Welcome to you also Cephas 
I agree with your post. It is nothing BUT Life! Thank you L-rd for showing me the way to walk!
I agree with your post. It is nothing BUT Life! Thank you L-rd for showing me the way to walk!
Upvote
0
A Messianic Gentile, someone tell me about this
- Thread starter RaptureTicketHolder
- Start date
Just re-reading through this thread and not sure if the following has been answered:
No, you really should go back and read Genesis again,
Sarah had one child, Isaac. Now Isaac had two children by Rebecca, Jacob and Esau. Esau sold his birthright to Jacob for a bowl of stew, and then when Isaac was dying Rebecca dresses Jacob in kid skins to fool Isaac into thinking it was Esau, who was a hairy man, and Jacob received the blessing of the firstborn.
Speaking of Romans 2
There is no "Jew by proxy" you are either born a Jew, convert or not. I believe that these verses are talking about how there were gentiles then that by the L-rd writing his law within them they followed it, and were not taught the law, as the Jews were and therefore not going to be judged by it. But those that grew up in the law (Jews) would. I believe that the point of this was that when you come before Yeshua ( for he is the one that will judge) It won't matter then if you are Jew or gentile, it will matter what you did with what you knew. If you knew the law, your were obliged to keep it, if not to follow the L-rd in what he put on your heart. IN either case if you chose not to follow him, then you are condemded.
That means that the Jews because they heard the law repeatedly throughout their lives are not justified in that alone, but only those that actually FOLLOWED it, weither hearing it ( in synagogue) or listening to G-d in telling the right way to life, I believe alot of people recognize this as their "conscience".
In regards to Romans 11 about the branches:
Yes, that is the understanding I get too. The most important part that the church as a whole disregards though is this
G-d WILL bring them back in.
```````````````````````
I really don't understand it when People say that they love the L-rd but don't have to do as he did because he had to do those things because he was "Jewish". Well He is STILL Jewish today! But that isn't the real thing here, what He did was G-ds law and will for us, he paid the debt we owed for breaking the law, not did away with it, for if it is done away with He died for nothing.
No, you really should go back and read Genesis again,
Sarah had one child, Isaac. Now Isaac had two children by Rebecca, Jacob and Esau. Esau sold his birthright to Jacob for a bowl of stew, and then when Isaac was dying Rebecca dresses Jacob in kid skins to fool Isaac into thinking it was Esau, who was a hairy man, and Jacob received the blessing of the firstborn. Speaking of Romans 2
There is no "Jew by proxy" you are either born a Jew, convert or not. I believe that these verses are talking about how there were gentiles then that by the L-rd writing his law within them they followed it, and were not taught the law, as the Jews were and therefore not going to be judged by it. But those that grew up in the law (Jews) would. I believe that the point of this was that when you come before Yeshua ( for he is the one that will judge) It won't matter then if you are Jew or gentile, it will matter what you did with what you knew. If you knew the law, your were obliged to keep it, if not to follow the L-rd in what he put on your heart. IN either case if you chose not to follow him, then you are condemded.
That means that the Jews because they heard the law repeatedly throughout their lives are not justified in that alone, but only those that actually FOLLOWED it, weither hearing it ( in synagogue) or listening to G-d in telling the right way to life, I believe alot of people recognize this as their "conscience".
In regards to Romans 11 about the branches:
Yes, that is the understanding I get too. The most important part that the church as a whole disregards though is this
G-d WILL bring them back in.
```````````````````````
Just a small correction here, the Torah is not just in Yeshua, but rather IS Yeshua. He is the living WORD, the Living Torah! He came not only to be the final sacrifice but to show us the way to walk in his ways which was what Torah was all about.
I really don't understand it when People say that they love the L-rd but don't have to do as he did because he had to do those things because he was "Jewish". Well He is STILL Jewish today! But that isn't the real thing here, what He did was G-ds law and will for us, he paid the debt we owed for breaking the law, not did away with it, for if it is done away with He died for nothing.
