A perfect example of how Satan deceives the church

[BCsenior]

People on Christians forums have told me countless times
that they are “overcomers” because of these verses:

1 John 5:4-5
“For whatever is born of God overcomes the world.
And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith.
Who is he who overcomes the world,
but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?”

However, when John talks about “the world”
he is talking about the world of non-believers.

Yes, believers have indeed overcome the disastrous situation of all non-believers!
Believers have overcome non-believers because they have been born-again.

Jesus warns believers in all 7 churches in Revelation 2-3 to be overcomers!
Don’t these church members believe that Jesus is the Son of God?
Of course they do … but, that is NOT what Jesus is referring to.

Here is Jesus’ definition of who an overcomer really is:
Revelation 3:21
“To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne,
as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.”

What did Jesus overcome?
He overcame sin, the flesh, the world, the devil, persecution, etc.
The same things we need to overcome.

Another devastating example of how Satan has deceived the church

The false doctrine that believers have a free ride into heaven
without any responsibility or accountability whatsoever … via …
false doctrines such as: OSAS, grace-only, hyper-grace, easy-believism, etc.

Their current favorite verses to clutch onto, such as Ephesians 2:8-9,
are only entry-points to salvation; they are NOT the final exit-point.

Matthew 7:13-14 ● “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is
the way that leads to destruction (eternal death), and there are many who go in by it.
Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to (eternal) life,
and there are few who find it.”
Walking down the narrow and difficult way is NOT just believing in Jesus.

Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord’, shall enter the kingdom of heaven,
but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day,
‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name,
and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them,
‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ ”
Lawlessness refers to sinning, NOT following God’s laws, etc.
W. E. Vine says “knew” means “approved of”.
They never did God’s will, and they never practiced righteousness.

 

[BCsenior]

Jesus gives His invitation for fellowship to all believers:
Revelation 3:20
“Behold, I stand at the door and knock.
If anyone hears My voice and opens the door,
I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.”
Some people have also used this as an invitation to unbelievers.

Let us understand these passages:

John 17:3
“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God,
and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.”
Do you know your Father in heaven, and Jesus your Lord and Savior?

John 10:27-28
“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish …”
Do you hear Jesus’ voice?
Does He know (approve of) you?
Do you follow Jesus?

In the days ahead, it will be CRITICAL to be able to hear God’s voice!
We will need to hear His instructions of what to do, where to go, when to go, etc.

And here’s another warning to NOT reject any of the NT verses,
even if they don’t don’t agree with your church’s doctrines! lol
All NT verses are reconciled by understanding that …
true saving NT “belief” includes being faithful and obedient to God’s commands!

 

[AlexDTX]

People on Christians forums have told me countless times
that they are “overcomers” because of these verses:

1 John 5:4-5
“For whatever is born of God overcomes the world.
And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith.
Who is he who overcomes the world,
but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?”

However, when John talks about “the world”
he is talking about the world of non-believers.

Yes, believers have indeed overcome the disastrous situation of all non-believers!
Believers have overcome non-believers because they have been born-again.

Jesus warns believers in all 7 churches in Revelation 2-3 to be overcomers!
Don’t these church members believe that Jesus is the Son of God?
Of course they do … but, that is NOT what Jesus is referring to.

Here is Jesus’ definition of who an overcomer really is:
Revelation 3:21
“To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne,
as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.”

What did Jesus overcome?
He overcame sin, the flesh, the world, the devil, persecution, etc.
The same things we need to overcome.

Another devastating example of how Satan has deceived the church

The false doctrine that believers have a free ride into heaven
without any responsibility or accountability whatsoever … via …
false doctrines such as: OSAS, grace-only, hyper-grace, easy-believism, etc.

Their current favorite verses to clutch onto, such as Ephesians 2:8-9,
are only entry-points to salvation; they are NOT the final exit-point.

