:22-25; 1 PETER 2:18)
    Set the least to judge (1 CORINTHIANS 6:4)
    Set your affections above (COLOSSIANS 3:2)
    Shake off the dust of your feet (MATTHEW 10:14; MARK 6:11; LUKE 9:5; LUKE 10:10-11)
    Show charity to other ministers (LUKE 9:49-50)
    Show yourself as a pattern (TITUS 2:7)
    Show four things of TITUS 2:7-8.
    Sin not (1 CORINTHIANS 15:34)
    Sing with grace in heart (COLOSSIANS 3:16)
    Shun vain babblings (2 TIMOTHY 2:16)
    Speak and do things in view of the judgment day (JAMES 2:12)
    Speak truth (EPHESIANS 4:25)
    Speak sound doctrine (TITUS 2:1)
    Speak no evil of your brethren (JAMES 4:11)
    Stablish your hearts (JAMES 5:8)
    Strengthen your feeble knees (HEBREWS 12:12)
    Strive together for the gospel faith (PHILEMON 27)
    Study to be quiet (1 THESSALONIANS 4:11)
    Study (be diligent) to show yourself approved (2 TIMOTHY 2:15)
    Support the weak (1 THESSALONIANS 5:14)
    See that no one renders evil for evil (1 THESSALONIANS 5:15)
    Swear not (JAMES 5:12; MATTHEW 5:33-36)
    Tarry one for another (1 CORINTHIANS 11:33)
    Tarry for power (LUKE 24:49; ACTS 1:4-8)
    Teach one another (COLOSSIANS 3:16)
    Teach no other doctrine that the truth (1 TIMOTHY 1:3)
    Tell your brother his fault alone first (MATTHEW 18:15-17)
    Trust God for your needs as you work (MATTHEW 10:9; LUKE 9:3; LUKE 10:4)
    Understand the will of God (EPHESIANS 5:17)
    Use not your liberty as an occasion to sin (GALATIANS 5:13; 1 PETER 1:16)
    Use hospitality without grudging (1 PETER 4:9)
    Warn the unruly (1 THESSALONIANS 5:14)
    Watch and pray (MATTHEW 24:42; MATTHEW 25:13; MARK 13:33,35; MARK 14:38; LUKE 21:36; EPHESIANS 6:18; COLOSSIANS 4:2)
    Watch in all things (2 TIMOTHY 4:5; 1 CORINTHIANS 16:13)
    Weep with others (ROMANS 12:15)
    Withdraw from disorderly brethren (2 THESSALONIANS 3:6,14)
    Withdraw from evil people (1 TIMOTHY 6:3-6)
    Wives of deacons must be (see 1 TIMOTHY 3:11)
    Wives, submit to your husbands (EPHESIANS 5:22; COLOSSIANS 3:18; 1 PETER 3:1-6)
    Work with your own hands (1 THESSALONIANS 4:11)
    Work, or do not eat (2 THESSALONIANS 3:10-11)
    Work out own salvation (PHILIPPIANS 2:12)
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  3. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    There was a transfer of the law, along with the High Priesthood; so it is written.

    Yahshua is our High Priest; however the Levitical Priesthood will make sacrifices in the kingdom to come; so it is written. We are to present ourselves a living sacrifice. At this time Yah's people are in exile, awaiting our Messiah's return, to rule the land.

    Not one jot. Just because you haven't studied the scripture for comprehension; doesn't mean that its' obsolete.

    I don't think that it's in your best interest to bicker, with you on this subject, in this forum. This is the Messianic forum. I would advise you to read the Forum Rules.

    By the tone of your posts, you don't seem to be interested in learning; but I would still embrace debating you on these issues in the general forums. I believe that Abba can still use you to his glory. When I expose your flawed arguments before others; perhaps they can learn from your mistakes.

    There is a fine list of threads, in the OP; where we can have this discussion for all eyes to see.

  4. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

    United States
    Before suggesting others need further temperance with an audacious mantle.

    Consider a first Love where chesed(loving kindness) fellowship during a conversation in oil is considered of value with lesser speech.

    Though you have shown a zeal for Torah study and instructional guidance. The lack of gentleness in a fruit of spirit shows where a need for armor of a scabbard(tanner work) hasn't been accepted during your walk in prayer.

    An increase in The Name of The Father, Son, and Ruach HaKodosh is what needs to be focused on by all readers here.