Upvote
0
SonWorshipper said:Welcome Serving Him!
In answer to your question, if it wasn't retorical, I would say "conviction". They are convicted and know that they aren't truly following G-ds ways or have been indocttinated into thinking that they don't have to follow them because "they aren't Jewish". But deep in their heart the L-rd is telling them that is wrong, but they can't turn away from it. Because they want the "freedom of the New covanant". While they don't understand even what that means
Thank you, SonWorshipper, this makes sense. I have gotten so frustrated by the attitude I see among many Christians, that I didn't think about conviction being at the root of it. I didn't grow up a Christian and even when I became 'saved', I was sceptical of the church. So it wasn't difficult for be to understand that G-d's word (all of it) is for us today. But I can see how those who have been steeped in church teachings would have a hard time accepting this. Thank you for clarifying
Upvote
0
SonWorshipper said:
P.S. Thank you for the Welcome!
I've been reading on this forum for a while, but felt like I haven't learned enough to really participate.Blessings in Yeshua!!!!
Upvote
0
Morning Greetings to all!
What an interesting conversation this has become. I want to thank each and every one of you who have taken the time to post and even those of you who are reading whats here and just thinking things over.
I believe we are blessed because of it all in the mere fact that we are thinking about and discussing the Lord. Even in the other strings that I post in that are not so positive as this, blessing is being had.
Tag,
From what I am seeing so far, it seems to me the only differences are that in ceremony. The physical and mental practice of physically doing things, wearing things, and "playing" the part more so then just showing up for church. The law listings were interesting from a previous poster. I am going to look at that again, however I am not entirely sold on what DAY of the week to celebrate the Lord. Feasting days bring ceremony, and are really enjoyable Im sure, but you know what, EVERY DAY for me is something that should be celebrated. So, I dont really understand this day thing.
For everyone I share:
That my mind is all a flare with thoughts of the New Testiment while reading the concern over Christians not taking the Torah serious enough.
My questions for you:
Why are we Christians?
Is it because of the Old or New Testiments, or even both?
Can one testiment live without the other?
Its wonderful to see you Cephas offer some varying thoughts.
As I see things, there is no "freedom seeking" from the LAW for the plain ole Christian. Christ is the law, and in freedom from Christ we are lost.
In the sentiment quoted above, Im afraid to say that I am seeing more emphasis placed on the Torah here then on Christ. However, I am trying to understand the modern day outlook of the Torah via Christ following eyes. I wonder, do Messianic Jews/Gentiles use the term Christian to describe their relationship w/Christ?
David also failed the Lord, where Christ did not. I have a bit of problem in using David as an example in upholding the Law.
I am wondering just where the New Testiment words fit in here. What exactly is said from Christ's words regarding the law/word of God? How come the old outweights the new?
I personally do not give in the temptation of questioning my Christianity. I try to live knowing better than to do so, as I would indeed be questioning the LORD. I will test things of Him on occasion just as He tests me, but I try very hard to refrain from questioning the foundation. Thats a path someone else wants me to follow, and I wont do it.
I believe what's happening here is you have removed Christ from the equation of forever. He is the word and the word is in Him..... The forever is found in him who follows and upholds the law who is Christ.
Thank you for the link. I hope to soon check it out.
It was nice to hear your thoughts. I hope you will have the chance to post again.
Enjoy the morning folks. I am hopefully going berry picking. I just love making jam and the season is now ripe for it! Such blessings I thank the Lord for!
What an interesting conversation this has become. I want to thank each and every one of you who have taken the time to post and even those of you who are reading whats here and just thinking things over.
I believe we are blessed because of it all in the mere fact that we are thinking about and discussing the Lord. Even in the other strings that I post in that are not so positive as this, blessing is being had.
Tag,
From what I am seeing so far, it seems to me the only differences are that in ceremony. The physical and mental practice of physically doing things, wearing things, and "playing" the part more so then just showing up for church. The law listings were interesting from a previous poster. I am going to look at that again, however I am not entirely sold on what DAY of the week to celebrate the Lord. Feasting days bring ceremony, and are really enjoyable Im sure, but you know what, EVERY DAY for me is something that should be celebrated. So, I dont really understand this day thing.
