A mocking attitude toward degenerates, is it immoral or morally neutral?

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

My question is, is it immoral or morally neutral, not is it helpful. In these verses Elijah and Jesus are dealing with people who would not be swayed with reason. I don't believe this attitude is proper in all circumstances.


"And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made.
And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked." (From 1 Kings 18)

The NLT was much more hilarious
About noontime Elijah began mocking them. “You’ll have to shout louder,” he scoffed, “for surely he is a god! Perhaps he is daydreaming, or is RELIEVING HIMSELF. Or maybe he is away on a trip, or is asleep and needs to be wakened!”

Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. Psalm 2:1-4

 

[Legionwrex]

Elijah was in a challenge with the Baal worshipers for starters. Secondly, being a condescending jerk when trying to sway someone to your side is never a good idea. So it comes down to do you love and genuinely care for the salvation of the "degenerates", or do you just wish to embarrass them.

 

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

Elijah was in a challenge with the Baal worshipers for starters. Secondly, being a condescending jerk when trying to sway someone to your side is never a good idea. So it comes down to do you love and genuinely care for the salvation of the "degenerates", or do you just wish to embarrass them.

Elijah wasn't trying to save the priests of Baal. In fact he had them killed after their god failed to produce fire.

I am not saying it is a good idea for a Christian who is preaching the gospel to the lost and I believe I did say something to that effect.

I don't believe this attitude is proper in all circumstances.

In fact we are commanded to study to always be ready to give an answer to every man that asks us a reason for the hope that's in us with MEEKNESS and FEAR.

 

[Legionwrex]

Elijah wasn't trying to save the priests of Baal. In fact he had them killed after their god failed to produce fire.

I am not saying it is a good idea for a Christian who is preaching the gospel to the lost and I believe I did say something to that effect.

In fact we are commanded to study to always be ready to give an answer to every man that asks us a reason for the hope that's in us with MEEKNESS and FEAR.

I never said he was. That was my entire point that Elijah was in a special circumstance. Society already has enough reasons to hate Christians based on what we believe, lets not give them more by being mocking and rude. We want people to convert, not to turn away.

As to the second quote you responded with, I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. I never said that quote in my comment and I don't know where you got it from.

 

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

I never said he was. That was my entire point that Elijah was in a special circumstance. Society already has enough reasons to hate Christians based on what we believe, lets not give them more by being mocking and rude. We want people to convert, not to turn away.

As to the second quote you responded with, I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. I never said that quote in my comment and I don't know where you got it from.

No I was trying to quote myself. Sorry. Let me fix that.

 

[Alithis]

did the lord specifically tell you to mock someone ? we are after all not supposed to live by OUR will .. but his ..in any situation

 

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

did the lord specifically tell you to mock someone ? we are after all not supposed to live by OUR will .. but his ..in any situation

What did you have for breakfast?

 

[Alithis]

What did you have for breakfast?

that which the lord God designed for us to choose and eat according to his will

no blood and nothing strangled or offered to idols

 

[Bluelion]

that which the lord God designed for us to choose and eat according to his will

no blood and nothing strangled or offered to idols

lol. i to brother ate according to God.

 

[98cwitr]

What did you have for breakfast?

OT, really digging the sig dude

 

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

that which the lord God designed for us to choose and eat according to his will

no blood and nothing strangled or offered to idols

You are avoiding the question. But I appreciate your humor. Did the Lord command you to tell that joke?

 

[snowfam]

I never said he was. That was my entire point that Elijah was in a special circumstance. Society already has enough reasons to hate Christians based on what we believe, lets not give them more by being mocking and rude. We want people to convert, not to turn away.

As to the second quote you responded with, I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. I never said that quote in my comment and I don't know where you got it from.

I think being mocking and rude to a person is inadvisable, however the foolish notions that people have are probably ok to mock. I mean if some believes that two gays getting hitched we should not tell the person they are morally bankrupt but it would be just fine to let them know it was Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve I mean if we don't critisize the wrong ideas we can't really take a stand for what is morally correct, can we?

I mean the stuff the Westboro Baptist Church does is over the edge, but most curches are pressing the other side in order to be pc ir not offend or whatever.

 

[Legionwrex]

I think being mocking and rude to a person is inadvisable, however the foolish notions that people have are probably ok to mock. I mean if some believes that two gays getting hitched we should not tell the person they are morally bankrupt but it would be just fine to let them know it was Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve I mean if we don't critisize the wrong ideas we can't really take a stand for what is morally correct, can we?

I mean the stuff the Westboro Baptist Church does is over the edge, but most curches are pressing the other side in order to be pc ir not offend or whatever.

There's a difference between attacking the idea and attacking the person with it. If I tell a Gay person that homosexuality is a sin, I'm not doing anything wrong. If I mock that person for their sin in a condescending tone, however, I am in the wrong. Do you see the difference?

 

[snowfam]

There's a difference between attacking the idea and attacking the person with it. If I tell a Gay person that homosexuality is a sin, I'm not doing anything wrong. If I mock that person for their sin in a condescending tone, however, I am in the wrong. Do you see the difference?

I do that is precisely what I was attempting say. I would even say that it would be inadvisable to tell them is a sin without first trying to introduce them to Christ, because it is much easier to understand the nature of sin and how it is an affront to God once we establish a relationship with Christ.

 

[Bluelion]

I do that is precisely what I was attempting say. I would even say that it would be inadvisable to tell them is a sin without first trying to introduce them to Christ, because it is much easier to understand the nature of sin and how it is an affront to God once we establish a relationship with Christ.

