A question for my Mormon friends

Phantasman

Newbie
May 12, 2012
4,953
226
Tennessee
✟34,626.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
I use the word friends, because I feel you are. First, I don't want a debate, as my curiosity is about the actions of Christ. It doesn't matter if others believe it happened or not, my only concern is on the beliefs of the historic Mormons.

When I lived in Utah, I obtained the 3 books the Mormons hold a great value. I remember going to the visitors center in SLC and seeing the whole story in the visitors center. As I remember, it was quite impressive.

My question stems from the Book of Mormon. After Christ was crucified, does not the Book of Mormon say that he appears to those on this side of the world and tells them that they are his other sheep? I guess my question is really, doesn't Jesus appear in the Book of Mormon? If so, does he teach and for how long? If not, please correct me.
 

RevelationTestament

Our God is a consuming fire.
Apr 26, 2013
3,727
46
United States
✟19,404.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
I use the word friends, because I feel you are. First, I don't want a debate, as my curiosity is about the actions of Christ. It doesn't matter if others believe it happened or not, my only concern is on the beliefs of the historic Mormons.

When I lived in Utah, I obtained the 3 books the Mormons hold a great value. I remember going to the visitors center in SLC and seeing the whole story in the visitors center. As I remember, it was quite impressive.

My question stems from the Book of Mormon. After Christ was crucified, does not the Book of Mormon say that he appears to those on this side of the world and tells them that they are his other sheep? I guess my question is really, doesn't Jesus appear in the Book of Mormon? If so, does he teach and for how long? If not, please correct me.

Yes, in 3 Nephi. He didn't stay for long. He basically repeats the sermon on the mount to the people. But the first time I read it, it was almost a disappointment... I guess I expected more. Although the Book of Mormon does clarify a few doctrinal points of the Bible, I feel its main purpose is to place certain biblical scriptures in chronological perspective.
 
Upvote 0

Phantasman

Newbie
May 12, 2012
4,953
226
Tennessee
✟34,626.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Yes, in 3 Nephi. He didn't stay for long. He basically repeats the sermon on the mount to the people. But the first time I read it, it was almost a disappointment... I guess I expected more. Although the Book of Mormon does clarify a few doctrinal points of the Bible, I feel its main purpose is to place certain biblical scriptures in chronological perspective.


Thank you.

It's interesting to note that Christ gives them a doctrine.


35 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and I bear record of it from the Father; and whoso believeth in me believeth in the Father also; and unto him will the Father bear record of me, for he will visit him with fire and with the Holy Ghost.
36 And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one.
37 And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and become as a little child, and be baptized in my name, or ye can in nowise receive these things.
38 And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and be baptized in my name, and become as a little child, or ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God.


And as we go further, the rock comes into play. While the Orthodox believe it is Peter, it would appear the rock is the strength built on the doctrine. Is that the way you see it?


39 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.
40 And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil, and is not built upon my rock; but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell stand open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them.
 
Upvote 0

Phantasman

Newbie
May 12, 2012
4,953
226
Tennessee
✟34,626.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Depending upon who you talk to, the "rock" is either revelation (such as Peter having Christ's identity revealed to him without Jesus even needing to say anything) or faith itself.


Either way, it isn't building a church on Peter himself. I never saw it that way. Why wouldn't Jesus say "you are a rock Peter and upon you I will build my church"? He said "My Father has showed you this and I say that you are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church" How does one get building a church on Peter out of that, unless Jesus had a speech impediment or someone added the blue part.
 
Upvote 0

Phantasman

Newbie
May 12, 2012
4,953
226
Tennessee
✟34,626.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Nephi 15
8 For behold, the covenant which I have made with my people is not all fulfilled; but the law which was given unto Moses hath an end in me. 9 Behold, I am the law, and the light. Look unto me, and endure to the end, and ye shall live; for unto him that endureth to the end will I give eternal life.
10 Behold, I have given unto you the commandments; therefore keep my commandments. And this is the law and the prophets, for they truly testified of me.


So, Jesus pretty much told them the law had ended in him with his commandments (of love). Which is what I have come to believe as well.

Is this how the LDS see it?
 
Upvote 0

RevelationTestament

Our God is a consuming fire.
Apr 26, 2013
3,727
46
United States
✟19,404.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Nephi 15
8 For behold, the covenant which I have made with my people is not all fulfilled; but the law which was given unto Moses hath an end in me. 9 Behold, I am the law, and the light. Look unto me, and endure to the end, and ye shall live; for unto him that endureth to the end will I give eternal life.
10 Behold, I have given unto you the commandments; therefore keep my commandments. And this is the law and the prophets, for they truly testified of me.