For everyone I share:
That my mind is all a flare with thoughts of the New Testiment while reading the concern over Christians not taking the Torah serious enough.
My questions for you:
Why are we Christians?
Is it because of the Old or New Testiments, or even both?
Can one testiment live without the other?
Cephas said:
Its wonderful to see you Cephas offer some varying thoughts.
As I see things, there is no "freedom seeking" from the LAW for the plain ole Christian. Christ is the law, and in freedom from Christ we are lost.
In the sentiment quoted above, Im afraid to say that I am seeing more emphasis placed on the Torah here then on Christ. However, I am trying to understand the modern day outlook of the Torah via Christ following eyes. I wonder, do Messianic Jews/Gentiles use the term Christian to describe their relationship w/Christ?
David also failed the Lord, where Christ did not. I have a bit of problem in using David as an example in upholding the Law.
I am wondering just where the New Testiment words fit in here. What exactly is said from Christ's words regarding the law/word of God? How come the old outweights the new?
I personally do not give in the temptation of questioning my Christianity. I try to live knowing better than to do so, as I would indeed be questioning the LORD. I will test things of Him on occasion just as He tests me, but I try very hard to refrain from questioning the foundation. Thats a path someone else wants me to follow, and I wont do it.
I believe what's happening here is you have removed Christ from the equation of forever. He is the word and the word is in Him..... The forever is found in him who follows and upholds the law who is Christ.
Thank you for the link. I hope to soon check it out.
It was nice to hear your thoughts. I hope you will have the chance to post again.
Enjoy the morning folks. I am hopefully going berry picking. I just love making jam and the season is now ripe for it! Such blessings I thank the Lord for!
Upvote
0
G'morning!
The Messiah is the Living Word. IE the Living breathing Torah.
The Torah helps us to love God, and our neighbor. Which are the greatest commandments.
The Messiah lived in perfect harmony with the Torah. Why would we not want to walk just as he walked?
1Jo 2:6 -
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
In love, yes. As I said, the Torah helps us to love God and our neighbor.
2Jo 1:6 -
And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
Did I say David walked in accordance to the Torah perfectly? No, I did not. All have sinned and come short the glory of God...
David returned to the Lord with his whole heart. The life of David epitomizes Gods grace. And guess what? He received Grace before Messiah was crucified.
Gods salvation has ALWAYS been by grace through faith. Works never made a man righteous before God.
And yet, the commandments of God were still placed on his people.
The old does not outweigh the new, nor can the new contradict the old. If it did, then God would be a liar.
Is this where Messiah did away with the Torah?
Matt. 23: 1-3
1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Or perhaps here?
Matthew 5:17-19
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
A general belief amongst christianity is that when he said fulfill, he meant abolished. Contrary to his own words in the same passage.
As I look around, I still see the earth, and the heavens, well at least the starry sky. Are we today living in the Messianic kingdom spoken of in Ezekiel and Isaiah? No? Nor have the heavens and earth passed correct? Then, howbeit the Torah has been made of no effect by man?
Notice verse 19. On the surface, and where my belief is now, is that obviously those who do not follow Torah will be in Heaven. Because as has been said, grace through faith is where salvation comes from. But according to Messiahs own words, where will they be in heaven?
Do you know why Yeshua went into this particular discourse? Because according to the very word of God in deuteronomy 13, no one can abolish the Torah. If any thought to do so they were to be stoned.
Deuteronomy 13 is a very interesting chapter. One can quite easily form the arguement that the Messiah the majority of christianity teaches should have been stoned. Now, to me, that is a scary thought.
The Torah is a way of life for the redeemed community, it is not salvation for the lost.
Mt 4:4 -
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
What is meant by every word? I suppose it would be open to the person reading it. I've spent nearly 20 yrs within Christianity watching what they did with his word forever.
