A question for the men

Paidiske

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From what I have read above, Am I right in concluding that a dissenting opinion is not allowed in this particular forum?

From the SOP:

The Egalitarian Christians forum is a forum for discussion and fellowship for members who believe in Bibllcal equality between men and women. Some things about Egalitarians include:

  • Belief that the Bible teaches the full equality of men and women in Creation and in Redemption
  • Belief that both woman and man were created for full and equal partnership.
  • Belief that man and woman were co-participants in the Fall
  • Belief that husbands and wives are joint heirs together of the grace of life and that they are bound together in a relationship of mutual submission and responsibility
  • Belief that both mothers and fathers are to exercise leadership in the nurture, training, discipline and teaching of their children

Some specific guidelines for this forum include:
1. This is a safehouse forum for Egalitarian Christians. Criticizing or mocking members hold that view is not allowed.
2. This forum is intended to be informational and not for debate. There may be some disagreements, but these should be handled with grace towards one another rather than attacking one another....

House Rules:
All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules found here (Community Rules). In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against its theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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Scripturally speaking that is not true. EVERYONE needs governing. Everyone needs to be submitted to another human authority figure.

That is why the independent church model with a single pastor who is unaccountable to anyone is NOT SCRIPTURAL.
Scripturally that is true. The law is in place as a governor but when one has grown/mature one is no longer under OT law but under NT grace. Bottomline is the Holy Spirit is the only instructor we need.
 
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Dave-W

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The law is in place as a governor but when one has grown/mature one is no longer under OT law but under NT grace. Bottomline is the Holy Spirit is the only instructor we need.
The set up of elders, deacons and apostles IS NT grace. It is NOT OT law.

Romans 13:1a Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities.

1 Corinthians 16:16 that you also be in subjection to such men and to everyone who helps in the work and labors.

1 Peter 5:5 You younger men, likewise, be subject to your elders; and all of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, for God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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The set up of elders, deacons and apostles IS NT grace. It is NOT OT law.

Romans 13:1a Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities.

1 Corinthians 16:16 that you also be in subjection to such men and to everyone who helps in the work and labors.

1 Peter 5:5 You younger men, likewise, be subject to your elders; and all of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, for God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble.
The Holy Spirit puts governments in place and takes them down. And of course those who pull the plow should not be muzzled, that's not the point. Young men in subject to elders is what I said. Spiritual parents in care of the young
 
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Victory-N-Christ

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Hi. It's great that we have this forum. As to husband being the head...well some men get the idea that they should have absolute power over not only their wives but other women too.Like their word is law and they shouldn't listen to or do what their wives say.Well God let Abraham know that it was okay to do what Sarah suggested in the matter of Hagar and Ishmael. Gen 21:1-12. And being that God had already said that in Isaac Abraham's seed would be blessed it even sounds as if Sarah was speaking God's will even if she said it out of negativity,anger and contempt for Hagar's son.When of course it had been her idea that her husband have a a child with Hagar in the beginning..Which just goes to show that when we get ahead of God we usually make a mess of things...(which is entirely off topic) I'll hush now...
 
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pescador

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I don't get into these discussions very often, since for me the Bible is very clear. Ephesians 5:1 says "Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ."

I have been married for 48 years. My wife has always been my equal partner, and while we have different roles, neither is superior. I consider it a serious sin to take two people whom God has joined together and consider one dominant over the other. (BTW, this is not meant to limit this equality to unmarried people.)
 
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Victory-N-Christ

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I think that potential husbands should take a class that would teach them effective ways to lead their households. And potential wives should also learn what it means to be a wife and co- partner in the marriage.It just seems that people twist these marriage scriptures in such a way that the wives end up on the losing end of things.
 
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Dave-W

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Belief that man and woman were co-participants in the Fall
Padiske - this one point I have a bit of a problem with. I place the blame of the fall fully on Adam, and not on Mrs Adam (later named Eve).

Paul says she got deceived. IOW she was tricked into doing something she did not want to do.

But Adam was not tricked. He fully chose of his own volition to disobey.


============================================

ETA: I am 100% agreed with your other points:
  • Belief that the Bible teaches the full equality of men and women in Creation and in Redemption
  • Belief that both woman and man were created for full and equal partnership.
  • ........
  • Belief that husbands and wives are joint heirs together of the grace of life and that they are bound together in a relationship of mutual submission and responsibility
  • Belief that both mothers and fathers are to exercise leadership in the nurture, training, discipline and teaching of their children
 
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Paidiske

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I didn't come up with that part of the SOP, but I think the point is to avoid the unfortunate trend of blaming the fall entirely on Eve.

For myself, I see it that they were both told not to eat, and they both ate. They might have had different motivations for doing so, or different levels of what we would today call culpability, but they both did it.
 
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Dave-W

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For myself, I see it that they were both told not to eat, and they both ate.
Actually, as a literalist, I take it that only MR Adam was told not to eat:

Genesis 2:15 Then the Lord God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it. 16 The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”

18 Then the Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.”​

Adam had to pass that information on to Eve. She was not told directly.
 
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RDKirk

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The use of the word "average" is important here. In almost every case we know of, many people in any group are above or below the average on various measures as well. In a given marriage, it is quite possible that the woman will be superior to the man in various traits, and/or he superior to her in others. A wife might even be physically stronger than her husband. It is just stupid to deny the maximum expression of all the gifts of God, because a couple insists that the man must always lead. The best success potential is to let both partners use their gifts to the maximum.

Maybe so, but if something goes crash in the night, it still ought to be the man who gets out of bed to check it out. "You get the kids out of the house--I'll make him beat me up a while to buy you time."
 
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Daniel Marsh

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For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. (1 Timothy 2:13–14)

But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. (2 Corinthians 11:3)

So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. (Genesis 3:6)

For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. (1 Corinthians 15:21–22, 45)

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned.

But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.

For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ. Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous. (Romans 5:12, 15, 17–19)
 
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pescador

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My wife made it pretty clear that she was the boss from the start. So I ceded to her authority and all the responsibility that comes with it.

Not funny. Can't you give a serious answer?
 
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