A person must see there own sin and transgression against the Law in order to understand the need for Jesus. What brings a person to God is they realize there wretch state and repent anything else is lip service.

 

[snowfam]

A person must see there own sin and transgression against the Law in order to understand the need for Jesus. What brings a person to God is they realize there wretch state and repent anything else is lip service.

I agree but they may not see every sin all at once or once we became saved we would no longer sin. True when we accept Jesus we must be ready to be done with sin but to think we are done with it would deny scripture. I think each person will be convicted of any sins in their lives as they grow closer to Jesus.

 

[Awaken4Christ]

Before being saved we were all once degenerate. We were all going to degenerate straight down to hell. There is the degenerate heart and the regenerate heart. If it weren't for an act of the almighty God we would be through. Since God has done this work and we are called to try our best to conform to Christ, shouldn't we show mercy and kindness and let God work through us to save others and glorify his name?

I have to admit I become angry or disgusted with "degenerates" at times but lately I feel that God has been putting me in my place when these emotions arise. Sin is despicable, but we are all guilty of it.

That being said love and respect for the unsaved is different than having tolerance for Sin. Each situation is different but often people need to know they are in need of saving. It can help to show them the Contrast in their behavior compared to what God calls us to be.

I think the verses that you mentioned were more along the lines of telling them the cold hard truth in what they were doing. I think there was an emphasis on the emptiness of their actions. Sometimes the truth needs to be heard. If a drunkard is wasting his life couldn't you say something to the effect "You are drinking your life away, where has drinking gotten you? You will not only continue to stumble on the ground but you will fall to depths unknown. Follow Christ, he will quench your thirst."

There is a time and place to be more "scornful" perhaps the holy-spirit only knows the proper timing.

 

[Lovely Jar]

Sin is despicable, but we are all guilty of it...

That is not accurate according to scripture.
1 John 3:6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.



Christians are to exercise righteous judgment not judgment based on appearances.

The homosexua behavior ,that of the transsexual, are behaviors that are as sinful as is the behavior of the thief, the alcoholic, the abuser of their spouse, etc...


I think when Christians encounter those who are proudly exploiting their sin ,parading it in the public community and demanding to be tolerated for that while being intolerant of those who invoke religious values and are opposed, then the Christian owes it to the truth of God's word to speak up and speak against that sin that left unrepented, will send that homosexual and/or transsexual into the pit to suffer for eternity.



Better to speak in the name of God's love than to remain silent in the name of PC.

 

[Awaken4Christ]

That is not accurate according to scripture.
1 John 3:6No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.



Christians are to exercise righteous judgment not judgment based on appearances.

The homosexua behavior ,that of the transsexual, are behaviors that are as sinful as is the behavior of the thief, the alcoholic, the abuser of their spouse, etc...


I think when Christians encounter those who are proudly exploiting their sin ,parading it in the public community and demanding to be tolerated for that while being intolerant of those who invoke religious values and are opposed, then the Christian owes it to the truth of God's word to speak up and speak against that sin that left unrepented, will send that homosexual and/or transsexual into the pit to suffer for eternity.



Better to speak in the name of God's love than to remain silent in the name of PC.

What did I say that was not accurate according to scripture?
I said there was a difference between loving one another and tolerance for sin. Meaning that we should show love and kindness to the unsaved, but that we should not remain silent about sinful nature/behavior. I don't want to write an essay on this but the gist of what I was saying is that depending on how God uses the Christian, he may have you make mention of sin, causing the person to feel regret of their behavior or they may preach more of the love of God or perhaps somewhere in the middle. Then there is also a time to mention sin outside of preaching. But a lot of it has to do with the type of offense, if God calls you to minister to them, etc. Remember that the Pharisee were nitpicking every little thing about the law. You don't want to fall into Legalism.

Now its true that sin is important but consider how God's revelation is revealed to individuals sometimes in different ways. For instance God may save someone through hearing a sermon of love. They LATER feel broken from their sin and realize the importance of Repentance and Sanctification.

It doesn't always follow that you engage degenerates by a full on onslaught of Mocking and Showing them the shame in their sin. Each will be saved according to God's will. There are many sermons or preaching that lead to Jesus but the important thing being Jesus is the Only Way.

Just to make sure we look at 1 John in full context:


1 John 1:8-10 "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us "


The reason this IS compatible with 1 John 3:6 is that the greek word means sinning of a continuous nature more like a habit. Otherwise I don't think I have ever known of a born again Christian in my lifetime.


Also , now this is my theory, but perhaps preaching about sin too much can be like putting the cart before the horse. Then there could possibly be people running around trying to not sin but without the power of God to help them or they may delve into some works based philosophy.


I know there is all manner of sin today we have to face sister, but because sin and heresies are soo extreme does that mean we should have to fear talking about the Love of God or should would be so afraid of peoples behavior that we over emphasize something in the text to compensate? All I am saying is that sin is only part of the formula. And how much we address sin depends on each situation I think depending on HOW THE HOLY SPIRIT GUIDES YOU.

John 3:17
"For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved"

 

[now faith]

This may seem trite but here goes,

God has a sense of humor.

Even if the prophets of Baal had some demonic presence they worshiped,it would not show up at such
A time.

It must have looked silly before Elijah and God for the to be cutting themselves and wailing away for there
God.

Elijah was commanded by God to present this challenge,and his sarcasm had to be due to
The way God choose to make a mockery of their God.

I am speaking from opinion but I can imagine Elijah looking up and saying good one Lord!