a thought to ponder

[heatherwayno]

I totally believe in creation- evolution goes against what my God has done but i was just wondering what someone who believes in evolution would say about this.

If evolutuion is true- and the earth has been around for billions of years and humans have evolved from very primitve beings, why are there still babies born with abnormailities. Beings evolve to adapt and become more advanced than their ancestors. So, evoluiotn has had billions of years to get this right- yet still there are deformalities, people with genetic diseases. Just wondering how people would respond to what I feel is a strike towards evolution. (BTW- I am a teacher - I have had to teach evolution as a theory- which is in fact what is it). Also, if we evolved from ape like beings- why are they still here?

 

[michabo]

If evolutuion is true- and the earth has been around for billions of years and humans have evolved from very primitve beings, why are there still babies born with abnormailities.

Because of abnormal chemicals or hormones during development (e.g.: thalidomide), recessive genes which rarely express themselves, mutations, or genes which may be advantageous during other circumstances.

If you would like something more specific, can you give us a specific example?

Beings evolve to adapt and become more advanced than their ancestors.

There's no such thing as an animal which is more or less advanced. We have all been on the planet for the same amount of time, and so we are all equally evolved.

You may be thinking of the representation of human ancestors walking more and more upright, implying a direction, and implying that we are the end goal. But this is not an accurate representation of evolution in general.

Also, if we evolved from ape like beings- why are they still here?

If protestants evolved from catholics, why are there still catholics?

 

[heatherwayno]

Catholics are still here because they chose not to become protestants. Are you saying that apes are still here because they chose not to become humans?
That makes no sense!

 

[heatherwayno]

I understand that things sometimes go hayware- that their are abnormal chromosomes and genetic mutations causing offspring to be born with a defect- one would just assume that after billions of years- that beings would be perfected.

 

[ImmortalTechnique]

Catholics are still here because they chose not to become protestants. Are you saying that apes are still here because they chose not to become humans?
That makes no sense!

humans ARE apes. and it scares me that you are a teacher, if you are in fact a teacher. your post is riddled with spelling, grammatical, and logical problems.

if you are actually teaching EVOLUTION (as you claimed) then as a science teacher, you should know that a theory is about as good as it gets. you teach gravity as a theory, too, of course. and the idea that germs cause disease, etc.

 

[NamesAreHardToPick]

"Evolving" =/= Becoming perfect.

Keep in mind that the processes by which evolution occurs, natural selection, mutations, genetic drift, etc, are not conscious.

Also keep in mind that the definition of perfection is relative to the individual as a world without any trouble is hardly what I would call perfect, but boring. I personally like life's ups and downs, but that's just me.

 

[Baggins]

Catholics are still here because they chose not to become protestants. Are you saying that apes are still here because they chose not to become humans?
That makes no sense!

Humans didn't evolve from apes that are living today they share a common ancestor with them.

The animal that both humans and chimpanzees evolved from no longer exists.

An analogy would be you and your cousins, you are both descended from a common ancestor, your grandparents, in time your grandparents will die, but you and your cousins will still exist.

Do you follow?

 

[Athene]

Interesting. your profile says you are a teaching assistant to Kindergarten students .. . since when did teachers aids do any actual teaching and since when do Kindergarten students get taught evolution?

 

[Baggins]

I understand that things sometimes go hayware- that their are abnormal chromosomes and genetic mutations causing offspring to be born with a defect- one would just assume that after billions of years- that beings would be perfected.

Every child is genetically different to its parents due to mutations when the gametes were formed, in some children a mutation may bring adverse affects.

With out mutatuon there would be no evolution, but it also means that there will always be genetic defects in the human population.

 

[Baggins]

- I have had to teach evolution as a theory- which is in fact what it is (edit)

Evolution is a theory, and it always will be. A scientific theory is an explanation of an observation, in this case the diversity of animal life, it never gravitates to become a fact.

No scientific theory will ever be a fact or be proven, that is because that is dogma ( which is anathema to science ), and it disallows any subsequent evidence that may come along that might mean that a theory has to be discarded or modified.

No one will ever prove the theory of evolution, proof only happens in mathematics.

 

[JohnR7]

why are there still babies born with abnormailities.

This is a double wammie for evos. There are many, many more "bad" mutations, then there are benificial mutations. So, in order for natural selection to work, it must eliminate all of the bad and allow what little bit of good there is though. Evolution can not talk place without "good" mutations. At least according to the theory they call evolution right now.

So if evolution can not effectively eliminate the "bad" mutations, than what evidence do we have that natural selection is allowing the good mutations to go though? It is a nice theory, but in the real world, when the rubber meets the road, it does not hold air. The theory does not work in the real world, only on the drawing table.

 

[Byelotsar]

This is a double wammie for evos. There are many, many more "bad" mutations, then there are benificial mutations. So, in order for natural selection to work, it must eliminate all of the bad and allow what little bit of good there is though. Evolution can not talk place without "good" mutations. At least according to the theory they call evolution right now.

So if evolution can not effectively eliminate the "bad" mutations, than what evidence do we have that natural selection is allowing the good mutations to go though? It is a nice theory, but in the real world, when the rubber meets the road, it does not hold air. The theory does not work in the real world, only on the drawing table.

How does evolution not eliminate detrimental mutations? They'll still happen - the very fact that we have concepts like Downs Syndrome or Sickle Cell Anemia indicates that such things can and do recur, sometimes even in predictable ways.