Matthew 7:13-14 ● “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is
the way that leads to destruction (eternal death), and there are many who go in by it.
Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to (eternal) life,
and there are few who find it.”
Walking down the narrow and difficult way is NOT just believing in Jesus.

Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord’, shall enter the kingdom of heaven,
but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day,
‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name,
and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them,
‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ ”
Lawlessness refers to sinning, NOT following God’s laws, etc.
W. E. Vine says “knew” means “approved of”.
They never did God’s will, and they never practiced righteousness.

Very well put. I could not have said it better.

 

[mkgal1]

I didn't read past this quote, because I got hung up on this:

However, when John talks about “the world”
he is talking about the world of non-believers.

....and I disagree about that.

As believers - we can be believing things "of this world". Our sanctification is a process that demands our cooperation. I think that "of this world" can be better described as things that are in opposition to Truth.

For example: I was listening to a sermon this morning that was about Instagram theology and this idea of "good vibes only" and how people try to avoid conflict and hardships in their lives at all cost. THAT is an example of something "of this world" (the lie that we can live with "good vibes only" and thrive) and it's a lie that we can (even if unintentionally) be holding onto that can cause us to remain immature spiritually (to the possible harm of others).

 

[CharismaticLady]

People on Christians forums have told me countless times
that they are “overcomers” because of these verses:

1 John 5:4-5
“For whatever is born of God overcomes the world.
And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith.
Who is he who overcomes the world,
but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?”

However, when John talks about “the world”
he is talking about the world of non-believers.

Yes, believers have indeed overcome the disastrous situation of all non-believers!
Believers have overcome non-believers because they have been born-again.

Jesus warns believers in all 7 churches in Revelation 2-3 to be overcomers!
Don’t these church members believe that Jesus is the Son of God?
Of course they do … but, that is NOT what Jesus is referring to.

Here is Jesus’ definition of who an overcomer really is:
Revelation 3:21
“To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne,
as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.”

What did Jesus overcome?
He overcame sin, the flesh, the world, the devil, persecution, etc.
The same things we need to overcome.

Another devastating example of how Satan has deceived the church

The false doctrine that believers have a free ride into heaven
without any responsibility or accountability whatsoever … via …
false doctrines such as: OSAS, grace-only, hyper-grace, easy-believism, etc.

Their current favorite verses to clutch onto, such as Ephesians 2:8-9,
are only entry-points to salvation; they are NOT the final exit-point.

Matthew 7:13-14 ● “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is
the way that leads to destruction (eternal death), and there are many who go in by it.
Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to (eternal) life,
and there are few who find it.”
Walking down the narrow and difficult way is NOT just believing in Jesus.

Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord’, shall enter the kingdom of heaven,
but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day,
‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name,
and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them,
‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ ”
Lawlessness refers to sinning, NOT following God’s laws, etc.
W. E. Vine says “knew” means “approved of”.
They never did God’s will, and they never practiced righteousness.

Have you noticed how many forum members who believe in Jesus also call themselves sinners, and attack anyone who believes that Jesus has taken away our sin? They seem to believe sanctification is a life-long process of overcoming sin, rather than it meaning being set apart unto God as soon as we are cleansed of all sin. There is a "process" but it is called glorification - becoming more and more mature in the divine nature. Here is the process:

2 Peter 1:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[mkgal1]

They seem to believe sanctification is a life-long process of overcoming sin, rather than it meaning being set apart unto God as soon as we are cleansed of all sin. There is a "process" but it is called glorification - becoming more and more mature in the divine nature.

Being "cleansed of all sin" doesn't mean that we no longer sin and hurt others (or ourselves). We're just forgiven and not condemned because of our sin.

For anyone that's interested.....I'm going to share the sermon I listened to this morning, I believe it's well worth a listen (and is relevant to the topic). Here's the link. I wish I could locate a transcript:


Good Vibes Only

 

[CharismaticLady]

We're just forgiven and not condemned because of our sin.

