- Dec 17, 2010
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Hi all,
in another thread some new questions around Matthew 24 forced me to reconsider some aspects of Peter Bolt's "Jesus going TO the Ancient of Days" hypothesis.
Normally many of us read this chapter as being about the end of the temple and then suddenly jumping to the Return of Jesus, way before Jesus uses the famous phrase in verse 36 "But about THAT DAY or hour no one knows."
Why do we make that jump? Because we don't know the context and meaning of the Old Testament verses being quoted, and so it sounds an awful lot like the end of the world! I used to read this passage as the end of the world - but got really confused when it said "34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." But the world DIDN'T end then. So what does it all mean?
We need to put aside our preconceived ideas and systematically go through this apocalyptic symbolism and try and find what is being quoted from the Old Testament. Because I'm starting to side with Dr Bolt that if we look at the OT verses in context, this is all about God judging Jerusalem and the Old Covenant, and as the temple is destroyed they are to remember that Jesus is reigning from heaven! Indeed, it's because Jesus is reigning that such a thing could even happen!
Also please remember Jesus has just wept over Jerusalem, declared he IS the temple - and knows he is about to be brutally murdered as the ultimate sacrifice. This sometimes abstract thing we call "the gospel" is about to get very real indeed!
MATTHEW 24
“Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
The stars falling? End of the world - case closed! Except - this is exactly the language used to describe a kingdom being burned to the ground - not end of this whole universe stuff! Check it out. Remember Isaiah's prophecy against Babylon? It's not the end of the world - just the end of Babylon. God stirs up the Medes and Persians to strike down Babylon. But, typical of Hebrew hyperbolic symbolism - listen to this language!
Isaiah 13:
"See, the day of the Lord is coming—a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger— to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it. The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light."
It's the Day of the Lord against Babylon in particular. But it's not the end of the world. Again, this judgement against Jerusalem is so severe it brings to mind Isaiah 34: which is a universal judgment against all God's enemies - Edom. More picture language.
Joel 2 describes a vast army of the Lord bringing justice - and uses similar language.
Before them the earth shakes,
the heavens tremble,
the sun and moon are darkened,
and the stars no longer shine.
Isaiah 34
"All the stars in the sky will be dissolved and the heavens rolled up like a scroll; all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like shriveled figs from the fig tree."
So the stars falling and heavens rolled up are symbolic of cosmic judgement. But whose judgement? We learn in the NT that - and could easily be describing the Almighty Judging the Son! All the world's sin, poured out on his head. Horrible, but amazing for us!
Then what do we make of the next bit of Matt 24?
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
People are geographically challenged with the direction the Son of Man is travelling. He's not travelling TO the Earth here, but back TO the father!
Check Daniel 7.
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
People always think this is the Lord coming back to earth. What if this is the Lord Jesus, the Son of Man, going back into heaven and being welcomed by the Ancient of Days, God the Father, after dying for us all? Isn't that just the appropriate image for God the Son returning as the "Son of Man" who was killed and now lives? Then he IS given an eternal dominion - the church - and we are reigning in heaven with him now - even as our bodies remain here on earth.
Back to Matthew 24
31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
The word in the Greek is angelos, and can be translated as Angels, but can also mean messengers. What if we've been reading THIS bit wrong as well, and it's actually the apostles gathering in the elect with the message, the gospel? Jesus is a week away from dying. He is about to go through horrible things and the disciples scatter. There have already been false Messiahs on the scene. So immediately after the distress of 'those days' is not really clear in timing.
Check these uses of "angelos" which is not angels but messengers or even spies!
James 2:25 "In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the SPIES and sent them off in a different direction?" (NIV, ESV says "messengers".)
Luke 9:52 "And he sent MESSENGERS ahead of him, who went and entered a village of the Samaritans, to make preparations for him."
It's the same word, angelos. It's about context.
Daniel 7 is about the Son of Man going back to the father and winning a kingdom.
Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world - it's the church instead which is not meant to be a political body.
Daniel 7 + gospel events of Jesus dying then going back to the Ancient of Days = end of Old Covenant, End of Temple, and messengers taking out the gospel. And if I haven't explained it well enough, here are my Reformed Sydney Anglican Ministers doing a better job.
The first half of Matthew 24 - the readings start at 22:00 minutes in and then the talk.
The second half of Matthew 24 - readings start at 21 minutes in.
(Also, please do not text that mobile number questions as it is only for during the service.)
