A serious discussion on...masturbation

[JeTmAn]

Hi, not sure if this is the right forum for this. This topic, as squeamish as many feel about it, is one that needs to be discussed.

First thing: Is it a sin? What do you think? I believe it is something you shouldn't do because it's so closely associated with lust, and I think the Catholic church believes it is wrong because it wastes sperm (I could be wrong on this). What do you and/or your church believe concerning this topic?

Masturbation is something that I believe many Christians do but never talk about. Certainly almost 100% of secular males do it. So, how many of US do it? Is this a major problem? What should be done about it?

Serious replies only.

 

[Ben johnson]

This is something that isn't really addressed in the Bible. However, Matthew 5:28 says the THOUGHT of fornication carries the same weight as the ACT. So be careful of your thoughts.

Catholic church believes it is wrong because it wastes sperm

I don't know the "official Catholic policy", but I know about meiotic division in the seminiforous tubules, colleced in the epididimus. Once a certain pressure is reached, a natural mechanism occurs to relieve it. Nocturnally, during dreaming. There is no way to prevent this, it's how we were designed. WASTING? I do not believe gameto-production carries any sort of a "feed-back-mechanism" to regulate amounts (aside from pregnancy preventing ovulation). It occurs at its own rate.

One question that occurs to me, in this subject, also cuts to the heart of "prostitution", "infidelity", etcetera. What is the purpose of sex? We men are "sight-stimulated". But creatures of the Spirit, IE "new creations", we are focused on LOVE---and promiscuity is motivated by SELF. Perhaps masturbation too.

Rather than worry about it, maybe we should seek God with all our hearts, minds and souls, and let the Spirit guide us...

...imho...

 

[psycmajor]

Wastes sperm?? HA HA HA HA. They also teach that you shouldn't use contraception, which would mean more Catholics. Of course, the rhythm method is a (very risky) form of contraception. How is the church going to enforce that?

Anyway...

If it doesn't come out (either by masturbation or just naturally), it will still die. Therefore if it just sits there, it will not be effectual anyway. Old sperm is not good sperm, or so I've read. I don't know, I'm not exactly a reproductive expert.

I'm taking a neutral stance on this issue and the act itself, by the way. :o

 

[2002 Christian]

Whether Christians do it or not, is not the issue. What is God's will on the subject? Has He given any principles for the believer to use as a guide?
Yes. Would any like to list the scriptures? (I'll do it, if I ever get around to it.)

 

[Thunderchild]

Well now 2002 Christian - Don't keep such information to yourself. If the facts really are in the Bible it would be considerate of you to share them. Otherwise some might make the mistake of believing a lie.

 

[2002 Christian]

Start with this one:
1 Peter 2
11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

2 Timothy 2:22
Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

Matthew 5:28
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Romans 1:24
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Romans 6:12
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Romans 13:14
But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Galatians 5:24
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Ephesians 2:3
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Titus 2:11-12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

James 4:1
... of your lusts that war in your members?

 

[seebs]

I don't think there's a clear teaching here; masturbation is something that comes in and out of social fashion. Indeed, some of the verses used today to condemn homosexuals were, at one time, generally felt to condemn masturbation. (To say that the original text is vague is a polite understatement.)

The closest we have to a clear condemnation is probably the story of Onan - which, so far as I can tell, could just as easily refer to coitus interruptus, and in which the *sin* is disobedience of a direct order.

I think that, like any other sexual activity, it's context and intent that allows us to judge whether or not it's sinful. Intercourse isn't "sinful" or "not sinful" in a vacuum; I don't see why anything else should be.

Note that not all sexual desire is lust; they are distinct concepts, just as not all sense of accomplishment is pride. Sin isn't about a checklist of verbs; it's about your attitude and relationship with God.

 

[ZoneChaos]

Originally posted by seebs
I don't think there's a clear teaching here; masturbation is something that comes in and out of social fashion. Indeed, some of the verses used today to condemn homosexuals were, at one time, generally felt to condemn masturbation. (To say that the original text is vague is a polite understatement.)

The closest we have to a clear condemnation is probably the story of Onan - which, so far as I can tell, could just as easily refer to coitus interruptus, and in which the *sin* is disobedience of a direct order.

