A sitting member of congress calls for open defiance of the Supreme Court

hedrick

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Except for helping an escaped slave could result in prison and very large fines. What happens to Waters for encouraging sedition (Which is what she is doing)?
sedition
noun
se·di·tion | \ si-ˈdi-shən
\
Definition of sedition
: incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority

I think you'd fine it hard to convict on a charge of sedition. You can just as well argue that in only defending rights that are enumerated, the justices are committing treason because they're rejecting a basic principle of the US. But we should probably all deescalate our rhetoric.
 
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civilwarbuff

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Does the constitution define a "person" currently?
Not that I am aware of. My thought on that is that it never occurred to them that person could ever be defined as any other thing than a human being. Of course, since then, the courts have ruled that businesses do have many of the same rights as natural persons and therefore use the term 'corporate personhood' or something comparable.
Corporate Personhood: Everything You Need to Know
 
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durangodawood

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Not that I am aware of. My thought on that is that it never occurred to them that person could ever be defined as any other thing than a human being. Of course, since then, the courts have ruled that businesses do have many of the same rights as natural persons and therefore use the term 'corporate personhood' or something comparable.
Corporate Personhood: Everything You Need to Know
Which is weird.

But arent there other matters in which whats a person would need to be defined or assumed? Like the constitutionally mandated census for instance. If we count all "persons", does a pregnant women count as 1 or 2?
 
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civilwarbuff

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civilwarbuff

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By that standard, its hard to find anyone who doesn't think some sedition is justified.
Yep, see #125. Thomas Jefferson openly expressed his opinion that resistance to government was a good thing even so far as taking up arms to resist it.
 
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hedrick

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Except for helping an escaped slave could result in prison and very large fines. What happens to Waters for encouraging sedition (Which is what she is doing)?
I don't think abolitionists were prosecuted for sedition for expressing their opinon. If caught harboring a slave they might have been prosecuted, but for saying that slavery was wrong and should be resisted I doubt it. I'm not an expert on 19th Cent legal history, so perhaps I'm wrong.
 
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civilwarbuff

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Which is weird.

But arent there other matters in which whats a person would need to be defined or assumed? Like the constitutionally mandated census for instance. If we count all "persons", does a pregnant women count as 1 or 2?
You could probably do both and simply categorize them differently for different calculations like say projected population growth.
 
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civilwarbuff

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I'm not an expert on 19th Cent legal history, so perhaps I'm wrong.
I am not either but I bet you wouldn't want to say that in 1850's deep south.....unless you like tar, feathers, and rails.......
 
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hedrick

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Wikipedia summarizes the legal history of sedition on the US: Sedition - Wikipedia. My reading is that only advocating violent overthrow is currently sedition. Attempts have been made to prosecute other things, but they have been rebuffed by the courts.

The 1918 act is pretty scary. It included any criticism of the government. That was even upheld by the Supreme Court. Fortunately it was replaced in 1921 was laws with more limited scope.

If the Wikipedia article is complete, there doesn't seem to have been any law around the time of the Civil War. However I agree that in practice tar and feathers aren't necessarily prevented by the 1st Amendment.
 
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durangodawood

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You could probably do both and simply categorize them differently for different calculations like say projected population growth.
Why different if they are equally "persons"?

If they are both persons, then the census should count them both fully.

Further, and this gets into state matters, I think, there would need to a some sort of conception certificate to replace the birth certificate - for all the reasons we currently need birth certificates if we're talking about real "persons". And also death certificates for miscarriage - to rule out homicide.
 
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hedrick

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Why different if they are equally "persons"?

If they are both persons, then the census should count them both fully.

Further, and this gets into state matters, I think, there would need to a some sort of conception certificate to replace the birth certificate - for all the reasons we currently need birth certificates. And also death certificates for miscarriage - to rule out homicide.
It will be interesting to see how the medical profession reacts. There's already been at least one prosecution because hospital staff reported a miscarriage. If that happens a lot, it will have obvious effects on patients' willingness to get medical care.
 
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Aldebaran

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A Democratic leader calls for the public to disregard one of the three branches of government is a form of treason, is it not?

Co-Equal branches.
I'd like to see the reaction of some in Congress if Justice Thomas were to say, "To heck with the House and Senate! We're going to ignore them and overturn whatever laws they pass!"
 
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civilwarbuff

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Why different if they are equally "persons"?

If they are both persons, then the census should count them both fully.

Well, how old would it be? Male or female? Race/ethnicity? All questions on census forms.
 
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durangodawood

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Well, how old would it be? Male or female? Race/ethnicity? All questions on census forms.
Exactly. All relevant questions that would emerge from the designation "person". But really, those are easy to deal with compared to the other things I mentioned.
 
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durangodawood

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Easy how?
"compared to".

Ethnicity box can be checked just as easily before birth as the day after. Same with sex.

But the conception certificate and pre natal death certificates. Thats gonna be interesting.
 
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hislegacy

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"compared to".

Ethnicity box can be checked just as easily before birth as the day after. Same with sex.

But the conception certificate and pre natal death certificates. Thats gonna be interesting.

Can you please explain how that connects with the topic of the thread.
 
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civilwarbuff

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Ethnicity box can be checked just as easily before birth as the day after. Same with sex.
How?.....assuming the woman doesn't want to know (especially about the sex). How can it be checked easily before birth? Sex there are only 2 ways I know of; ethnicity there is only one....again that I know of......
 
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Belk

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A Democratic leader calls for the public to disregard one of the three branches of government is a form of treason, is it not?

Not if you read the constitution.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Levying War as Treason | Constitution Annotated | Congress.gov | Library of Congress
 
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