    While there are a bamidar(number) of furniture pieces that are constructed of timber and gold.
    There is an instrument of pure solid gold with a certain number of stars held in The hand of The Holy One where strength is found.

    Ask amiss and a son or daughter will find no answer to their questions.

    Blessings Always
  5. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

    United States
  6. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

    United States
    In answer to the underlined bolded.

  7. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    I haven't written a dissertation on the subject; but I do have plans for a thread on this subject waiting in the wings.

    Here are some of my notes:

    Ezekiel 43:

    19 And you have given unto the priests, the Levites, who [are] of the seed of Zadok--who are near unto Me, an affirmation of the Lord Yahweh, to serve Me--a calf from the herd, for a sin-offering." 20 And you have taken of its blood, and have put it on its four horns, and on the four corners of its border, and on the border round about, and have cleansed it, and purified it." 21 And you have taken the bullock of the sin-offering, and have burnt it in the appointed place of the house at the outside of the sanctuary." 22 And on the second day you do bring near a kid of the goats, a perfect one, for a sin-offering, and they have cleansed the altar, as they cleansed [it] for the bullock." 23 In your finishing cleansing, you do bring near a calf, a son of the herd, a perfect one, and a ram out of the flock, a perfect one." 24 And you have brought them near before Yahweh, and the priests have cast upon them salt, and have caused them to go up, a burnt-offering to Yahweh." 25 Seven days you do prepare a goat for a sin-offering daily, and a bullock, a son of the herd, and a ram out of the flock, perfect ones, do they prepare." 26 Seven days they purify the altar, and have cleansed it, and filled their hand." 27 And the days are completed, and it has come to pass on the eighth day, and henceforth, the priests prepare on the altar your burnt-offerings and your peace-offerings, and I have accepted you--an affirmation of the Lord Yahweh.'"

    (CLV) Isa 56:7
    I will bring them also to My holy mountain And make them rejoice in My house of prayer; Their ascent offerings and their sacrifices They shall offer up for acceptance on My altar, For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.

    (CLV) Jer 33:18
    As for the Levitical priests there shall not be cut off a man from before Me who offers up the ascent offering and fumes the approach present and offers sacrifices for all the days.

    (CLV) Zch 14:20
    In that day there shall be on the horse shades: Holy to Yahweh. And the pots in the house of Yahweh will be like the sprinkling bowls before the altar.

    (CLV) Zch 14:21
    And every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will come to be holy to Yahweh of hosts. And all who are sacrificing will come and take of them and cook in them. And no longer shall there be a trafficker in the house of Yahweh of hosts, in that day.

    (CLV) Mal 3:3
    And He will sit like a refiner and a cleanser of silver. And He will cleanse the sons of Levi, and purify them like gold and like silver. And they will come to be for Yahweh, bringing close the approach present in righteousness.

    (CLV) Mal 3:4
    Then the approach present of Judah and Jerusalem will be congenial to Yahweh as in the days of the eon, and as in former years.
  8. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States

    He came into this kadosh forum like a bull in a china shop. he could have debated me in any one of those threads, on any or all points. He didn't. I doubt that he even read those threads. I didn't report him; and I actually helped him. If I had continued to engage him on his terms, in this forum; I suspect that he would have ended up in trouble.

    Based on some of the things that you have said to me in Hebrew, before editing your posts; I'm surprised to see you speak of temperance. Here's a challenge for you: Perhaps you can draw me to marvel at the sincere depth of the love in your heart; in hopes that I would emulate you.

    Are we on Brother?
  9. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

    United States
    Before you chose to go on to such a task so called a dissertation I strongly suggest further exploration of The Terrain of Torah.
    While silver foundations give rise to a certain number of gold planks.
    So to are there a number of horns upon each altar.

    While the Mishkan instructions are given with a clarity of water. There are few that find sowing water to wind at the second altar of any value.

    The firmament of stars, sun, and , moon is about more than what the eyes see.
    There is washing in starlight while entering a gate. An expression further shown in new moons and Shabbat till fullness of weeks are revealed.

    Then of course the golden sun tempered with a floating hammer without sound.
    A place in time where even stones cried out and ask why.

    The mishkan is quite different from what ole shlomo(Solomon attempted to accomplish.
    Shlomo thought he could hire artisans from a strange land to hammer stone without The Lord Ha'Shem approval. To go even as far as to think distance would escape The Most Highs ears.

    Listen closely and you will hear the importance the Prophet Nathan offered in silver.
    Think of the comparison a craftsman in the spirit of knowledge and understanding offers.