I think that, like any other sexual activity, it's context and intent that allows us to judge whether or not it's sinful. Intercourse isn't "sinful" or "not sinful" in a vacuum; I don't see why anything else should be.

Note that not all sexual desire is lust; they are distinct concepts, just as not all sense of accomplishment is pride. Sin isn't about a checklist of verbs; it's about your attitude and relationship with God.

Hmm.. perhaps if the only object of your imagination at the time was your marriage partner while you were marurbating... then I guess it may be ok.. but even then.. why not just have sex with them? I think that in that case too it would be lust for yourself and a self gratification that is the sin.

 

[Ray K]

Originally posted by ZoneChaos


Hmm.. perhaps if the only object of your imagination at the time was your marriage partner while you were marurbating... then I guess it may be ok.. but even then.. why not just have sex with them? I think that in that case too it would be lust for yourself and a self gratification that is the sin.

From the Christian perspective of adultery, that is a good point (about making sure your spouse is the objection of your imagination).

However, it is very easy to come up with many reasons as to why you are not able to physically have sex with your partner.

I think this is straightforward. For Christians, masturbation would be OK as long as they are imagining their spouse. This is still pretty strict, though, since many Christians are unmarried. I'm assuming this applies equally for men and women.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with it as long as your "significant other" is not being neglected as a result.

 

[DaveKerwin]

Official Veiw:

Masturbation is wrong. If a person can think non-sexual thought while masturbating, then they are non-human. When a person masturbates, its lust, just admit it. Therefore, it is wrong!!

Any Christian who is serious about their faith will avoid such an act. But being a man, its not an easy thing. But what counts is your efforts and repentance when you do sin.

Side note: Thinking about your spouse sexually cannot be wrong. So married folk can do what they please, assuming they got their spouse on their mind.

 

[Hank]

Originally posted by DaveKerwin
Official Veiw:

Masturbation is wrong. If a person can think non-sexual thought while masturbating, then they are non-human. When a person masturbates, its lust, just admit it. Therefore, it is wrong!!

Any Christian who is serious about their faith will avoid such an act. But being a man, its not an easy thing. But what counts is your efforts and repentance when you do sin.

Side note: Thinking about your spouse sexually cannot be wrong. So married folk can do what they please, assuming they got their spouse on their mind.

Well: 'He who is without sin cast the first stone'.

When I consider the amount of young males in the Bible, and that most probably did it, (I was a young male once) it is amazing none of them where disciplined by their parents or God. Or none of them did it, which really would be hard to believe, considering their age to get married was what, say forty.

I do not think this is a biblical issue, or an issue. Onan refused his 'fruit' to his mate; and that was disobedient to God. This is what God got upset. Other then that, and keep in mind I do not believe in the Holy Spirit, what I think and what I do are two different things. I can not sin with my thoughts. Only when my thoughts or heart's desires overwelm me into action am I in sin.

 

[JeTmAn]

Hank, are you a Christian? If so, you DON'T believe in the Holy Spirit? How does that work?

Anyways, interesting responses. I am most interested in those who think it's NOT wrong, since that's obviously the hardest position to defend. I don't know honestly how someone could condone this practice. I KNEW I was doing wrong instinctively when I did it, and it made my life miserable. I was a slave to my own body, and I hated it and myself...and loved it. So it is with most sins. I tried for two years to give it up again and again but could not.

Finally, when I got rid of some other sin in my life, God gave me the strength to stop. One day, I just didn't need to do it. That was seven weeks ago, and I haven't faltered since. The longest time I had gone without doing it in the last two years was two weeks. I am occasionally tempted, but I do not believe I will fail again.

 

[DaveKerwin]

Originally posted by Hank

Well: 'He who is without sin cast the first stone'.

I do not think this is a biblical issue, or an issue. and keep in mind I do not believe in the Holy Spirit

I didnt claim I was without sin, read my post again.

If you don't think this is a biblical issue, then what is!!?? Perhaps Jesus is not a biblical issue, would you agree? cough..sarcasm..cough

No holy spirit huh, man you are missing out. Read the scriptures Hank, you will see the truth.

 

[Ray K]

Originally posted by JeTmAn
I am most interested in those who think it's NOT wrong, since that's obviously the hardest position to defend. I don't know honestly how someone could condone this practice. I KNEW I was doing wrong instinctively when I did it, and it made my life miserable. I was a slave to my own body, and I hated it and myself...and loved it

Sex is natural. Masturbation is natural. I would rather someone give in to his "lust" and touch than to become a sexually dysfunctional person.

