a question about Christmas....(and Easter I suppose)

[S.O.J.I.A.]

So I came to the reformed faith some 4 years ago around the time the LORD saved me. I never really cared for Christmas even when I believed it was ok to celebrate it. I eventually embraced the thought that it was unlawful for believers to recognize either of these "holidays".

while reading through some things on this board that challenged the notion that Christmas had pegan origins a thought came to me. Now, I've never really thought the pegan argument to be a very good argument to begin with. my stance to not recognize the day was based on there being nothing in scripture where we are commanded to set apart a day to celebrate the nativity.

anyone can feel free to correct me if this line of argumentation isn't accurate, but the objection of RPs is that there is no biblical command or warrant to celebrate the birth of Jesus therefore the day should not be recognized. when someone asked why we have no issue with celebrating thanksgiving, we say that thanksgiving was a civil observance recognizing a providential event in history(same with the 4th of july).

my question is, why can't this same line of thinking be applied to Christmas(and easter)? We obviously believe that the birth of Jesus was a providential event in history, so if people want to celebrate this event, what's the issue? if we say that there's no command to celebrate this, there's also no command to celebrate thanksgiving or the 4th of july. Instead of seeing one set of "holidays" as civil observances and another as "holy days", why not look at all of them as civil observances since none of them were appointed by God?


thanks for your time...

 

[Beloved Pure]

Each to their own convictions.

We are not obligated to celebrate either but can if we choose as long as we do it for God and for no other reason.

I personally do not like to because I prefer to think of Jesus as a King and man not a baby.
He dies for me everytime I let him down I do not need a day to recognise that.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

So I came to the reformed faith some 4 years ago around the time the LORD saved me. I never really cared for Christmas even when I believed it was ok to celebrate it. I eventually embraced the thought that it was unlawful for believers to recognize either of these "holidays".

while reading through some things on this board that challenged the notion that Christmas had pegan origins a thought came to me. Now, I've never really thought the pegan argument to be a very good argument to begin with. my stance to not recognize the day was based on there being nothing in scripture where we are commanded to set apart a day to celebrate the nativity.

anyone can feel free to correct me if this line of argumentation isn't accurate, but the objection of RPs is that there is no biblical command or warrant to celebrate the birth of Jesus therefore the day should not be recognized. when someone asked why we have no issue with celebrating thanksgiving, we say that thanksgiving was a civil observance recognizing a providential event in history(same with the 4th of july).

my question is, why can't this same line of thinking be applied to Christmas(and easter)? We obviously believe that the birth of Jesus was a providential event in history, so if people want to celebrate this event, what's the issue? if we say that there's no command to celebrate this, there's also no command to celebrate thanksgiving or the 4th of july. Instead of seeing one set of "holidays" as civil observances and another as "holy days", why not look at all of them as civil observances since none of them were appointed by God?


thanks for your time...

There are certain groups of Reformed who are more litigious and who spend far too much time, IMO, concerned about trivial matters.

I'm Reformed, but compared to some, I'm a moderate, and I see no issue with celebrating Christmas. Of course I don't include Santa in that, but I celebrate the secular and Christian version of the holiday.

I'm prepared to be stoned for this post, but I had to encourage you that there are a spectrum of Reformed churches out there, and not all condemn the practice.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

should we see Christmas as something that no one is under obligation to recognize or not recognize?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

should we see Christmas as something that no one is under obligation to recognize or not recognize?

As you said, should we not celebrate the 4th of July?

 

[wayfaring man]

See Romans 14

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

I would, however, take issue with those who would see Christmas(......and easter) as Holy Days. Only God can appoint Holy Days and there's nothing in scripture where these days are given to us by the LORD to be such.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I would, however, take issue with those who would see Christmas(......and easter) as Holy Days. Only God can appoint Holy Days and there's nothing in scripture where these days are given to us by the LORD to be such.

The only people I personally know who treats them as holidays are Catholics. There could be others, but that's my experience.

 

[Tree of Life]

In the New Covenant era every day is equally holy. So there are no more particular holy days. Christians are free to regard certain days as "holy" so long as they are honoring the Lord with them.

