• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

A secret agreement between Beijing and the Holy See has left the faithful facing confusing dilemmas

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by Michie, Aug 17, 2019.

  1. Michie

    Michie Human rights begin in the womb. Supporter

    +23,286
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Others
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

    +10,432
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-American-Solidarity
    So Cardinal Zen's Dubia also goes unanswered.
     
  3. Stabat Mater

    Stabat Mater Jesus Christ conquers! Supporter

    +6,527
    Holy See (vatican City State)
    Traditional. Cath.
    Single
    Boy, aren't we blessed to have Francis as our pope...
    :ebil:
     
  4. eastcoast_bsc

    eastcoast_bsc Veteran

    +5,471
    Christian
    What an absolute joke. China now knows the church is weak. Look what China is doing to the Muslim minority and what they are doing to Hong Kong. They will attempt to crush the Catholic church. They know the head is weak.

    The thing they don't understand is that we have Christ on our side.
     
  5. Stabat Mater

    Stabat Mater Jesus Christ conquers! Supporter

    +6,527
    Holy See (vatican City State)
    Traditional. Cath.
    Single
    This move by pope Francis only shows that there's clericalism at every level of the church. If there wasn't any rank clericalism in the Vatican I'm sure the Pope would've weighed cardinal Zens opinion on this, a tad stronger.
     
  6. pdudgeon

    pdudgeon Traditional Catholic

    +9,378
    United States
    Catholic
    Widowed
    US-Republican
    of course!
     
  7. pdudgeon

    pdudgeon Traditional Catholic

    +9,378
    United States
    Catholic
    Widowed
    US-Republican
    The thing is that it's only as these objections stack up higher and higher, that the weight of the problem becomes apparent over the course of time.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  8. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

    +10,432
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-American-Solidarity
    Times like this the solution almost always rises from great Saints and not necessarily clerics.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  9. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

    +5,873
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-American-Solidarity
    There is clericalism, but there is more than just that going on. You've got prelates who don't believe, priests who don't believe, so no surprise we get 'deals' like the China deal that stab real Catholics in the back. Remember that Mr. McCarrick was one of pope Francis' China envoys. A faithless abusive hack who did damage to whatever he touched.
     
  10. Michie

    Michie Human rights begin in the womb. Supporter

    +23,286
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Others
    Why was this deal made?
     
  11. pdudgeon

    pdudgeon Traditional Catholic

    +9,378
    United States
    Catholic
    Widowed
    US-Republican
    .
     
  12. Michie

    Michie Human rights begin in the womb. Supporter

    +23,286
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Others
    No, I honestly want to make sense of it. It is certainly not a good deal for Catholic Christians. The Government just seems more emboldened and they do not seem to be honoring anything in this so-called deal. So what was the hurry in making such an empty agreement?
     
  13. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

    +10,432
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-American-Solidarity
    Look how quickly they also tried to make a deal with the sspx. It was the sspx who refused. It is the facade of getting along and reconciliation without dealing with the underlying problems. Symbol over substance. Very short-sighted.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • List
  14. Michie

    Michie Human rights begin in the womb. Supporter

    +23,286
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Others
    It shows very little care for the flock in my opinion. The ones they are supposed to shepherd. I often feel more concern is shown for those that have no respect or regard for our faith.
     
  15. pdudgeon

    pdudgeon Traditional Catholic

    +9,378
    United States
    Catholic
    Widowed
    US-Republican
    and other times it's just a case of the truth winning out, no matter how embarrassing that might be for all concerned.

    But the truth is (or should be) what we always want to be revealed (even when it is embarrassing). Because in the end, knowing and living the truth is far better than is living a lie, subsequently covering up knowledge of that lie, and then teaching others to do the same.

    It's a small, personal hurt that when accepted in the right spirit, helps to retain a great joy in the end. And it takes great courage to openly admit that.

    And still greater courage to die for that truth.
     
  16. pdudgeon

    pdudgeon Traditional Catholic

    +9,378
    United States
    Catholic
    Widowed
    US-Republican
    In this case, we have two recognized leaders of their respective followers who have both made mistakes, and who both desperately want to save face.

    So they find a compromise which serves no one, agree on that compromise, and then both renege, and each blames the other.
     
  17. pdudgeon

    pdudgeon Traditional Catholic

    +9,378
    United States
    Catholic
    Widowed
    US-Republican
    It's the old lesson replayed in modern times.
    The higher you climb, the more is at stake.
    And if you slip from that pinnacle, the harder will be the fall,
    and the worse the damage.

    That's why it pays to secure the foundation first before you start your climb.:oldthumbsup:
     
  18. charsan

    charsan Charismatic Episcopal Church

    543
    +471
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    We must pray for the Chinese Christians
     
    • Prayers Prayers x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  19. Michie

    Michie Human rights begin in the womb. Supporter

    +23,286
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Others
    Agreed.
     
Loading...