Most men feel guilty when they do it because our society's Puritanical views on sex have ingrained into us that any sexual act except the "missionary" position between a husband and wife is wrong, evil and sinful.

We continually beat ourselves up over this very personal act which harms or affects no one but ourselves. In fact, the only result is that it gives pleasure! How weird is it that we demonize one of the few consequence-free pleasures available to us?

I got over it a long time ago. For reasons that I will not go into, my sexual drive exceeds that of my spouse. I am sure that she is grateful that I do not try to force myself on her.

If you consider it adulterous, then construct an imaginary person in your mind. Obviously, you cannot commit adultery with an non-existant person.

 

[ZoneChaos]

Masturbation is wrong. If a person can think non-sexual thought while masturbating, then they are non-human. When a person masturbates, its lust, just admit it. Therefore, it is wrong!!

Asa blanket answer, I wouod agree.. but note that sex is not wroing, but it is the application of sex by man that has the potential of being wrong.

 

[ZoneChaos]

If you consider it adulterous, then construct an imaginary person in your mind. Obviously, you cannot commit adultery with an non-existant person. [/B]

Actually, that is adultery too..

 

[Ray K]

Originally posted by ZoneChaos


Actually, that is adultery too..

What if you are imagining a sex act with your wife that you KNOW she would never perform herself? What if she's had breast implants in your imagination? Is that adulterous?

These may sound like flippant examples, but I'm trying to point out that drawing a line between "OK" masturbation and "sinful" masturbation is not as easy as you think.

Better play it safe. It's all sinful!!!

 

[Hank]

Originally posted by JeTmAn
Hank, are you a Christian? If so, you DON'T believe in the Holy Spirit? How does that work?

Anyways, interesting responses. I am most interested in those who think it's NOT wrong, since that's obviously the hardest position to defend. I don't know honestly how someone could condone this practice. I KNEW I was doing wrong instinctively when I did it, and it made my life miserable. I was a slave to my own body, and I hated it and myself...and loved it. So it is with most sins. I tried for two years to give it up again and again but could not.

Finally, when I got rid of some other sin in my life, God gave me the strength to stop. One day, I just didn't need to do it. That was seven weeks ago, and I haven't faltered since. The longest time I had gone without doing it in the last two years was two weeks. I am occasionally tempted, but I do not believe I will fail again.

I am a theist/agnostic meaning I believe in God, not in Jesus or any or mythical god's.

Your remaining post seem to be addressed to everyone. I think God made your body to enjoy pleasures, God spelled out what are wrong pleasures and which are permitted. If what you wrote is based on your church's doctrine, I think it is a shame that religion makes people slaves to their doctrines.

Salomon clearly wrote in Ecclesiastes 11:8-10
"However many years a man may live, let him enjoy them all. But let him remember the days of darkness, for they will be many. Everything to come is meaningless.
Be happy, young man, while you are young, and let your heart give you joy in the days of your youth. Follow the ways of your heart and whatever your eyes see, but know that for all these things
God will bring you to judgment. So then, banish anxiety from your heart and cast off the troubles of your body, for youth and vigor are meaningless."

In other words unless you expect God to judge you on this issue, and for this I like to the laws to this subject, you may not be worried, unless it is an obsession taken over your life.
Like drinking. One drink fine, a whole bottle not fine.

 

[Hank]

Originally posted by DaveKerwin


I didnt claim I was without sin, read my post again.

If you don't think this is a biblical issue, then what is!!?? Perhaps Jesus is not a biblical issue, would you agree? cough..sarcasm..cough

No holy spirit huh, man you are missing out. Read the scriptures Hank, you will see the truth.

You obviously didn't like my responses, well, counter my arguments via your Bible, do not derail the topic to convert me into Christianity. It wont happen. Been there/done that.

 

[LouisBooth]

"These may sound like flippant examples, but I'm trying to point out that drawing a line between "OK" masturbation and "sinful" masturbation is not as easy as you think. "

Ray K, I'm sure, regardless of any far out there example you can come up with, you know when its right or wrong. The point of this thread will come to different conclusions since some of you are not held to the conventant with God that we are.