I'm sorry this is what you've been taught. It isn't true and the most common deadly false doctrine of demons that has developed in the Church. Re-read the New Testament with an open mind. In other words, ask God what is the meaning of His Word as the Author, and throw away all denominational teachings. You'll be amazed. What have you got to lose? You just might gain freedom from sin and gain salvation.

The real truth is Jesus frees us from sins of lawlessness. It is not in our nature to break any of the commandments of God. They are sins unto death.

But the Bible teaches a different sin that you were talking about. The ability to hurt others called "trespasses." Your church doesn't believe this doctrine of the Bible, even though the apostles taught it. Your church believes all sin is sin, and is clueless as to how God sees them. Trespasses are sins, but not unto death. (1 John 5:16-17) The difference is our knowledge and motive. (Leviticus 5:15). They are unwittingly committed. And as long as we forgive others their trespasses against us, the Father will forgive our trespasses. Learning how God thinks and views sin is major.

Read 1 John 3, the whole chapter and see if you are forgiven of sins you keep committing? Also John 8:32-36

 

[mkgal1]

I'm sorry this is what you've been taught. It isn't true and the most common deadly false doctrine of demons that has developed in the Church. Re-read the New Testament with an open mind. In other words, ask God what is the meaning of His Word as the Author, and throw away all denominational teachings. You'll be amazed. What have you got to lose? You just might gain freedom from sin and gain salvation.

I don't understand your protestation.

Are you implying that you DON'T sin any longer....or what? The only other thing I can think of is that you believe we still ARE condemned because of our sin. You quoted this (so I presume this is specifically what you are suggesting is not true):

We're just forgiven and not condemned because of our sin.

...can you elaborate on your point? Suggesting that I "re-read the NT with an open mind" and for me to "ask God what is the meaning of His Word as the Author" suggests that I've NOT read seeking Truth.....ever - so that's not going to help me understand your point any better (it's merely an insult, really, based on opinion). ​

 

[CharismaticLady]

I don't understand your protestation.

Are you implying that you DON'T sin any longer....or what? The only other thing I can think of is that you believe we still ARE condemned because of our sin. You quoted this (so I presume this is specifically what you are suggesting is not true):

...can you elaborate on your point? Suggesting that I "re-read the NT with an open mind" and for me to "ask God what is the meaning of His Word as the Author" suggests that I've NOT read seeking Truth.....ever - so that's not going to help me understand your point any better (it's merely an insult, really, based on opinion). ​

Let's talk after you read all the additions I did to my post you just responded to. Respond to it again after you reread it.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I don't understand your protestation.

Are you implying that you DON'T sin any longer....or what? The only other thing I can think of is that you believe we still ARE condemned because of our sin. You quoted this (so I presume this is specifically what you are suggesting is not true):

...can you elaborate on your point? Suggesting that I "re-read the NT with an open mind" and for me to "ask God what is the meaning of His Word as the Author" suggests that I've NOT read seeking Truth.....ever - so that's not going to help me understand your point any better (it's merely an insult, really, based on opinion). ​

Did you re-read my edited post?

 

[mkgal1]

The real truth is Jesus frees us from sins of lawlessness. It is not in our nature to break any of the commandments of God. They are sins unto death.

But the Bible teaches a different sin that you were talking about. The ability to hurt others called "trespasses." Your church doesn't believe this doctrine of the Bible, even though the apostles taught it. Your church believes all sin is sin, and is clueless as to how God sees them. Trespasses are sins, but not unto death. (1 John 5:16-17) The difference is our knowledge and motive. (Leviticus 5:15). They are unwittingly committed. And as long as we forgive others their trespasses against us, the Father will forgive our trespasses. Learning how God thinks and views sin is major.

Read 1 John 3, the whole chapter and see if you are forgiven of sins you keep committing? Also John 8:32-36

I have no idea what you're going on about. "My church"? You're referring to the Anglican/Episcopal church? "Is clueless as to how God sees them"?