As I said, The Boltian view is controversial. This PDF has some interesting comparisons between him and DA Carson and other theologians on this passage.
https://thematthewphile.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/matthew-24-25-nt4-2008-lecture-notes.pdf
in another thread some new questions around Matthew 24 forced me to reconsider some aspects of Peter Bolt's "Jesus going TO the Ancient of Days" hypothesis.
Normally many of us read this chapter as being about the end of the temple and then suddenly jumping to the Return of Jesus, way before Jesus uses the famous phrase in verse 36 "But about THAT DAY or hour no one knows."
Why do we make that jump? Because we don't know the context and meaning of the Old Testament verses being quoted, and so it sounds an awful lot like the end of the world! I used to read this passage as the end of the world - but got really confused when it said "34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." But the world DIDN'T end then. So what does it all mean?
We need to put aside our preconceived ideas and systematically go through this apocalyptic symbolism and try and find what is being quoted from the Old Testament. Because I'm starting to side with Dr Bolt that if we look at the OT verses in context, this is all about God judging Jerusalem and the Old Covenant, and as the temple is destroyed they are to remember that Jesus is reigning from heaven! Indeed, it's because Jesus is reigning that such a thing could even happen!
Also please remember Jesus has just wept over Jerusalem, declared he IS the temple - and knows he is about to be brutally murdered as the ultimate sacrifice. This sometimes abstract thing we call "the gospel" is about to get very real indeed!
MATTHEW 24
“Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
The stars falling? End of the world - case closed! Except - this is exactly the language used to describe a kingdom being burned to the ground - not end of this whole universe stuff! Check it out. Remember Isaiah's prophecy against Babylon? It's not the end of the world - just the end of Babylon. God stirs up the Medes and Persians to strike down Babylon. But, typical of Hebrew hyperbolic symbolism - listen to this language!
Isaiah 13:
"See, the day of the Lord is coming—a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger— to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it. The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light."
It's the Day of the Lord against Babylon in particular. But it's not the end of the world. Again, this judgement against Jerusalem is so severe it brings to mind Isaiah 34: which is a universal judgment against all God's enemies - Edom. More picture language.
Joel 2 describes a vast army of the Lord bringing justice - and uses similar language.
Before them the earth shakes,
the heavens tremble,
the sun and moon are darkened,
and the stars no longer shine.
Isaiah 34
"All the stars in the sky will be dissolved and the heavens rolled up like a scroll; all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like shriveled figs from the fig tree."
So the stars falling and heavens rolled up are symbolic of cosmic judgement. But whose judgement? We learn in the NT that - and could easily be describing the Almighty Judging the Son! All the world's sin, poured out on his head. Horrible, but amazing for us!
Then what do we make of the next bit of Matt 24?
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
People are geographically challenged with the direction the Son of Man is travelling. He's not travelling TO the Earth here, but back TO the father!
Check Daniel 7.
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
People always think this is the Lord coming back to earth. What if this is the Lord Jesus, the Son of Man, going back into heaven and being welcomed by the Ancient of Days, God the Father, after dying for us all? Isn't that just the appropriate image for God the Son returning as the "Son of Man" who was killed and now lives? Then he IS given an eternal dominion - the church - and we are reigning in heaven with him now - even as our bodies remain here on earth.
Back to Matthew 24
31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
The word in the Greek is angelos, and can be translated as Angels, but can also mean messengers. What if we've been reading THIS bit wrong as well, and it's actually the apostles gathering in the elect with the message, the gospel? Jesus is a week away from dying. He is about to go through horrible things and the disciples scatter. There have already been false Messiahs on the scene. So immediately after the distress of 'those days' is not really clear in timing.
Check these uses of "angelos" which is not angels but messengers or even spies!
James 2:25 "In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the SPIES and sent them off in a different direction?" (NIV, ESV says "messengers".)
Luke 9:52 "And he sent MESSENGERS ahead of him, who went and entered a village of the Samaritans, to make preparations for him."
It's the same word, angelos. It's about context.
Daniel 7 is about the Son of Man going back to the father and winning a kingdom.
Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world - it's the church instead which is not meant to be a political body.
Daniel 7 + gospel events of Jesus dying then going back to the Ancient of Days = end of Old Covenant, End of Temple, and messengers taking out the gospel. And if I haven't explained it well enough, here are my Reformed Sydney Anglican Ministers doing a better job.
The first half of Matthew 24 - the readings start at 22:00 minutes in and then the talk.
The second half of Matthew 24 - readings start at 21 minutes in.
As I said, The Boltian view is controversial. This PDF has some interesting comparisons between him and DA Carson and other theologians on this passage.
https://thematthewphile.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/matthew-24-25-nt4-2008-lecture-notes.pdf