Don't forget that humans can overcome many such debilities through technology and social structure. If a child has Downs, he or she can be offered extra support and special environments in which he or she can thrive despite the disability. A lot of people with Downs remain productive members of society.

In nature, this is not so. Retardation, just like genetic abnormalities that lead to missing limbs, poor eyesight, or bone deformity, is evolutionarily selected against - these members of the species are far more likely to die before being allowed to pass on their genes. Thus, the mutations which result in environmentally greater difficulties are "weeded out", while those which allow for environmentally better performance are gradually reinforced.

The question you should be asking is not why evolution still "allows" for such things to happen - evolution is all about change, not some arbitrary notion of progress, and some change is bad change - but why any compassionate creator deity would.

 

[dad]

humans ARE apes. and it scares me that you are a teacher, if you are in fact a teacher. your post is riddled with spelling, grammatical, and logical problems.

It scares you that people who are believers in God do not teach children that we 'are apes'??!!!! Ha. That is a scream.

OK, Christians, maybe we could help this poor guy here, who gets so scared. Many of us teach that 'some people actually classify man as apes'. Feel better now?

 

[dad]

Thats truly dreadfull. You are a teacher teaching science and evolution yet understand neither.

Where do you teach? I want to know if its a public school.

I would be careful revealing ANY personal info, even state or country if I were you. People get fired or arrested for being Christian, and practicing faith these days, when ratted out by some.

 

[michabo]

Catholics are still here because they chose not to become protestants. Are you saying that apes are still here because they chose not to become humans?
That makes no sense!

But Protestants came from Catholics, so Protestants must be more advanced! It makes no sense for there to still be Catholics!

 

[Edx]

People get fired or arrested for being Christian, and practicing faith these days, when ratted out by some.

Arrested?

 

[Split Rock]

I totally believe in creation- evolution goes against what my God has done but i was just wondering what someone who believes in evolution would say about this.

Evolution may go against what you would like to think your God has done. The idea that he created life that would kill and suffer, etc. is not in line with your concept of God.

If evolutuion is true- and the earth has been around for billions of years and humans have evolved from very primitve beings, why are there still babies born with abnormailities.

Abnormalities are due to a number of reasons. One is mutation... mutation is necessary for adaptation to the changing environments organisms must face, but can also lead to death or genetic disorder for individuals. Evolution works with populations however, and populations can evolve only because of the variants produced by mutation. Another reason is due to errors occuring during meiosis. Life is not perfect, but it works well enough. That is all that is required.

Beings evolve to adapt and become more advanced than their ancestors. So, evoluiotn has had billions of years to get this right- yet still there are deformalities, people with genetic diseases. Just wondering how people would respond to what I feel is a strike towards evolution.

There is no real "advancement" in evolution. Bacteria have been around for billions of years and they are just as good at what they do as we are. Populations must always to able to change in response to their environment. This means they can never be perfect, or perfectly adapted.

(BTW- I am a teacher - I have had to teach evolution as a theory- which is in fact what is it). Also, if we evolved from ape like beings- why are they still here?

Under what circumstances did you teach evolution? Do you know the differences between an Hypothesis, a Law, and a Theory?
See: Post #38 here: http://www.christianforums.com/t3116556-hot-diggity-i-need-me-some-proof.html&page=4


We did not evolve from modern apes, we chare a common ancestor with them. We did not evolve from any modern primate, mammal, or vetebrate. Yet, we share a common ancestor with all of them.

 

[dad]

Arrested?

Yes. That is possible. Fired, as well. I don't think if some teacher was in the public school sysytem in Canada, the US, or many other places, getting fired or arrested is a stretch if they really spoke what they thought was the truth.
Are bibles and prayer legal in many places, for example? Is telling what God taught in the bible about sodomites legal? Is even sticking a cross up in the class for a decoration, or some such even legal? How about praying with the class, and getting them all saved? How about showing Jesus of Nazereth, or some such at Easter? How about doing a Christmas play on baby Jesus, regardless of what the school board says? Just a little taste of the antichrist spirit that has taken hold these days.

 

[dad]

I totally believe in creation- evolution goes against what my God has done but i was just wondering what someone who believes in evolution would say about this.

I believe in creation too. I also believe that the ability to evolve was a part of creation. In other words, 6000 years ago in Eden, the dogs, for example that God created had the ability to adapt or evolve into many types of things in the dog family. Cats, for example also had this ability, and may have even (if the evidence was there to show that was how it happened?) adapted into sabre tooths, tigers, etc. So all evolution was recent, and started from Eden's creatures. Since they cannot take it any further back than that with science, all else is clap!!!

 

[heatherwayno]

Yes- I do actual teaching- just don't get to pick what I want to teach- I teach what the teacher tells me too. Also, I get bumped around to different grades. I was a sub for 4 years and taught alot of science then as well.
It amazes me that the only thing you have to contribute to this conversation is not an answer or defense, but only you trying to question my credentials. That in turn, makes you look uneducated- not me- nor will I lose sleep over the fact that people here have nothing better to do than pick out my spelling and grammar mistakes. Stop trying to make me feel inferior- becuase you won't do it- I have a God that I believe has died for me and created me which makes me worthy of more than your criticsm. I was just asking a question and did not say anything negative to anyone here until this point. I guess that is what is to be expected- I am in a thread full of non-christians who feel the need to be nasty instead of how Christians would have handled the situation- with understand and love.