A new article on the origin of DNA

[Subduction Zone]

Discovery boosts theory that life on Earth arose from RNA-DNA mix: Newly described chemical reaction could have assembled DNA building blocks before life forms and their enzymes existed

This article explains how small snippets of DNA and RNA appear to form on their own under the right circumstances.

 

[Arc F1]

Discovery boosts theory that life on Earth arose from RNA-DNA mix: Newly described chemical reaction could have assembled DNA building blocks before life forms and their enzymes existed

This article explains how small snippets of DNA and RNA appear to form on their own under the right circumstances.

"diamidophosphate (DAP), which was plausibly present on Earth"

I saw this a while back. That's a whole lot of coincidences that have to happen. Creation by a creator is also plausible.

 

[Arc F1]

As DNA has formed its 100% likely it did, easy has nothing to do with it.

You dont seem to understand basic science.

We aren't discussing whether it formed but how. DNA is way more complex than paper and ink so it would make sense that if things can form from thin air that simple things would be first. I don't see any fossils of money laying around. It could be anything I'm just using money for the lol factor. Besides it's not like either of us or anyone else is going to prove how DNA formed.

 

[pitabread]

We aren't discussing whether it formed but how. DNA is way more complex than paper and ink so it would make sense that if things can form from thin air that simple things would be first.

How are you measuring the complexity of DNA versus paper and ink? How is complexity defined in a way that is comparable between DNA and paper and ink? What specific metrics/measurements are you using?

 

[VirOptimus]

A creator is plausible. There now we are on the same level as the article.

A creator is wholly unknown proposition which plausibility cannot be determined at all.

 

[Arc F1]

Be specific: How are you measuring complexity in this instance?

If you don't have a specific measurement, then you aren't measuring complexity. In which case the claim that DNA is more complex than paper & ink is meaningless.

DNA carries instructions. Paper and ink do not.

 

[Tree of Life]

Discovery boosts theory that life on Earth arose from RNA-DNA mix: Newly described chemical reaction could have assembled DNA building blocks before life forms and their enzymes existed

This article explains how small snippets of DNA and RNA appear to form on their own under the right circumstances.

Can those right circumstances be created in a lab so that this can be observed? Or is this just theoretical?

 

[VirOptimus]

Can those right circumstances be created in a lab so that this can be observed? Or is this just theoretical?

Science is not just about what can be done in a lab.

 

[pitabread]

DNA carries instructions. Paper and ink do not.

So what? How is that a measure of complexity?

 

[Tree of Life]

No, its not, and calling science a belief is against forum rules.

The principles of science are beliefs. The intellectual products of science are also beliefs. There's nothing wrong with being a belief.

 

[Tree of Life]

Science is not just about what can be done in a lab.

That's true. But empirical data is more valuable than theoretical data when it comes to speculating about the past.

 

[VirOptimus]

The principles of science are beliefs. The intellectual products of science are also beliefs. There's nothing wrong with being a belief.

No, science is not about "belief".

 

[VirOptimus]

That's true. But empirical data is more valuable than theoretical data when it comes to speculating about the past.

Science is always about empirical data.

 

[Tree of Life]

No, science is not about "belief".

Science is all about belief. Science is a method of justifying beliefs and acquiring knowledge, which is itself a special kind of belief.

 

[Tree of Life]

Science is always about empirical data.

Science is also about theories that go beyond purely empirical data.

 

[VirOptimus]

Science is all about belief. Science is a method of justifying beliefs and acquiring knowledge, which is itself a special kind of belief.

No, science is a method of describing and understanding physical reality.

 

[VirOptimus]

Science is also about theories that go beyond purely empirical data.

A scientific theory is somethng that explains all the data and all the facts.

 

[Tree of Life]

No, science is a method of describing and understanding physical reality.

Haha ok. You are obviously unfamiliar with epistemology. Must just be a "science guy".

 

[Tree of Life]

A scientific theory is somethng that explains all the data and all the facts.

The theory of darwinian evolution used to explain the diversity of life that we now see on earth is not something that's observable. It's a serious extrapolation of some things that we can observe and some principles that we can test.

 

[VirOptimus]

The theory of darwinian evolution used to explain the diversity of life that we now see on earth is not something that's observable. It's a serious extrapolation of some things that we can observe and some principles that we can test.

Uh, no.

The ToE is very very robust.

 

[VirOptimus]

Haha ok. You are obviously unfamiliar with epistemology. Must just be a "science guy".

No, I am in fact very well versed in philosophy.

 

[Tree of Life]

Uh, no.

The ToE is very very robust.

Yes it is very robust. But that doesn't change the fact that we cannot observe the distant past.

 

[Tree of Life]

No, I am in fact very well versed in philosophy.

Doesn't sound like it. Have you ever taken an epistemology course or done any reading in epistemology?

 

[VirOptimus]

Doesn't sound like it. Have you ever taken an epistemology course or done any reading in epistemology?

Yes.

 

[VirOptimus]

Yes it is very robust. But that doesn't change the fact that we cannot observe the distant past.

Are you a YEC?

 

[Tree of Life]

Yes.

Then you should not be confused when I say something like "knowledge is justified, true, belief".

 

[pitabread]

Yes it is very robust. But that doesn't change the fact that we cannot observe the distant past.

We can observe the distant past by observing the effects thereof. Past events leave evidence of their occurrence.

 

[Tree of Life]

We can observe the distant past by observing the effects thereof. Past events leave evidence of their occurrence.

Yes that's true in particular instances. But the ToE is a universal theory about life on earth. It does not just attempt to explain particular data points, but all of life as we know it.

 

[VirOptimus]

Then you should not be confused when I say something like "knowledge is justified, true, belief".

Using belief in that context is not the same as religious belief.

 

[Tree of Life]

Using belief in that context is not the same as religious belief.

It is the same in some sense, but not in others. Scientific belief and religious belief are the same in the sense that people hold them to be true. But they are different in terms of whether or not they are justified or how they are justified.

This does not change the fact that knowledge is a special kind of belief. And it does not change the fact that the pursuit of science provides us with things to believe.

 

[VirOptimus]

It is the same in some sense, but not in others. Scientific belief and religious belief are the same in the sense that people hold them to be true. But they are different in terms of whether or not they are justified or how they are justified.

This does not change the fact that knowledge is a special kind of belief. And it does not change the fact that the pursuit of science provides us with things to believe.

That is just mudding the waters.

Again, are you a YEC?

 

[Tree of Life]

That is just mudding the waters.

I rather think that it is bringing clarity.

Again, are you a YEC?

I plead the fifth unless this somehow becomes relevant.

 

[VirOptimus]

snip-
I plead the fifth unless this somehow becomes relevant.

Ah, I see, then I guess you are an YEC.

That explains the mudding.

 

[Tree of Life]

Ah, I see, then I guess you are an YEC.

That explains the mudding.

I think the word you are searching for is "muddying". I cannot control what you assume about me.

 

[VirOptimus]

I think the word you are searching for is "muddying". I cannot control what you assume about me.

Probably, english is not my first language.

No, I would have guessed it anyway.

 

[Tree of Life]

Probably, english is not my first language.

This also might explain some of the breakdown of communication in epistemological terms.

 

[VirOptimus]

This also might explain some of the breakdown of communication in epistemological terms.

Maybe.