A president attacking a sovereign nation

[civilwarbuff]

No, that's not what I'm saying. There are other avenues besides assassination. You're creating a false dichotomy here.

So if we talk nice to them they will stop attacking our people? What do you suggest? Sanctions hurt them but mostly it hurts the people not the ruling class so there is limited effect in those....Making the ruling class afraid that they are next on the list can be effective but only if carried out. Before you start screaming about 'what kinda Christian are you' just remember as long as Satan is god of this world it is the world we have to live in and with.......and the leaders in Iran are not going to become Christian anytime soon so scratch that off your list.

I'm not aware of Obama targeting members of foreign governments for assassination. I know he went after terrorist leaders aggressively, and I had issues with that, but Trump's strike on Soleimani takes things a step further.

Soleimani was a terrorist leader AND a member of the Iranian government or maybe you didn't bother to read the link I posted? This was a 'twofer'.....

In the case of the Bay of Pigs and Vietnam, the government had the good grace to at least try to keep their activities secret. It doesn't make it any more right, and as I said, I'm well aware that those ideals have been compromised many times in the past, but Trump doing it openly signals to me a lack of understanding of those ideals and their significance to the country, if not a signal that he wants to totally abandon them.

No, it sends a message that terrorists can't hide behind government 'officialdom' and continue on their bloody paths....maybe, just maybe, it will slow them down....though I have to admit I won't be holding my breath....the path of true believers.....

 

[civilwarbuff]

Until now, there has been an understanding between nation states that we do not kill each others officials. With the killing of Iran's top official, the US is signaling all countries that senior officers are fair game. Additionally consider this: American military and civilian contractors are training proxy forces around the world...

Yeah, there you go.....let's just provide assurances for the upper crust and the heck with the rest of the world.

Additionally consider this: American military and civilian contractors are training proxy forces around the world...

And that is different from when?.....That is how the Cold War was fought....The 'religious terrorist' war.....we got a lot to learn.....especially civilians because they are now the primary target of terrorism.....

 

[Ana the Ist]

No, but at the same time, if they're trying to justify killing him, it would make sense to explain what they tried first that (presumably) didn't work.

Sure....if for some reason the fact that he organized, funded, and planned terrorist attacks against Americans wasn't justification enough...I suppose it would make sense to talk about the previous choices that didn't work out....you know, as kong as you're not worried about being perceived as an idiot who doesn't know what he's doing.

Of course, the flipside of that is if people don't believe killing him is justified because of all his terrorist actions....what possibly would justify it?

How about Lindsey Graham?

User Clip: Lindsey Graham: Crime not required for impeachment | C-SPAN.org

That's a misleading title

He spoke about not needing a "criminal conviction" to begin impeachment proceedings. He's correct.

I'd say both. It wasn't right from a strategic perspective because it didn't achieve much and had very high potential costs. In the end, those costs didn't really materialize due to Iran shooting down the airliner, but again, a plan working out through sheer dumb luck doesn't mean that it was a good plan. It just means that you got lucky.

You're right that no one could have planned on them shooting down a airliner. I disagree regarding the general though...he was widely considered their best strategist and he was key to their entire strategy in middle east.

If we had killed a different general, and Soleimani was still alive, I doubt they would have shot down a passenger plane.

And yes, I also think it was morally wrong. It compromises ideals that our nation has supposedly held for hundreds of years for what amounts to an act of petty revenge. I'm aware that those ideals have been compromised many times before, but this is the first time I've seen it done so brazenly and openly. That shows a total disregard for those ideals and what they stand for on the part of our President and his administration.

What ideals are you referring to? We regularly use drone to target and kill terrorists and terrorist leaders.

 

[wing2000]

Yeah, there you go.....let's just provide assurances for the upper crust and the heck with the rest of the world.

...many if not most of our Sr military officers are not from the upper crust.

And that is different from when?.....That is how the Cold War was fought....The 'religious terrorist' war.....we got a lot to learn.....especially civilians because they are now the primary target of terrorism.....

....I think you missed the point.

 

[civilwarbuff]

...many if not most of our Sr military officers are not from the upper crust.

What does that have to do with my post?

....I think you missed the point.

No, you are missing the point. The wars that have been fought have been through proxies because the nuclear powers have not wanted to confront each other because they are nuclear powers.....

 

[wing2000]

What does that have to do with my post?

No, you are missing the point. The wars that have been fought have been through proxies because the nuclear powers have not wanted to confront each other because they are nuclear powers.....

.....right, and due to our extensive training and use of proxy forces around the world, we have many would-be targets. Any country can now claim they were acting out of self defense should they decide to kill a U.S. government or military official abroad.

That was my point.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Any country can now claim they were acting out of self defense should they decide to kill a U.S. government or military official abroad.

That is the exact reason Soleimani was targeted....he was a known terrorist.

 

[Ana the Ist]

.....right, and due to our extensive training and use of proxy forces around the world, we have many would-be targets.

What proxy forces?