A population of variations of the Greatest Evolution, varies the greatest it can "evolve"?

[Gottservant]

Hi there,

So, new concept: if there is Evolution that is good, there is Evolution that is best. Conclusion: if the best is varied, the best will be prolonged. Interpretation: there is better that can be evolved, until keeping what has already been evolved becomes more important. The point being that the subtlety of what is important, needs more expression, not less.

What will a population of the Greatest Evolution do? There are trees in the world that can not be above a fixed height, not because they have failed to evolve, but because they have reached the maximum that can be evolved. A mutation that suggests they could evolve higher is as weak at the mutation that says they can branch more at that height. Neither does it make sense, that the difference be passed on, irrespective of the fact that the maximum is set for all trees. What does this tell us about the greatest Evolution? We may conclude that a mutation for deeper roots, would help but if the difference was not evolved when the maximum height was reached, how is it evolved when the roots are deepened?

The problem is it becomes a matter of convenience when something is called evolved, which runs the risk of expecting adaptation, before form is already in place. You may want to evolve a lot to begin with, but that will slow you down in the long run, because there is a maximum (in principle). The earlier you aim for the maximum, the more general you risk it being. Power is to determine the limits of the selection pressure you are adapting to, not everything is predatorial. A species that relies on numbers, will suffer loss to predation when it is there, but will have greater nuance when it comes to mating, because they have not lost their focus on staying together. Staying together ensures that the maximum is anticipated, with reflection to how hard those already adapting are finding it (the greatest Evolution).

So how hard are you finding it (the Greatest Evolution)? Are you aware how much you resonate with others attempting the same? Have you got something like the Cross, to remind you of where you are headed? Won't the Cross lead you to the Greatest Evolution, whether you or those with you keep it?

Have faith. You believe in God, believe also in Jesus.

 

[Gene2memE]

There's no 'Greatest' in evolution. There is no 'best' either.

There's better (or worse) fitted to the environment ensuring better (or worse) reproductive success. There's no absolute scale, it's all relative and related to the situation the organism faces.

Good in evolution means 'confers a reproductive advantage'. There's no 'greatest' or 'best' reproductive success - most stuff in evolution comes at a trade off.

Take your tree example - tree height is mot important when there is competition for light.

In an environment of many trees clustered together and competing for light, rapid growth and height confer reproductive benefits.

In a situation where there isn't competition for light, and instead there is competition for water (like the African savannah, or the plains of Australia), deep growing and wide pattern roots confer a benefit. Height and/or rapid growth may be a negative trait - energy spent growing fast and tall could be better spent sending roots deep and wide. So a tall tree in an environment such as this would be at a disadvantage compared to a stout tree with a good root system.

 

[Gottservant]

There's no 'Greatest' in evolution.

How do you say there is no greatest, as if saying there is no greatest is the greatest.

There is no 'best' either.

A potential mate, does not select "the best"?

Take your tree example - tree height is mo(s)t important when there is competition for light.

Two trees reaching maximum height, cannot compete for height - that is my point.

In an environment of many trees clustered together and competing for light, rapid growth and height confer reproductive benefits.

In a situation where there isn't competition for light, and instead there is competition for water (like the African savannah, or the plains of Australia), deep growing and wide pattern roots confer a benefit. Height and/or rapid growth may be a negative trait - energy spent growing fast and tall could be better spent sending roots deep and wide. So a tall tree in an environment such as this would be at a disadvantage compared to a stout tree with a good root system.

As I said similarly, the mutation may change, but what evidence is there that that "change" is "Evolution"? Surely it is that you have encountered something that does not change, and you have evaluated something that also changed, in reference to it. Your faith is that calling something
Evolution" won't change, once it is understood that "Evolution is the best you can call it"? I'm not saying that is wrong, but you need to call "faith" faith. Then we can evaluate the strength of your faith, whether it is true to the Maximum faith you can ask for?

 

[Gene2memE]

As I said similarly, the mutation may change, but what evidence is there that that "change" is "Evolution"?

Because that's definitionally what evolution is. A change in the inherited characteristics of a population over time. That change is inherited characteristics is the result of mutation.

 

[Shemjaza]

Hi there,

So, new concept: if there is Evolution that is good, there is Evolution that is best.

Perhaps best of the available variations for that specific environment, but that does not imply some kind "best" in an absolute sense.

This means that "Maximum Evolution" is not a valid concept.

Conclusion: if the best is varied, the best will be prolonged.

Environments and the populations in them are constantly changing, so best will not be prolonged.

Interpretation: there is better that can be evolved, until keeping what has already been evolved becomes more important. The point being that the subtlety of what is important, needs more expression, not less.

I'm not sure I'm following your point here.

Competition is complicated and many traits come together to make an organism.

Something that was very advantageous for its ancestors may become a problem as the species and environment shifts.

What will a population of the Greatest Evolution do? There are trees in the world that can not be above a fixed height, not because they have failed to evolve, but because they have reached the maximum that can be evolved. A mutation that suggests they could evolve higher is as weak at the mutation that says they can branch more at that height. Neither does it make sense, that the difference be passed on, irrespective of the fact that the maximum is set for all trees. What does this tell us about the greatest Evolution? We may conclude that a mutation for deeper roots, would help but if the difference was not evolved when the maximum height was reached, how is it evolved when the roots are deepened?

We're back to the problem of calling something the Greatest Evolution.

In a particular environment there might be a maximum tree height, but that doesn't imply anything in particular for trees in general.