 

[Sheep4Christ]

The last time my family celebrated Christmas (by celebrate I mean we put up a tree and decorated it and hung up Christmas lights and stockings) was about 20 yrs ago. We no longer celebrate in that way because we feel that the tree is like an idol and besides no one really knows if Jesus was born on the 25th of December.If was my family's choice not to celebrate based on this and other things that I won't go into. My Pastor made this comment that if people really knew the exact birth date of the Lord they probably wouldn't celebrate it anyway. The comment made sense to me because very few Christians are willing to even celebrate the days set aside in scripture such as the sabbath. Then there is the Santa Claus issue... Which I won't go into now...but I guess it's that persons choice to celebrate this day.Or not.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

In the New Covenant era every day is equally holy. So there are no more particular holy days. Christians are free to regard certain days as "holy" so long as they are honoring the Lord with them.

from a personal standpoint, sure. from universally binding on the church standpoint, no.

 

[John Hyperspace]

I don't believe it at all a problem to observe any holiday such as the ones mentioned. Someone above cited Romans 14 which is entirely apt; and I would as well point to the fact that Paul had no problem eating food sacrificed to idols; knowing that the idol is nothing: these things all come down to our own conscience: 1 Timothy 3:9, Titus 1:15, Hebrews 9:9

The problem I do have are the ones going about placing stumblingblocks before others in an attempt (voluntarily, or, as involuntarily) to cause them to stumble with a weak conscience. Especially children or, young in faith, hearing these people, and having their conscience violated by taking part in what is nothing to them that are of stronger faith. This then, becomes sin to them of weak faith. Thus the ones going about putting stumblingblocks in the way are opening the door to all manner of sin, which, is not sin; but defiles the conscience of the weak in faith. I wish we would take more care in matters, than to run about doing these things without concern for what it may be doing to siblings young in faith. If it violates your own conscience, don't do it: but don't then run about casting stumblingblocks before others because of your own conscience.

 

[wayfaring man]

There appears to be distinct, pagan influences in the manner of the way many 'celebrate' holidays, esp. Christmas and Easter.

I prefer to esteem every day alike - as holy - or 'The day that The Lord has made'. Psalms 118:24

But sometimes we are engaged with others who celebrate differently, sometimes even somewhat objectionably, though usually out of ignorance rather than malice.

Then we have to weigh whether being exposed to the discrepancies of their manner of celebration is worth being present to spend time with family etc.

Often I find it's best to - esteem the good + disesteem the evil.

Hope this helps.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

would be very interested in hearing the opinion of those who don't recognize the "holiday" on the OP.

 

[Stillicidia]

There is scripture which goes against Christmas which is Jeremiah 10, and there is scripture which goes against Easter because Jesus was around when Easter was around.

There is no point in being zealous against Christmas, even as it is simply vain, and does no real evil. God does have a sense of humor, and so there is Christmas town in Heaven with Saint Nick.

 

[~Anastasia~]

The Orthodox celebrate the Nativity of Christ, the Resurrection of Christ, and many other "holy days". They are referred to as "feast days" (which does NOT mean "we eat a lot"). Generally, a feast day is celebrated by having a Liturgy on that day where we first sing hymns that teach about the event, then we receive communion and share some fellowship. If it is a prescribed fasting day, that is usually relaxed in observance of the feast day.

NONE of these are "obligation" in the sense I think it is being asked.

They are a privilege though, and a blessing in that they are an opportunity to gather, receive communion, worship, and be taught. If someone despises that, then it would be good for them to consider why.

But no obligation. If one regards every day the same, that is their right.

 

[now faith]

would be very interested in hearing the opinion of those who don't recognize the "holiday" on the OP.

Personally I do not.
I recognize it is a holiday for retailers,to fabricate the notion we are obligated to honor it and buy their wares.
Nevertheless I have grandchildren that are excited about it.
I do not steal their joy but we do not teach Santa at all.
When I was very young my Dad who was a Baptist Preacher taught me in a wonderful way not to believe in Santa.
He brought me to a store at Christmas time,gave me a empty cart and said pick what you want this is where we get Christmas presents , we buy them for you but this year you pick what you want.
That was in the early 60s and I suppose no worries about 500 dollar video games.
Besides not teaching our Children their provider is Santa,and not Christ there is another good reason for my lesson.
There were years we simply did not have extra money to spend,we abased and abounded.
But getting little at Christmas never once bothered me,because I was taught who my provisions came from.
Keeping the Holiday in the right perspective ,
Is a win win proposition , Christ is first then a true festive season can be enjoyed.
And the Blessing of no guilt and no debt comes in January.

