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Featured A People who keep the Faith

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by keras, Jun 5, 2018.

  1. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    A people who keep the faith, righteous Christians:
    The Kingdom will be taken from you, [Judah] and given to a people who bear the proper fruit. Matthew 21:43

    Isaiah 26:11 Lord; Your hand is lifted high, let the fire reserved for Your enemies consume them. The godless cannot see how You will protect Your people.

    Isaiah 26:20-21 Go My people, enter your rooms and shut the doors after you. Withdraw for a little while, until the Lord’s wrath has passed. The Lord is coming from His dwelling place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their sins. Then the earth will show the blood shed on it and hide the slain no more.

    Isaiah 25:9 On that Day, Your people will say: See, this is our God, we have waited for Him and He will deliver us, let us rejoice and exult in His deliverance.

    Isaiah 25:1-3 God Almighty, You are my God, I shall praise You, for You have done wonderful things – long planned, certain and sure. You have turned cities into heaps of rubble, their houses swept away – never to be rebuilt. For this, many a cruel nation is in awe of You.

    Isaiah 26:16-19 In our distress, Lord, we sought You out, chastened by the whisper of Your rebuke. As a woman with child cries out in her pains, so were we because of You, Lord. Our labour has been in vain, we achieved nothing for Your Land or people. But Your dead will live, those long dead who lay in the earth, will rise again, they will arise and shout for joy.

    Isaiah 25:4-5 Truly, You have been a refuge to the poor and needy in their distress, their shelter from the tempest, shade from the heat. For the attack of the godless gets them nowhere and You silence the uproar of our enemies.

    Isaiah 26:15 Lord, You have enlarged the nation and won honour for Yourself. You have extended all the frontiers of this country.

    Isaiah 26:1-2 On that Day this song will be sung in Judah; We have a strong city – Open the gates, let a righteous nation enter, a people who kept the faith.
    Reference: REB, NIV, KJV. Some verses abridged


    The Lord’s hand of judgement is ready to strike, the fire reserved for Your enemies will consume them. Isaiah 66:15-16, Malachi 4:1, Revelation 6:12-17

    for the attack of the godless gets them nowhere, The fulfilment of Psalms 83, Micah 4:11-12, Jeremiah 49:35-37

    Whole cities are destroyed and those killed will lie unburied. Amos 1:1-15, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Jeremiah 9:22, Ezekiel 21:1-7, Isaiah 17:1

    But the Lord will be a refuge for His righteous people. Psalms 62:5-8, Zephaniah 2:3

    ..shade from the heat, they; withdraw for a little while,– take shelter from the fire reserved for His enemies, a huge Coronal Mass Ejection fireball, that will destroy them.
    Isaiah 30:26-30, Proverbs 3:25-26, Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:7

    Then: a righteous nation enters, Matthew 21:43, into all of the holy Land area, as promised to the Patriarchs, by descent or grafted in by faith. Galatians 3:36-29 They will live in the new country of Beulah in peace and prosperity. Isaiah 62:1-5, Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-31, Jeremiah 31:10-14, Isaiah 27:6, Ezekiel 28:24-26

    They are all the faithful Christians from every race, nation and language, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Revelation 7:9, who will fulfill their destiny to be a light to the nations and His witnesses to the world. Isaiah 43:10-12, John 15:27, Isaiah 66:19

    Your dead will rise again This happens later, Jesus will bring the souls of the dead martyrs with Him at His Return. Revelation 6:9-11, Revelation 20:4 and then, after the Millennium. all who have ever lived will stand before God in Judgement. Revelation 20:11-15
     
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  2. Anderson Corey

    Anderson Corey New Member

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    nice post! it is awesome and I loved it so much. Believing in God always help you.
     
  3. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    You left out the resurrection and rapture of 1Thessalonians4:15-18 which continues into 1Thesslaonians5 as to when.
     
  4. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    I disagree that 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 is a resurrection, let alone a 'rapture to heaven'.
    You must assume that, as the text does not say it. It is a relocation of those Christians who remain alive at the Return of Jesus. As Matthew 24:31 says.

    As the prophecy of the OP says; our destiny, as faithful Christians, is to be the people God always wanted in His holy Land, but has never had.

    1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 is another warning to us about the forthcoming Lord's Day of wrath, when: provided we wear the armor of faith, we won't be affected by this retribution that will destroy God's enemies.
     