I will question everything from now on. If it does not line up with the Word of God, I will likely dismiss it.
I would also question the foundation you speak of. Surely you mean Yeshua. But which Yeshua, the one traced to Rome, or the one sent from God?
Actually, what was done is people have made the word of God of no effect. Dismissing him when he says forever. Believing he was winking or something. Taking his son, our Messiah and ascribing teachings to him that he never said, teachings that according to the word of God he should be stoned for.
Peace!
The Messiah is the Living Word. IE the Living breathing Torah.
The Torah helps us to love God, and our neighbor. Which are the greatest commandments.
The Messiah lived in perfect harmony with the Torah. Why would we not want to walk just as he walked?
1Jo 2:6 -
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
In love, yes. As I said, the Torah helps us to love God and our neighbor.
2Jo 1:6 -
And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
Did I say David walked in accordance to the Torah perfectly? No, I did not. All have sinned and come short the glory of God...
David returned to the Lord with his whole heart. The life of David epitomizes Gods grace. And guess what? He received Grace before Messiah was crucified.
Gods salvation has ALWAYS been by grace through faith. Works never made a man righteous before God.
And yet, the commandments of God were still placed on his people.
The old does not outweigh the new, nor can the new contradict the old. If it did, then God would be a liar.
Is this where Messiah did away with the Torah?
Matt. 23: 1-3
1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Or perhaps here?
Matthew 5:17-19
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
A general belief amongst christianity is that when he said fulfill, he meant abolished. Contrary to his own words in the same passage.
As I look around, I still see the earth, and the heavens, well at least the starry sky. Are we today living in the Messianic kingdom spoken of in Ezekiel and Isaiah? No? Nor have the heavens and earth passed correct? Then, howbeit the Torah has been made of no effect by man?
Notice verse 19. On the surface, and where my belief is now, is that obviously those who do not follow Torah will be in Heaven. Because as has been said, grace through faith is where salvation comes from. But according to Messiahs own words, where will they be in heaven?
Do you know why Yeshua went into this particular discourse? Because according to the very word of God in deuteronomy 13, no one can abolish the Torah. If any thought to do so they were to be stoned.
Deuteronomy 13 is a very interesting chapter. One can quite easily form the arguement that the Messiah the majority of christianity teaches should have been stoned. Now, to me, that is a scary thought.
The Torah is a way of life for the redeemed community, it is not salvation for the lost.
Mt 4:4 -
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
What is meant by every word? I suppose it would be open to the person reading it. I've spent nearly 20 yrs within Christianity watching what they did with his word forever.
I will question everything from now on. If it does not line up with the Word of God, I will likely dismiss it.
I would also question the foundation you speak of. Surely you mean Yeshua. But which Yeshua, the one traced to Rome, or the one sent from God?
Actually, what was done is people have made the word of God of no effect. Dismissing him when he says forever. Believing he was winking or something. Taking his son, our Messiah and ascribing teachings to him that he never said, teachings that according to the word of God he should be stoned for.
Peace!
Upvote
0
SonWorshipper said:Welcome to you also Cephas
Thank you friend for the welcome! I totally missed your post.
Upvote
0
Hi there Cephas
You ask me about the role of Christ.
I do not see two different Christ's as you mention. I see the Son of GOD and within my faith of His sacrafice, I will not question that foundation. EVER.
Im curious about something.
I have learned in the past, that many choose to not spell out the Lords name in referring to Him.
I find that unusal. When you say GOD, do you say G-D just as you spell it? Where is the direction to do this? Is this very important to the Messianic profile?
I think this might be a good example of where the purpose of the Torah and the purpose of Christ vary.
You ask me about the role of Christ.
I do not see two different Christ's as you mention. I see the Son of GOD and within my faith of His sacrafice, I will not question that foundation. EVER.
Im curious about something.
I have learned in the past, that many choose to not spell out the Lords name in referring to Him.
I find that unusal. When you say GOD, do you say G-D just as you spell it? Where is the direction to do this? Is this very important to the Messianic profile?