The problem is it becomes a matter of convenience when something is called evolved, which runs the risk of expecting adaptation, before form is already in place. You may want to evolve a lot to begin with, but that will slow you down in the long run, because there is a maximum (in principle). The earlier you aim for the maximum, the more general you risk it being. Power is to determine the limits of the selection pressure you are adapting to, not everything is predatorial. A species that relies on numbers, will suffer loss to predation when it is there, but will have greater nuance when it comes to mating, because they have not lost their focus on staying together. Staying together ensures that the maximum is anticipated, with reflection to how hard those already adapting are finding it (the greatest Evolution).

You've made mistakes again.

Evolution is not a decision and does not apply to individuals.

So how hard are you finding it (the Greatest Evolution)? Are you aware how much you resonate with others attempting the same? Have you got something like the Cross, to remind you of where you are headed? Won't the Cross lead you to the Greatest Evolution, whether you or those with you keep it?

The Greatest Evolution doesn't exist... and evolution doesn't apply to individuals or choice.

Have faith. You believe in God, believe also in Jesus.

I don't, but i hope your faith and belief bring you comfort.

 

[Gottservant]

I mean isn't this what mating season is all about: proving you are as close to the Maximum Evolution you can be?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I mean isn't this what mating season is all about: proving you are as close to the Maximum Evolution you can be?

No, not in the slightest.

 

[Shemjaza]

I mean isn't this what mating season is all about: proving you are as close to the Maximum Evolution you can be?

No competition for mates is just one possible avenue for success for a sexual species.

It doesn't necessarily demonstrate fitness in any other area.

 

[Frank Robert]

So, new concept: if there is Evolution that is good, there is Evolution that is best. Conclusion: if the best is

You need to review your jr hs text on evolution.

There is no 'best evolution,' evolution is trial and error for what works. Don't believe it? See:
Nathan Lents - Human Errors: A Panorama of Our Glitches, from Pointless Bones to Broken Genes.

 

[Frank Robert]

How do you say there is no greatest, as if saying there is no greatest is the greatest.



A potential mate, does not select "the best"?

No. Men and women repeatedly date people who are addicted, unavailable, abusive, prone to infidelity, etc. Whatever the issue, ..

Two trees reaching maximum height, cannot compete for height - that is my point.

Which may not be so good for shorter trees when their sunlight is being blocked by the tallest trees.

As I said similarly, the mutation may change, but what evidence is there that that "change" is "Evolution"?

You need to review you jr hs textbook on evolution.

Surely it is that you have encountered something that does not change, and you have evaluated something that also changed, in reference to it. Your faith is that calling something
Evolution" won't change, once it is understood that "Evolution is the best you can call it"? I'm not saying that is wrong, but you need to call "faith" faith. Then we can evaluate the strength of your faith, whether it is true to the Maximum faith you can ask for?

Why do creationists double and tipple down on science being faith when it only devalues their own faith. Think about it 'its only faith.'

 

[Larniavc]

So, new concept: if there is Evolution that is good, there is Evolution that is best. Conclusion: if the best is varied, the best will be prolonged.

Doesn’t follow.

 

[chilehed]

if there is Evolution that is good,...

"If".

Your post and the poll are meaningless gobbledygook.

 

[Gottservant]

The problem for you guys, is that you think more Evolution is coming - without Jesus, it is not.

 

[Gottservant]

What seems evident to me, is that if a tree reaches its greatest height and it mutates, that mutation is going to form a "glut" of mutation, that doesn't help the tree evolve at all?

If you are at the maximum height and someone says "go higher" you are completely in your rights to say 'you're crazy'.

Well? Do you want me to say that??

 

[AV1611VET]

What seems evident to me, is that if a tree reaches its greatest height and it mutates, that mutation is going to form a "glut" of mutation, that doesn't help the tree evolve at all?

In essence, are you saying it stunted its own growth?

 

[Shemjaza]

The problem for you guys, is that you think more Evolution is coming - without Jesus, it is not.

We have evidence for all the necessary components of evolution to continue as long as life does.

Also, given that it is not concerned with salvation or even choice I fail to see how Jesus is relevant.

What seems evident to me, is that if a tree reaches its greatest height and it mutates, that mutation is going to form a "glut" of mutation, that doesn't help the tree evolve at all?

If you are at the maximum height and someone says "go higher" you are completely in your rights to say 'you're crazy'.

Well? Do you want me to say that??

No one want you to say that because it is simply false.

Mutation as it is relevant to evolution is not an effect that occurs within the lifetime of a single living tree, human or anything else.

Gottservant, I've told you before nothing ever chooses to evolve, because individuals do not evolve.

You are wrong, and you need to attempt to stop spreading lies.

Even in species a glut of mutation doesn't make sense. As long as there is reproduction there is possible for more variation to develop in the species.

 

[Gottservant]

[...]
Even in species a glut of mutation doesn't make sense. As long as there is reproduction there is possible for more variation to develop in the species.

I must admit I thought you would take a simpler approach, when it comes to the outgrowth of mutation. I thought that once you saw mutation was a bad thing, you would opt to minimize it. Instead you have given me a neutral response, which is humbling, but no less confusing (at least at first).

 

[Shemjaza]

I must admit I thought you would take a simpler approach, when it comes to the outgrowth of mutation. I thought that once you saw mutation was a bad thing, you would opt to minimize it. Instead you have given me a neutral response, which is humbling, but no less confusing (at least at first).

Mutations are not inherently good or bad for survival. In fact the majority are neutral.

 

[Gottservant]

Mutations are not inherently good or bad for survival. In fact the majority are neutral.

Yes, but you are not going to say "the mutation that lead ultimately to cancer, made my urgency to 'mate' constructively "greater""? Are you?

I mean at some point you have to acknowledge what is genuinely 'more' helpful?

About to get cancer, you are honestly going to say "it helps me adapt"??

 

[Larniavc]

The problem for you guys, is that you think more Evolution is coming - without Jesus, it is not.

Evolution has not been shown to require Jesus.