So, Jesus pretty much told them the law had ended in him with his commandments (of love). Which is what I have come to believe as well.

Is this how the LDS see it?

He is still fulfilling the law in my view. If one really sees the law, it reveals the order of heaven. The law does not end, but is fulfilled in Him or through Him or however one wants to say it. The greatest law is to love God and our fellow man - on this hang all the law and the prophets. :)
 
Upvote 0

RevelationTestament

Our God is a consuming fire.
Apr 26, 2013
3,727
46
United States
✟19,404.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Either way, it isn't building a church on Peter himself. I never saw it that way. Why wouldn't Jesus say "you are a rock Peter and upon you I will build my church"? He said "My Father has showed you this and I say that you are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church" How does one get building a church on Peter out of that, unless Jesus had a speech impediment or someone added the blue part.

The rock or stone in the gospel is the gospel or the word itself. Christ is the chief cornerstone.
Consider this:
Revelation 2:17
17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 18:21
21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
 
Upvote 0

Ironhold

Member
Feb 14, 2014
7,625
1,463
✟201,967.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Single
Either way, it isn't building a church on Peter himself. I never saw it that way. Why wouldn't Jesus say "you are a rock Peter and upon you I will build my church"? He said "My Father has showed you this and I say that you are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church" How does one get building a church on Peter out of that, unless Jesus had a speech impediment or someone added the blue part.

Petros - variant (Greek?) name for Peter

Petra - old term for "rock"

It's possible that Jesus simply made a pun which people overlooked.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

FreeinChrist

CF Advisory team
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Jul 2, 2003
144,666
17,340
USA/Belize
✟1,738,735.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
MOD HAT




WOW! A thread clean up was done. If your post is missing, it is because it was in violation of the site rules or responding to a post that was. The site rules include:

Statement of Purpose and Off-Topic
Read and abide by each forum's Statement of Purpose; Statement of Purpose threads are sticky threads located at the top of the forum's page. Not all forums have a Statement of Purpose thread. Start threads that are relevant to that forum's stated purpose. Submit replies that are relevant to the topic of discussion.



The topic folks is in the OP!

The topic is NOT about what some unknown persons did what.

Stay on topic please.
 
Upvote 0

TasteForTruth

Half-truths are lies wearing makeup
Dec 2, 2010
4,799
47
✟16,765.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Nephi 15
8 For behold, the covenant which I have made with my people is not all fulfilled; but the law which was given unto Moses hath an end in me. 9 Behold, I am the law, and the light. Look unto me, and endure to the end, and ye shall live; for unto him that endureth to the end will I give eternal life.
10 Behold, I have given unto you the commandments; therefore keep my commandments. And this is the law and the prophets, for they truly testified of me.


So, Jesus pretty much told them the law had ended in him with his commandments (of love). Which is what I have come to believe as well.

Is this how the LDS see it?
The "rock" referred to in Christ's conversation with Peter was most certainly revelation, per LDS teachings:
President Howard W. Hunter (1907–95) taught: “‘And upon this rock I will build my church.’ Upon what rock? Peter? Upon a man? No, not upon a man, upon the rock of revelation, the thing which they were talking about. He had just said, ‘… flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.’ This revelation that Jesus is the Christ is the foundation upon which he would build his Church” (in Conference Report, Oct. 1965, 112; see also Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith [2007], 195). https://www.lds.org/manual/new-testament-student-manual/introduction-to-matthew/chapter-6?lang=eng
And in answer to your question about the law, Christ himself made it even more clear why revelation was the rock upon which His church was to be built:
Behold, I am the law, and the light. Look unto me, and endure to the end, and ye shall live; for unto him that endureth to the end will I give eternal life. (3 Ne. 15:5)
That Christ, himself, is the law, is the whole point. To many of the Jews of His day, Christ was an affront to the law, not the source of it. They had so long ago supplanted God with His very word (and their extrapolations, misunderstandings, misinterpretations and traditions relative to it), that not only had they made the law ineffectual for themselves, they had effectively gouged out their own spiritual eyes, thus making it difficult (if not impossible) to recognize the Lawgiver when he was right there among them.

So, the person who recognizes Christ as the law must also recognize the futility of attempting to obtain or understand the law through any other means than revelation, which is precisely how Christ taught that Peter had obtained his knowledge of Christ as the son of God. Hence, when man ceases to recognize revelation from Christ as the source of truth—which connection Christ taught must be persistently maintained to be effectual (John 15:5)—the effectiveness and truthfulness of whatever law or gospel he espouses moving forward cannot but wither like the branch severed from the vine, even though it was once a healthy source of the law and in spite of the fact that it may retain shape and color and texture recognizable as being from the still-living vine from which it has been severed.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0