    Work upon the Mishkan is a far contrast to working stone.
    There is a quiet stillness to soft metal that is rarer than its malleable properties.

    While your zeal is admirable.
    There are properties lacking in your faith with works youngin.

    Blessing Always
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
  10. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    Well that was very poetic; but I think that it would be more productive to study and understand the scriptures in concrete terms, before attempting to abstract anything from the abstract.

  11. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

    United States
    By concrete I hope you mean clay shaped by HaShems hands.
    With water and fire such a form shaped will Stand firm on a certain foundation.
    Of course there is that certain foundation of metal first offered freely like 4 horns.

    I've noticed how some fixate on a certain altar and priesthood yet ignore which side of the altar is met. And also which direction a ramp faces.

    Have you ever considered the 4 horns upon an altar of sacrifice similar to a thicket where a ram is caught?

    Just a thought
  12. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    I meant it on multiple levels. the primary level is that the ancient Hebrew culture was of a concrete mindset. it comes through in the language. They would express things in tangible terms.

    Western culture is built on Greek philosophy, which is abstract, words like love and faith, are not things that can be perceived by the tactile senses. I'm convinced that to truly understand the Torah, from the perspective of those who wrote it; that I need to break free of the Western mindset, and try to understand from a Hebrew mindset.

    On a second level it was a play on words, as in putting together an abstract on the Torah, derived from an abstract (avante guarde) poem.

    On a third level, even as the Hebrew mindset is used to express that which is spiritual; I must first grasp the tangible concept; before I can relate it to the spiritual.

    I had not; but it's an interesting thought.
  13. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

    United States
    The ancient of yamin to a hebrew is a living Word of promise divided with well spoken instruction.
    What's interesting is how sons and daughters ignore the count of horns and further perpetuate a rhetoric without the spirit of knowledge.

    What is tangible is first found in a persons ears like gold.
  14. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

    United States
    Perhaps a chumash yamin will come where respect is furthered in a persons walk.
    Where salt is looked at as reminder of the how to in life that softens water.

    When you are ready let me know about an orphans armor.
    Till such a taming(time)
    I suggest you study the Torah till you find someone to share a conversation in oil with.

    The nonsense of creating a faux opposition to continue a vain argument will only lead to weakness in spirit.

    If you wish to study and train in chumash.
    Learn first to bridle the tongue.

    Blessings Always
  15. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

    Yeshua's blood covers the sins. You want to remove His blood from your sins, or the process by which it is done?
  16. TreWalker

    TreWalker Walking Tree

    United States
    I hope you all can realize that by saying the law is no longer in effect it reduces the sacrifice of our Messiah to amount to nothing. Why did Yeshua die for the sins of those who died condemned under the covenant made through Moshe if the law is no longer in effect? And since when does redeeming a person from their sins under the law involve removing the law that condemns the sinner? How foolish. How democratic.... If a law condemns you, remove the law!!!

    If the law was no longer in effect Yeshua would have no reason to pay with his life for the sins committed by those given the law. The misnomer is that Yeshua's blood takes away the law. The fact is the law remains Holy, just, true and faithful to HaShem and will stand forever. Yeshua himself said he did not come to make it of no effect (Matthew 5:17) but to bring the law to it's complete fullness. He embodied the law within and made it's blessings a reality to all people, while completely removing the sins and transgressions committed to those it was given.

    We are not under it, it is not over us, it is within us and manifests in our daily walk with HaShem. It is his instructions and promises to all who believe. The coming of the Messiah did not do away with the Torah. No more than entering a courtroom and attempting to tell the judge his laws are no longer in effect because he now takes the seat of judgement and mercy. How foolish to do so.
  17. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

    United States
    The "you all" posters on the internet forums claiming the Torah(law) has no effect. Are essentially admitting their conscience is seared beyond repair.
  18. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

    United States
    Moshe was handed the Torah from The Most High.
    It's about a when in time that ole sh'aul mentions the "law of Moses.
    Strike a stone without consent and a person will receive a burden.

    A burden a majority of parents know better than to put upon their own children.

    There is no such thing as original sin.
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
  19. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

    United States
    יֹשֵׁב, בְּסֵתֶר עֶלְיוֹן; בְּצֵל שַׁדַּי, יִתְלוֹנָן. 1 O thou that dwellest in the covert of the Most High, and abidest in the shadow of the Almighty;

  20. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    Speaking of democracy, I put the question to a vote here: What Need I of Grace?

    It's unanimous!