I think this might be a good example of where the purpose of the Torah and the purpose of Christ vary.
Upvote
0
They say they do this G-D thing out of respect.
But I think they bring HIS great name to not.
We are to bring The evilones name to NOT.
Not the FATHER's name or the SON's name.
We are to proclain the Great name of the FATHER.
HallelluYAH
But I think they bring HIS great name to not.
We are to bring The evilones name to NOT.
Not the FATHER's name or the SON's name.
We are to proclain the Great name of the FATHER.
HallelluYAH
Upvote
0
Well, for one, I don't do it.
But I believe it's done so as not to take the name of the lord in vain.
But I fail to see how teaching and talking about the lord is using his name in vain, so it seems somewhat silly to me personally.
(No offense meant to anyone who does however. This could be one of those areas of many I yet need more refinement in!
)Sorry to hear that. I see many different christs being taught. Each teaching claiming to be led of the spirit, all contradicting one another. Mormons, jehovah witesses, Islams, catholics, and every other sect of protestants in existence. There are so many versions of christ out there it's lunacy.
Personally as I said, I will question what is being taught to me, ALWAYS.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Ok, Ive had my morning cuppa, but I dont quite get what you have said, Sab.
The name to not bit.....mabye with a bit more of plainer english (if there is such usage) I would understand.
Ok Cep
*lol* We are on different pages here.
I am taking my Christianity from the Bible, alone - not from someone's idea of Christianity found in a Denom.
The Christ I see and follow is one of the same as the Bible tells me about, not some Mormon or JW or strange thumper of some sort. I dont listen to any of that "noise".
Im really not sure where you are going with your thoughts, but I think we are swaying away from the original desire, to discover what exactly this Messianic movement is and what if anything does it do differently than a plain ole Christian practice.
So far, Im not seeing that things in a Messianic practice are that radically different. I am looking for a deeper study, but I am left wondering from this string whether the ceremonial differences are the striking difference to bring this about for me.
So far, my thoughts that Messianic practice might be the key have yet to really hit home. I cant decide yet if Messianics place more importance on the OT ways.
Is there the best of both worlds? A wonderful mix of ole and new?
How do I find this mix?
Thats the point of this string. Not, what Christ do you follow, so I am hoping we can drop that line of thought. I believe in Christ as GODs son, basically Id thank you for nuff said on that notion.
The name to not bit.....mabye with a bit more of plainer english (if there is such usage) I would understand.
Ok Cep
*lol* We are on different pages here.
I am taking my Christianity from the Bible, alone - not from someone's idea of Christianity found in a Denom.
The Christ I see and follow is one of the same as the Bible tells me about, not some Mormon or JW or strange thumper of some sort. I dont listen to any of that "noise".
Im really not sure where you are going with your thoughts, but I think we are swaying away from the original desire, to discover what exactly this Messianic movement is and what if anything does it do differently than a plain ole Christian practice.
So far, Im not seeing that things in a Messianic practice are that radically different. I am looking for a deeper study, but I am left wondering from this string whether the ceremonial differences are the striking difference to bring this about for me.
So far, my thoughts that Messianic practice might be the key have yet to really hit home. I cant decide yet if Messianics place more importance on the OT ways.
Is there the best of both worlds? A wonderful mix of ole and new?
How do I find this mix?
Thats the point of this string. Not, what Christ do you follow, so I am hoping we can drop that line of thought. I believe in Christ as GODs son, basically Id thank you for nuff said on that notion.
Upvote
0
Do you observe the seventh day sabbath as ordained by God the father to be observed forever? Or do you observe the constantine sabbath of sunday, ordained on sunday in order to please the pagans who converted to christianity but did not want to give up their day of worship, in which they worshipped the sun god, on sunday?
Mainstream christianity would rather observe a day ordained by a man. A rather dubious day at that.
