A serious discussion on...masturbation

[LouisBooth]

sorry christina I lost respect for your opinoions when you said all things should be done in moderation... So how many people can I murder before its too much?

RayK, so now you're advocating that we are animals? God purposly set us apart from other animals.

 

[JeTmAn]

A question to Christina about her argument...do you mean that all things that are not sin should be done in moderation, or all things period? Surely you don't think the Bible's laws for Christian living apply to those who live ungodly lives, do you? It's got nothing to do with them, they are completely different creatures.

 

[ChristinaMarie]

Originally posted by JeTmAn
A question to Christina about her argument...do you mean that all things that are not sin should be done in moderation, or all things period? Surely you don't think the Bible's laws for Christian living apply to those who live ungodly lives, do you? It's got nothing to do with them, they are completely different creatures.

Of Course I'm talking about things that aren't sinful!

Coming back with 'oh! so we can commit murder then!' is an example of extreme views. Black and white thinking.

Take alcohol for example. If I have a couple of glasses of red wine in an evening, that's fine. If I drink 5, then it's not, as I'll be drunk.

However, there are some christians who would lable moderate drinking as sinful, because they see drinking alcohol as sinful, period. (I have no respect for people who end a senetence with, 'period', BTW.) Such people are so closed minded, they try to stop any discussion between those of us, who think seriously about difficult issues.

Masturbation is not mentioned in the OT Law at all. If it were sinful, it would have been.

Love,
Christina

 

[ChristinaMarie]

Addendum,

If you check out Acts 15, you'll see the stipulations that the Jerusalem Church sent to the Gentiles. one of them was to refrain from sexual immorality.

How do you think the Jer Church defined sexual immorality? By the Old Testament, of course! No mention of masturbation there.

Christina

 

[Ray K]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
RayK, so now you're advocating that we are animals? God purposly set us apart from other animals.

The debate was over whether masturbation was natural. I think I demonstrated quite clearly that it was.

Also, are you suggesting that we are NOT animals? Because if you are, you are seriously deluded. In fact, that would have to be one of the most scientifically ignorant opinions I've ever heard someone make.

It's more likely that I am misunderstanding your meaning. Please clarify.

 

[Autumn]

Hmmm...I think that masturbation is wrong, but I'm not going to say that I haven't done it before (we all have hormones). There is a bit of lust (as far as sexual desire) in sex, but it isn't about pleasing yourself (or at least it shouldn't be), but rather about pleasing your spouse. When you touch...who are you pleasing other than yourself?

 

[Autumn]

Originally posted by Mandy
Let me ask a question here.

Is lust a sin?

Well, "lust" as in an inordinate desire or craving (definition from my Bible) is wrong because it is a disorderly and uncontrolled desire to fulfill self. However, in my "Oxford" dictionary lust is a strong sexual desire.

Let me put it this way...if you are out to please yourself...it is wrong. In sex, even though it feels good, it (the feeling good) should not be your motivation. Your motivation should be to love your wife or husband even in such an intimate physical act.

 

[Mandy]

Originally posted by Autumn


Well, "lust" as in an inordinate desire or craving (definition from my Bible) is wrong because it is a disorderly and uncontrolled desire to fulfill self. However, in my "Oxford" dictionary lust is a strong sexual desire.

Let me put it this way...if you are out to please yourself...it is wrong. In sex, even though it feels good, it (the feeling good) should not be your motivation. Your motivation should be to love your wife or husband even in such an intimate physical act.

I was referring to sexual lust, I guess I should have stated that.

I agree with you completely.
Impure thoughts and actions (looking at "adult material") are things that (more often than not) drive people to touch and these things are sin.

 

[JeTmAn]

Originally posted by ChristinaMarie


Of Course I'm talking about things that aren't sinful!

Coming back with 'oh! so we can commit murder then!' is an example of extreme views. Black and white thinking.

Take alcohol for example. If I have a couple of glasses of red wine in an evening, that's fine. If I drink 5, then it's not, as I'll be drunk.

However, there are some christians who would lable moderate drinking as sinful, because they see drinking alcohol as sinful, period. (I have no respect for people who end a senetence with, 'period', BTW.) Such people are so closed minded, they try to stop any discussion between those of us, who think seriously about difficult issues.

Masturbation is not mentioned in the OT Law at all. If it were sinful, it would have been.

Love,
Christina

I thought it was clear that masturbation is inextricably linked with lust. We know the Bible tells us lust is wrong. From there, it seems quite simple.

 

[LouisBooth]

"Also, are you suggesting that we are NOT animals? Because if you are, you are seriously deluded. In fact, that would have to be one of the most scientifically ignorant opinions I've ever heard someone make. "

animals kill each other for mating. Are you preposing we do the same? We are not JUST animals ( I think that might help) we are held to higher standards. I think this applies to all sexual topics.

 

[JeTmAn]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"Also, are you suggesting that we are NOT animals? Because if you are, you are seriously deluded. In fact, that would have to be one of the most scientifically ignorant opinions I've ever heard someone make. "

animals kill each other for mating. Are you preposing we do the same? We are not JUST animals ( I think that might help) we are held to higher standards. I think this applies to all sexual topics.

Ray K didn't understand this point (or pretended not to) when I explained it to him, hopefully he'll get it now.

Humans are animals, yes. But we are more. We are the only beings of high intelligence on the planet. Human life is the most precious thing in the physical world. And, for the most part, we act nothing like animals. Almost no other species mate for life, and none have such ornate ceremony as marriage as we do. This is merely one of a million such characteristics that set us apart from all other living creatures.

 

[Ray K]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
animals kill each other for mating. Are you preposing we do the same? We are not JUST animals ( I think that might help) we are held to higher standards. I think this applies to all sexual topics.