I'm not referring to forgiveness.....but I'm pretty certain God doesn't wish for His followers to go around trampling and harming others.....making the statement in their wake of destruction "forgive me as the Father forgives".

 

[BCsenior]

BC: However, when John talks about “the world”
he is talking about the world of non-believers.

....and I disagree about that.

But, I'm not talking about us, or about any sermon.
I'm talking about what John means when he says "the world".

 

[mkgal1]

Did you re-read my edited post?

Yes.....it's still not getting much more clarified however.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I have no idea what you're going on about. "My church"? You're referring to the Anglican/Episcopal church? "Is clueless as to how God sees them"?

I'm not referring to forgiveness.....but I'm pretty certain God doesn't wish for His followers to go around trampling and harming others.....making the statement in their wake of destruction "forgive me as the Father forgives".

First, was I correct in my understanding of what you said when you said, "We're just forgiven and not condemned because of our sin." that our sins are automatically forgiven AS WE CONTINUE TO COMMIT THEM?

 

[mkgal1]

But, I'm not talking about us, or about any sermon.
I'm talking about what John means when he says "the world".

I only mentioned the sermon as it seems to me to make the point more understandable. I still don't see that as what St. John was saying.

 

[mkgal1]

First, was I correct in my understanding of what you said when you said, "We're just forgiven and not condemned because of our sin." that our sins are automatically forgiven AS WE CONTINUE TO COMMIT THEM?

I don't know.....because I am not fully comprehending what YOUR understanding even is???

My original point was this:

Being "cleansed of all sin" doesn't mean that we no longer sin and hurt others (or ourselves).

 

[BCsenior]

Being "cleansed of all sin" doesn't mean that we no longer sin and hurt others (or ourselves).
We're just forgiven and not condemned because of our sin.

Being "cleansed of all sin" in 1 John 1:9 occurs after we confess our sins.
John neglects to mention repentance also ... to stop doing them!
What good is confession without repentance also?

 

[BCsenior]

Read 1 John 3, the whole chapter and see if you are forgiven of sins you keep committing? Also John 8:32-36

I got as far as ...
1 John 3:
1 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.
2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

Please notice that we must continue to purify ourselves (1 John 3:3).
This is referring to the process of sanctification ...
which begins after we have been positionally sanctified (set apart).

 

[mkgal1]

Being "cleansed of all sin" in 1 John 1:9 occurs after we confess our sins.
John neglects to mention repentance also ... to stop doing them!
What good is confession without repentance also?

I don't believe St John was negligent. I think this discussion is conflating "salvation" with "justification". We've been forgiven.....but we ought not use that as freedom to sin (and harm others). If "trespasses" is a more acceptable word - then I'm fully on board with that. Don't use that as a license to "trespass" against others.

1 John 4:19 ~ We love because He first loved us.

Romans 5:8 ~ But God proves His own love for in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us!​

 

[BCsenior]

I don't believe St John was negligent.
I think this discussion is conflating "salvation" with "justification".
We've been forgiven.....but we ought not use that as freedom to sin (and harm others).

What do you think about Peter's 3 verses? ...

“For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness,
and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his OLD sins.
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call
and election sure, for IF you do these things you will never stumble;
for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting
kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” (2 Peter 1:9-11, NKJV)
“OLD sins” is also in the KJV, RSV, NLT, AMP

“having forgotten his purification from his FORMER sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NASB)
“FORMER sins” is also in the ESV

“forgetting that they have been cleansed from their PAST sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NIV)
“PAST sins” is also in the HCSB

 

[CharismaticLady]

I don't know.....because I am not fully comprehending what YOUR understanding even is???

My original point was this:

I know my post seems to insult you, but I don't know how else to warn those whose denominations teach we will always be sinners. But I may be wrong. I don't know if Anglicans/Episcopals come under the umbrella of Calvinism, Arminianism or neither. Google says neither, so how does your church interpret 1 John 3:5?

5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

Does that mean we cannot commit sin as verse 9 says, or that we do commit sin, but it is not imputed to us?