  5. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I have never heard anyone make a denial of what is beyond clear in the text to it being a resurrection of the dead in Christ in 1Thessalonians4:15-18. Is your belief found in any particular denomination or group as part of their teachings?
     
  6. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout......and the dead in Christ shall rise first.
    This is paralleled in Revelation 20:4....those killed for their faith by the 'beast', will come to life again and reign with Christ for 1000 years.
    Revelation 20:5 then goes on to say that the rest of the dead do not rise until the GWT Judgement. Rev 20:1-15
    So there is no general resurrection of Christians at Jesus' return. And the martyrs are just brought back to life, not given immortality. They may die again, as Lazarus did.
    I simply believe what the Bible actually says. I discard any mans theories or fables and I recommend that you and all Christians do the same.
     
  7. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The resurrected great tribulation martyrs don't participate at the Great White Throne judgment. The martyrs's souls are seen in heaven, unlike Lazarus.

    The resurrected great tribulation martyrs reign with Christ for a thousand years, not dying off, - so they are in their eternal life bodies.

    Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
     
  8. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Correct, as per Revelation 6:9-11, but everyone who has ever lived will be at the GWT and it is only then that the Book of Life is opened and immortality conferred to those whose names are found written in it.
    This is just your assumption. Maybe they do live for the 1000 years; note Isaiah 65:20.
    Second death? This refers to the Lake of Fire; Revelation 20:14
    Therefore those who will participate in the first resurrection, the GT martyrs, need not fear the LoF, because their names are in the Book of Life.

    Dougg, I suggest that you seriously reconsider you beliefs, to conform to what scripture actually says, rather than what you may want it to.
     
  9. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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  10. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Don't the Words: And I saw all the dead, great and small, standing before the Throne....Revelation 20:12, mean anything to you?
    The Bema Throne, Matthew 25:31-46, is all about Jesus separating the peoples, the survivors of the world, into two groups. Their rewards and punishments are decreed.
    We know that in verse 46; the eternal punishment for the wicked and eternal life for the righteous, will happen 1000 years later. Only then is Death no more. Revelation 21:1-7

    You 77s, are another who reads scripture the way you want to.
    Note well; that Jesus Returns with all His holy angels..... Matthew 25:31 And the fact is His sheep are on earth, along with the goats.
    How does this truth fit with your 'rapture to heaven' scenario?
     
  11. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Keras, them who have received Jesus have passed from judgment to life. John 5:24.

    Concerning the resurrection of Christians, there are three circumstances, only one of which takes place at the Great White Throne judgment.

    1. The resurrection accompanied by the rapture in 1Thessalonians4:15-18. Sometime before the Day of the Lord begins.

    2. The resurrection of them who become Christians after the Day of the Lord begins, and are martyred for not worshiping the beast, or taking the mark of his name, the number of his name, or his name. At the beginning of the 1000 year reign with Jesus.

    3. For the Great White Throne judgment, as far as Christian go, the resurrection of persons who become Christians during the millennium. some dying, some still alive at the end. There will have to be some sort of translation of the living, but I would not call it a rapture.

    Also, there will be the resurrection of them who were mentally incapable, or had not reached an age or point of accountability, or never had a chance to hear the gospel. There are probably other circumstances. At the Great White Throne judgment, them whose names are found written in the Lamb's book of life will receive their everlasting eternal bodies.
    _________________________________________________________________________
    If a person experiences either 1 or 2, then they are done with being judged. And they will already have their eternal everlasting bodies.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2018
  12. Serving Zion

    Serving Zion Seek First His Kingdom & Righteousness

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    I just feel that you can't be right to say this about Judah, for a number of reasons, but at least Revelation 5:5. If you insist though, could you show me why you have thought to present that interpretation? Thank you :)
     
  13. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    I didn't say it; Jesus did.
    Your concern for the Jewish people is commendable, but misplaced, because they are no longer the chosen people. They unchose themselves; Matthew 27:25
    We know who are God's chosen people now; 1 Peter 2:9-10, John 15:19 and there is only one people of God. Ephesians 4:4-6, John 10:16,+
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2018
  14. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Right, John 3:16 proves your point. It is the great promise for all who believe in Jesus.
    But we don't receive immortality yet. That happens at the Great White Throne Judgement, after the Millennium.
    There is neither a general resurrection or a rapture to heaven in that scripture.
    Revelation 13:3-4 says that very few, if any people become Christian during the Great Tribulation.
    Paul explains what happens at the GWT. Some people will be alive then and they will never experience death. 1 Corinthians 15:51
    That is where you are wrong. Their names are in the Book of Life, but until that Book is opened- no one has immortality. Also be aware that a persons name can be erased from that book if they commit sin. Psalms 69:28
     
  15. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    That is error on your interpretation , it happens when people refuse to acknowledge there are people of God that have a lack of understanding of all of scripture and the history of Israel
    This nonsense to say they are no longer a chosen people and the foolish attempts to reject Israel can fit the terms of apostasy/rebellion that occurs just prior to Jesus return as good as anything else can - It is the Lord who will decide who is chosen !
     