Why are you equating "natural" with "good"? They are not the same.

Masturbation is natural. That is confirmed with any cursory examination of the evidence and of the definition of "natural".

I never once said masturbation was "good" or "bad". That is a personal judgement best left up to the masturbater, I guess.

However, in the determination of "good" or "bad", I will note the following things about masturbation:

Pros
----
1. It creates pleasure
2. It harms no one
3. It is a private act
4. It is natural

Cons
----
5. It encourages lustful thoughts


Now, it could be that YOUR particular belief system places so much weight on #5 and so little on #1-#4, that you conclude that masturbation is "BAD".

That's OK. I just happen to think that "lustful thoughts" are also "natural", so they're not that big of a deal as long as you don't act upon them.

However, I understand that Christian theology says "lust=adultery", therefore #5 makes masturbation "bad".

But it is still natural. And you know what? Fighting for the right to mate is certainly natural and humans engage in it all of the time. That doesn't make it right, though.

 

[LouisBooth]

"
Why are you equating "natural" with "good"? They are not the same. "

Exactly. You're the one making that linkage. The animals do it therefore its natural and natural is good.

"Cons "

Does more then that in my opinoin.

"so they're not that big of a deal as long as you don't act upon them. "

this goes back to my post of long ago that said you will come to a different conclusion then christians will. It is clearly said in the scriptures that thoughts are just as bad as the actual act in terms of sinning.

 

[Xenagon]

People,

BTW if anyone who knows me and is reading this, please keep this information to yourselves of just don't read it as it makes me nervous to talk and even write about it.

I'm 16 and I admit I have a problem with masturbation. I Started age 13 and have been this was ever since. Since I became a christian, or would like to think so, I began to think about my actions and what it was doing to me spiritually and where it would get me in the end. With God in Heaven or with Satan in hell.

When I thought these things and still performed these acts, I knew then I had a problem. It scares me to death sometimes to think that if I don't get my life right with God, sooner or later come Judgment Day, my head may be on the chopping block (figure of speech).

I've prayed many times and attempted fasts. However none have prevailed. I continue to try and rid myself of this addiction even now.

Please, if you have any feed back from my post please respond.

 

[Mallory Knox]

Originally posted by Xenagon
People,

BTW if anyone who knows me and is reading this, please keep this information to yourselves of just don't read it as it makes me nervous to talk and even write about it.

I'm 16 and I admit I have a problem with masturbation. I Started age 13 and have been this was ever since. Since I became a christian, or would like to think so, I began to think about my actions and what it was doing to me spiritually and where it would get me in the end. With God in Heaven or with Satan in hell.

When I thought these things and still performed these acts, I knew then I had a problem. It scares me to death sometimes to think that if I don't get my life right with God, sooner or later come Judgment Day, my head may be on the chopping block (figure of speech).

I've prayed many times and attempted fasts. However none have prevailed. I continue to try and rid myself of this addiction even now.

Please, if you have any feed back from my post please respond.

Every guy your age masturbates like crazy. There is no way you are going to hell for that or EVERYONE is in hell.

 

[Brian45]

Where's the preterists when you need em , they know all about this stuff . ha ha ha

 

[Josh]

I've been looking through this thread, and noticing some of the arguments.

One of the arguments is over whether or not is is natural. Is this even relevant? Whether or not it is natural does not decide whether or not it is moral. Man has a sinful nature.

We know that lust is wrong. And if we cannot touch without lusting, then we cannot touch without sinning. I don't know if it is possible to touch without lusting. If it is possible, I suppose you could say it is debateable whether or not masturbation is inherently wrong.

However, I think almost all the time, if not all the time, lust accompanies masturbation; maybe even masturbation is lust in an extreme form.

The first question that must be answered is: is it possible to touch without lusting? I suspect the answer is "no" (or at least it is highly unusual). If "no" is the answer, then we know we cannot touch without lusting, and therefore sinning.

 

[DaveKerwin]

Originally posted by Josh
I've been looking through this thread, and noticing some of the arguments.

One of the arguments is over whether or not is is natural. Is this even relevant? Whether or not it is natural does not decide whether or not it is moral. Man has a sinful nature.

We know that lust is wrong. And if we cannot touch without lusting, then we cannot touch without sinning. I don't know if it is possible to touch without lusting. If it is possible, I suppose you could say it is debateable whether or not masturbation is inherently wrong.

However, I think almost all the time, if not all the time, lust accompanies masturbation; maybe even masturbation is lust in an extreme form.

The first question that must be answered is: is it possible to touch without lusting? I suspect the answer is "no" (or at least it is highly unusual). If "no" is the answer, then we know we cannot touch without lusting, and therefore sinning.

Josh, good post. Any normal person (I can at least speak for the men) cannot touch and avoid lusting. It's wrong, just face it.

Malory, until you embrace the faith, you will see it as you do. I don't expect you to see it otherwise.

But for us that to the master, we need to realize the sin in our lives, repent, and take actions towards righteous living.

 

[Brian45]

Many years ago I came across a story in the old testement about a guy who went into his tent and spilt his seed . I'v tried to find it again but couldn't . The funniest part of that story was that the guy went into his tent to do something private , and had no idea that GOD was watching him perform his act , and GOD dosn't tell him that he saw him . Instead , GOD places the mans name and the act he performed in the pages of the best selling book in the world ( who said God doesn't have a sense of humour ) . And remember , this man will eventualy be resurected from the dead . I wonder what he will be remembered for ? .
ha ha

 

[Thunderchild]

You have a point Ray K - but what of the thought being focussed on one's betrothed? It is usually considered a sin to seek sexual fulfillment until after the marriage vows have been exchanged - but ....