Do you as a mainstream "sola scriptura" christian adhere to the dietary codes established by God the father? Or are you in line with the teachings of mainstream christianity that God did away with the dietary laws and demonstrated it in the vision Peter had of the sheet full of unclean animals?
Ignoring the fact that Peter himself reveals the interpretation a few verses later, and it had nothing to do with the dietary laws.
Do you observe Gods ordained holidays, or holidays made by man that are now laced with pagan innuendo, regardless of their original intent?
Those are a few things, where Messianics differ with mainstream christianity.
Elaborate please.
Completion of what? The law that God said is to be observed by his people forever?
Upvote
0
Is there the best of both worlds? A wonderful mix of ole and new?
Whats the diffrence between Old and NEW?
Will not everybody Old and NEW testament be saved By FAITH,and GRACE,
and Through YAHSHUA the SALVATION of YAH.
I think I need to understand your Understanding of that.
Whats the diffrence between Old and NEW?
Will not everybody Old and NEW testament be saved By FAITH,and GRACE,
and Through YAHSHUA the SALVATION of YAH.
I think I need to understand your Understanding of that.
Upvote
0
Cephas said:
Interesting thoughts here.
Do you reserve your celebration and worship of the Lord for only ONE day out of SEVEN? I sing to you: This is the day that the Lord hath made, I will rejoyce and be glad in it, this is the day, this is the day that the Lord hath made.
Would it, are you so sure, even in light of the Lord making each and every day for us? Im curious if your own birthday fell on a dubious day, would you refrain from celebrating it? Since pagans deemed a day something way back when, is that day in all of history that same something? Pagans have many, many celebrations - some of which overlap Jewish feasting days. Are those feasting days now tainted because the Pagans where using those days first?
I think the pharasis (sp) did what you are doing now and Christ was not accepting that of them. This example alone right now seems enough to me to say the OT is more important in celebration of the Lord where Messianic practice is concerned. I hope you can show me otherwise.
Indeed I am very interested in this. And again, this is prime example of differences I believe are really not necessary.
What did Christ do? Didnt he touch people he should not have, according to law? Didnt he eat w/folks he should not have, according to law? So, what did Christ do with his food?
The food items that law says you should not take, what is the purpose, then, of it? Was GODs effort in vain by creating such items if his chosen can not make use of them?
Can the heart of a Christian share the Lord and pagan tendancies at the same time? I dont think so and we are called on to committ to Him totally. So is my heart celebrating Christmas in Christ or Pagan style? I believe I can easily say Im a gal after the Lords will, and am happy to say I celebrate Christ. If, some how, I truely believed Christ's birthday was in February, would I be wrong in the Lord's eyes or would He be pleased that I celebrate him at all?
But, because I dont hide crackers or burn eggs at special times, am I lacking? What did Christ say about this?
What I think Im seeing here, Cep, are generalizations on your part that dont sit well with the entirely of my person. It seems to me like you are telling an Irish person they eat potatoes and only potatoes, yet you know nothing of what is actully in their life of which potatoes are even part. (silly example but its the one I thought of off the cuff)
Actually, if generalizations are at hand, I believe a better generalization of modern day mainstream Christianity is its not Christianity at all. Its the worldly spin of total tolerance of anything and everything with a turn the other cheek at all times lifestyle.
I think we are finally getting to the heart of my search. Tell me more of these specific differences and lets break it all down to what it means and why, that I will dearly appreciate.
Upvote
0
Now wait.
Indeed we are on a different page.
You keep giving the impression that you are merely trying to find out the differences between messianic observances and main stream christianity.
I provided several. As have others.
Upon providing your request of information your true motive appears, IMO. That being to enter a debate on the differences, and not merely the differences as you have tried to portray.
I have no objections to turning this into a debate, if that is what you wish. Only, be honest about your motives.
Indeed we are on a different page.
You keep giving the impression that you are merely trying to find out the differences between messianic observances and main stream christianity.
I provided several. As have others.
Upon providing your request of information your true motive appears, IMO. That being to enter a debate on the differences, and not merely the differences as you have tried to portray.
