A Question

1whirlwind

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Revelation 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

How? The flood the dragon cast out of his mouth is a flood of lies, deception, twisted scripture as he pretends to be Jesus. The woman, if the woman is the body of Christ, is helped by the earth opening her mouth. The earth is symbolic of those that don't believe in Jesus. So, what is the verse telling us?

Your thoughts.....
 
A

acacia_gold

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Revelation 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

How? The flood the dragon cast out of his mouth is a flood of lies, deception, twisted scripture as he pretends to be Jesus. The woman, if the woman is the body of Christ, is helped by the earth opening her mouth. The earth is symbolic of those that don't believe in Jesus. So, what is the verse telling us?

Your thoughts.....
That the strong child that was taken up was the mature fruit of Christianoty and those left behind are still not established in faith.
 
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mindlight

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Revelation 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

How? The flood the dragon cast out of his mouth is a flood of lies, deception, twisted scripture as he pretends to be Jesus. The woman, if the woman is the body of Christ, is helped by the earth opening her mouth. The earth is symbolic of those that don't believe in Jesus. So, what is the verse telling us?

Your thoughts.....

Is the flood lies etc or a vicious persecution and firebreathing attempt to destroy the church.

Through history there have been a number of ways of looking at this verse. For example the barbarian invasions of the Western Roman empire was interpreted as such a flood aimed at destroying the church that Rome sheltered. The help of the earth in this case could then be the worldly men who for their own self-interest defended the church through these years.

Others interpret the secularised laws of the earth as the defence that absorbed the full blow of satans persecution.

Others assume that the rage was expended on another set of people provided by the earth - a set of false Jews for example to distract Satan from the destruction of the church and to bleed away the force of his anger.

The key points are really:

1) The devil hates us
2) The devil will try and destroy us
3) One way or another God will protect us and will use some feature of this earth to do so.
 
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1whirlwind

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I think they are just having fun with the question. I'm sure they didn't mean to derail your thoughts.

Derailing my thoughts doesn't bother me...derailing my mind does. Trying to connect their answers to the question does make me wonder if perhaps I had lost mine. ^_^
 
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1whirlwind

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Is the flood lies etc or a vicious persecution and firebreathing attempt to destroy the church.

Through history there have been a number of ways of looking at this verse. For example the barbarian invasions of the Western Roman empire was interpreted as such a flood aimed at destroying the church that Rome sheltered. The help of the earth in this case could then be the worldly men who for their own self-interest defended the church through these years.

Others interpret the secularised laws of the earth as the defence that absorbed the full blow of satans persecution.

Others assume that the rage was expended on another set of people provided by the earth - a set of false Jews for example to distract Satan from the destruction of the church and to bleed away the force of his anger.

The key points are really:

1) The devil hates us
2) The devil will try and destroy us
3) One way or another God will protect us and will use some feature of this earth to do so.

Thank you for your reply. :) I agree that the woman is the church and that Satan wants to destroy her/us. But, how does the earth help her? The earth and sea are symbolic of unbelievers. How does their swallowing the deception help the woman?
 
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mindlight

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Thank you for your reply. :) I agree that the woman is the church and that Satan wants to destroy her/us. But, how does the earth help her? The earth and sea are symbolic of unbelievers. How does their swallowing the deception help the woman?

I do not know if its a deception or a vicious persecution that is being talked about here. But it seems to me from just seeing how evil and the world works in practice that very often evil people and forces are their own worst enemies and that the efficiency of their purpose is undermined by that. The Nazis or Communists being perfect examples.

So what's the devils purpose - obvious one - he wants to destroy the church.

How could the earth i.e. the devils realm get in the way of that. Well the passage does not actually say does it, but as I said in my previous reply there are various ways in which the devil might have been tripping over his own feet on this one.

For instance a self interested worldly man might interpret a full out assault on his Christian neighbours as an assault on his own property or life and get in the way of that assault and even oppose it for instance as did many godless Romans who defended Christians against the barbarian invasions of the 4th century. The fury of the barbarians was very often expended against these men and the Christians ignored as a result, to survive and prosper into the new order of the dark ages.

Another way the devil can trip over his own feet is in the ways in which the culture he helped to build, as a way of bleeding away faith and crippling Christians, gets in the way of his own efficient execution of his purpose. So for example laws protecting freedom of speech which he used to foster a culture of lies and to encourage false relgions might be used to defend Christians against persecution.

A third way might be because he ends up targeting a third group of people who actually already belong to him. He ends up destroying them when he really wanted to destroy the church. These false Jews-Christians could be any group of people that the world throws in the way of his purpose at the time.
 
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revanneosl

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Revelation 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

How? The flood the dragon cast out of his mouth is a flood of lies, deception, twisted scripture as he pretends to be Jesus. The woman, if the woman is the body of Christ, is helped by the earth opening her mouth. The earth is symbolic of those that don't believe in Jesus. So, what is the verse telling us?

Your thoughts.....

Thank you for your reply. :) I agree that the woman is the church and that Satan wants to destroy her/us. But, how does the earth help her? The earth and sea are symbolic of unbelievers. How does their swallowing the deception help the woman?

I think that you've made a mistake in too simply interpreting the earth and the sea as symbols of unbelievers. They sometimes are, but not always. This passage seems to be reminding the reader that the earth is God's creation, and therefore good, and will come to the aid of those who love God.
 
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Standing Up

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Thank you for your reply. :) I agree that the woman is the church and that Satan wants to destroy her/us. But, how does the earth help her? The earth and sea are symbolic of unbelievers. How does their swallowing the deception help the woman?


Earth -- gentiles
Sea -- Jews

Right?
 
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1whirlwind

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Earth -- gentiles
Sea -- Jews

Right?


I'm not certain how the symbolic meaning pertains to them but I know it is written...

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
The Jews are sealed so...there will be Jews and if there will be Jews then they can't be the sea.

The two beasts of [Rev.13] come up from the earth and the sea. I've never thought of the difference in the two but they must represent a difference of some type.
 
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