 

[~Anastasia~]

By the way, regarding the legend of "Santa Claus" ... I don't know how it grew to be what it was today, but the famed St. Nicholas, the Wonderworker, Archbishop of Myra in Lycia is a real person.

There was a certain formerly rich inhabitant of Patara, whom Saint Nicholas saved from great sin. The man had three grown daughters, and in desparation he planned to sell their bodies so they would have money for food. The saint, learning of the man’s poverty and of his wicked intention, secretly visited him one night and threw a sack of gold through the window. With the money the man arranged an honorable marriage for his daughter. Saint Nicholas also provided gold for the other daughters, thereby saving the family from falling into spiritual destruction. In bestowing charity, Saint Nicholas always strove to do this secretly and to conceal his good deeds.

Not exactly coming down the chimney and filling stockings of all good children with trinkets.

He is also part of the reason Arianism is condemned as a heresy -

In the year 325 Saint Nicholas was a participant in the First Ecumenical Council. This Council proclaimed the Nicean Symbol of Faith, and he stood up against the heretic Arius with the likes of Saints Sylvester the Bishop of Rome (January 2), Alexander of Alexandria (May 29), Spyridon of Trimythontos (December 12) and other Fathers of the Council.

Saint Nicholas, fired with zeal for the Lord, assailed the heretic Arius with his words, and also struck him upon the face. For this reason, he was deprived of the emblems of his episcopal rank and placed under guard. But several of the holy Fathers had the same vision, seeing the Lord Himself and the Mother of God returning to him the Gospel and omophorion. The Fathers of the Council agreed that the audacity of the saint was pleasing to God, and restored the saint to the office of bishop.

(By the way, speaking of feast days, the dates in parenthesis after each name above is the feast day of that Saint. However, in practice we don't celebrate all the Saints - rather major feasts like the Annunciation, the Nativity of Christ, Christ's baptism, the Transfiguration, the Resurrection, Pentecost, and others, and then some of the major Saints through the year, of which St. Nicholas is one.)

 

[now faith]

One more thing....
I detest Christmas songs!
After a lifetime of them playing everywhere for close to two months a year I want to pull my hair out,and there isn't much hair left to pull.
Bless God our Church plays a few but does not play them for every hymn in December.
Been there before.

 

[now faith]

By the way, regarding the legend of "Santa Claus" ... I don't know how it grew to be what it was today, but the famed St. Nicholas, the Wonderworker, Archbishop of Myra in Lycia is a real person.

There was a certain formerly rich inhabitant of Patara, whom Saint Nicholas saved from great sin. The man had three grown daughters, and in desparation he planned to sell their bodies so they would have money for food. The saint, learning of the man’s poverty and of his wicked intention, secretly visited him one night and threw a sack of gold through the window. With the money the man arranged an honorable marriage for his daughter. Saint Nicholas also provided gold for the other daughters, thereby saving the family from falling into spiritual destruction. In bestowing charity, Saint Nicholas always strove to do this secretly and to conceal his good deeds.

Not exactly coming down the chimney and filling stockings of all good children with trinkets.

He is also part of the reason Arianism is condemned as a heresy -

In the year 325 Saint Nicholas was a participant in the First Ecumenical Council. This Council proclaimed the Nicean Symbol of Faith, and he stood up against the heretic Arius with the likes of Saints Sylvester the Bishop of Rome (January 2), Alexander of Alexandria (May 29), Spyridon of Trimythontos (December 12) and other Fathers of the Council.

Saint Nicholas, fired with zeal for the Lord, assailed the heretic Arius with his words, and also struck him upon the face. For this reason, he was deprived of the emblems of his episcopal rank and placed under guard. But several of the holy Fathers had the same vision, seeing the Lord Himself and the Mother of God returning to him the Gospel and omophorion. The Fathers of the Council agreed that the audacity of the saint was pleasing to God, and restored the saint to the office of bishop.

(By the way, speaking of feast days, the dates in parenthesis after each name above is the feast day of that Saint. However, in practice we don't celebrate all the Saints - rather major feasts like the Annunciation, the Nativity of Christ, Christ's baptism, the Transfiguration, the Resurrection, Pentecost, and others, and then some of the major Saints through the year, which St. Nicholas is one.)

Yes it's true,but there are no common bonds to Santa Claus and the elves,flying deer and a trip to every house in the world in one night.
As well there are no threats for disobedience that would mirror the Gospel.