I have no objections to turning this into a debate, if that is what you wish. Only, be honest about your motives.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Well, Im wanting to know are these items truely differences?
The outlook of a Messianic seems to be that a plain ole Christian is lacking.
Is that the case? If I take on this outlook, what am I lacking, am I really lacking or is this view heavily tainted by OT practice.
You tell me of a differece, I ask why. I dont see this as debating, but trying to understand. Sorry if I gave that impression.
I believe Im making you think about the Messianic practice, by questioning and thats mostly likely putting up defences in your mind that are not necessary. I know Im asking some hard hitting questions, but no harm or annoyance is intended.
The outlook of a Messianic seems to be that a plain ole Christian is lacking.
Is that the case? If I take on this outlook, what am I lacking, am I really lacking or is this view heavily tainted by OT practice.
You tell me of a differece, I ask why. I dont see this as debating, but trying to understand. Sorry if I gave that impression.
I believe Im making you think about the Messianic practice, by questioning and thats mostly likely putting up defences in your mind that are not necessary. I know Im asking some hard hitting questions, but no harm or annoyance is intended.
Upvote
0
The LAW is Remember the sabbath , To keep it set apart.
six days shalt thou labour ,
The Law is not just about worshipping on the Seventh day
It is about resting also so. Spending time with your Family and YAH.
The other part you are not looking at is you are commanded to Work 6 days
And not only REST yourself but to give youe servents a REST.
The LAW states the seventh day was hallowed.
No other day was hallowed By the FATHER.
six days shalt thou labour ,
The Law is not just about worshipping on the Seventh day
It is about resting also so. Spending time with your Family and YAH.
The other part you are not looking at is you are commanded to Work 6 days
And not only REST yourself but to give youe servents a REST.
The LAW states the seventh day was hallowed.
No other day was hallowed By the FATHER.
Upvote
0
Some Messianics, perhaps.
Yet you will be hard pressed to find any who say salvation comes by any means other than grace through faith.
Salvation has always been by grace through faith. God has always looked on the heart.
And yet, as I stated earlier he placed his ways on his people.
Mainstream christianity would like the world to believe that Messiah did away with Gods ways. I know, I've sat through those types of teachings for 20yrs. They provide the greatest arguement against Yeshua being the Messiah with their teachings. As I stated earlier, no one can do away with the Torah.
Some to the point of calling Gods word an "old dead word", "weak and beggarly", "bondage", and a slough of other negative words. Words which contradict what God said about his ways.
Upvote
0
Sabian said:
So would you say Messianic practice is principled on following the Law and nothing else or is the Law just part of the practice?
I understand about the restful nature, I understand about working. But, I know the mind is capable of more than just work for the six days. When I work, I think of and worship the Lord.
But according to the Law, what would these efforts of mine be? Is each sabbath looked at like a Christmas celebration?
Maybe instead of proding you guys, I should try to experience this myself, I dont know.
But thanks non-the-less for your posting.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Well, Cep, I guess I did not grow up in mainstream Christianity.
I was not taught that the OT was dead or that Christ was the Law's replacement.
But I really want to know WHY the food thing is still so important - is it just because the law says so or what?
In these specific questions I have, I am NOT saying Christ replaced those needs, but I want to know WHY those needs are still valid?
If Christ is the law and the law is Christ, why did he do the things the law says one should not?
I personally think he was giving a message in those actions. All those passages in the NT where he and the pharasees talk back and forth to each other, what role do those conversations play within Messianic principle?
I was not taught that the OT was dead or that Christ was the Law's replacement.
But I really want to know WHY the food thing is still so important - is it just because the law says so or what?
In these specific questions I have, I am NOT saying Christ replaced those needs, but I want to know WHY those needs are still valid?
If Christ is the law and the law is Christ, why did he do the things the law says one should not?
I personally think he was giving a message in those actions. All those passages in the NT where he and the pharasees talk back and forth to each other, what role do those conversations play within Messianic principle?
Upvote
0
Similar threads