  16. Serving Zion

    Serving Zion Seek First His Kingdom & Righteousness

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    You inserted the word Judah into the text where the writer of the text did not place it. I do not understand why you have done this. The text does not say that Judah rejected Jesus, but that the Religious Leaders and the elders of the people stirred up the mob to ask for Barabbas and to crucify Jesus (Matthew 27:20).

    There was a large number of the Judean people, (ie: many from the tribe of Judah), who had just been laying palm branches on the road and hailing "Hosana!" as Jesus entered Jerusalem (John 12:9-15). They were opposed by the Religious Leaders (John 12:10). These ones, who thought Him a saviour but were not of the ruling class, were most likely caught unaware of the plot to condemn Him before they were able to intervene (the text shows that only His inner-circle of disciples were forewarned: Matthew 26:31).

    I still have not understood why you believe that the prophecy was spoken against Judah (who is a tribe of Israel - Genesis 35:23, and a kingdom of the lineage of King David - 2 Samuel 2:4, Joel 3, of whom Jesus Christ descended and has been appointed to reign on the throne as Messiah - Luke 1:32, Malachi 3:1-4).

    I see that in Matthew 21:43, Jesus is addressing the evil in the religious leaders just as He addressed the evil in St Peter at Mark 8:33. This will be achieved when the whole earth is full of the knowledge of Adonai, so at that time, all evil and conflict has passed away (Isaiah 11:6-9, Revelation 21:3-4).
     
  17. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    You contradict yourself.
    Accusing me of not knowing all of scripture and the history of Israel, is a typical response of those who have their beliefs challenged. Your belief of a 'rapture to heaven' of the church, leads you into the error of thinking the Lord will save ethnic Israel, as they remain on earth.
    Then you say the Lord decides who is chosen. He did that already, John 15:16...a chosen people who will bear fruit..... The fruit of spreading the Gospel and being a Light to the nations. Who does that? The Jews? No way, they still reject Jesus.

    Scripture is plain; it is only the faithful Christians who are the people of God. Every other person in the world who reject the Gospel, are not.
    Ethnicity has no value, Paul makes that plain in Ephesians 2:11-18.
    We Christians are the children of Abraham by faith. Galatians 3:26-29
     
  18. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    As usual you misinterpret for the sake of what you prefer
    Even now you show you do not understand , you are guilty of judging millions of people that you will never meet and never know , Just as Jesus taught that if one sheep left the fold he would go find that lost sheep and bring it back , Jesus knows who of the Jews will come to him and who will not , just as He knows what gentiles will come to him and who will not , there are many many could be a billion people who rejected Jesus for much of their lives and then one day they gave their life unto Jesus and live for him the rest of their lives
    You have so much to learn
     
  19. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Judah refers to the Jewish people, or more specifically to the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin. There were some from the other tribes and other nations, who have joined them and became Jewish too.
    Today, there is no proof of ancestry to Abraham for anyone and the fact is that after 100 + generations, we all have some of his genes.

    In Matthew 21:43, plainly, Jesus was speaking to the people who had rejected Him, so not all the Jews then, as is the case today. But there was then and is now, only a very small minority of Messianic Jews. Jesus also said: Bring those people who did not want Me for their King and slaughter them before Me. Luke 19:27
    There is many prophesies that tell of a forthcoming Judgement/punishment of Judah and only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27
     
  20. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    The Bible prophets do not say there will be a general redemption of the Jewish people.
    I don't 'interpret' what the Bible says, it is you that does that, when you say the Jews are the Lord's people.
    Look at them now; they display just about the opposite of what Christians should be. They are in the holy Land now, so as God can Judge them. Luke 19:27, Hebrews 10:26-30, Romans 1:18, Zechariah 14:7-9

    You have so much to unlearn!
     
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