A look at Revelation and Matthew 24

[shepherdsword]

I see the 7 seals in a certain manner. I think Mat 24 gives us a synopsis of the book of Revelation. Let me explain.
The 1st seal "the white horse rider" as the anti-christ. (See in Mt 24 where Jesus said many will come in my name saying I am he.)
The 2nd seal is the red horse who had the power to take peace from the earth( See in Mt 24 where Jesus said there will be wars and rumors of wars)
The 3rd seal is the black horse rider that chanted "a full days work for a loaf of bread" (See in Mat 24 where Jesus said there will be famines in diverse places.)
The 4th seal is the pale horse of death with hell following that would kill 1/4 of mankind with pestilence ( See Mat 24 where Jesus said there would be pestilences in various places)
The 5th seal showed that that were martyred for the faith under the alter (See in Mat 24 where Jesus said we would be delivered up)
The 6th seal showed the heavens falling and the earth shaken (See in Mat 24 where Jesus said there would be earthquakes)
The 7th seal shows silence in heaven. Why? Because all of heaven is invading earth when Jesus returns, He will bring His army with him (See in Mat 24 where Jesus says and THEN shall the son of man return)


2 Th 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[Mr. M]

2 Th 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Should we continue?
Matthew 24:
10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another.
11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.
12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.

 

[pdudgeon]

I see the 7 seals in a certain manner. I think Mat 24 gives us a synopsis of the book of Revelation. Let me explain.
The 1st seal "the white horse rider" as the anti-christ. (See in Mt 24 where Jesus said many will come in my name saying I am he.)
The 2nd seal is the red horse who had the power to take peace from the earth( See in Mt 24 where Jesus said there will be wars and rumors of wars)
The 3rd seal is the black horse rider that chanted "a full days work for a loaf of bread" (See in Mat 24 where Jesus said there will be famines in diverse places.)
The 4th seal is the pale horse of death with hell following that would kill 1/4 of mankind with pestilence ( See Mat 24 where Jesus said there would be pestilences in various places)
The 5th seal showed that that were martyred for the faith under the alter (See in Mat 24 where Jesus said we would be delivered up)
The 6th seal showed the heavens falling and the earth shaken (See in Mat 24 where Jesus said there would be earthquakes)
The 7th seal shows silence in heaven. Why? Because all of heaven is invading earth when Jesus returns, He will bring His army with him (See in Mat 24 where Jesus says and THEN shall the son of man return)


2 Th 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

I would say that we are between the 5th and 6th seal now.

 

[HTacianas]

I see the 7 seals in a certain manner. I think Mat 24 gives us a synopsis of the book of Revelation. Let me explain.
The 1st seal "the white horse rider" as the anti-christ. (See in Mt 24 where Jesus said many will come in my name saying I am he.)
The 2nd seal is the red horse who had the power to take peace from the earth( See in Mt 24 where Jesus said there will be wars and rumors of wars)
The 3rd seal is the black horse rider that chanted "a full days work for a loaf of bread" (See in Mat 24 where Jesus said there will be famines in diverse places.)
The 4th seal is the pale horse of death with hell following that would kill 1/4 of mankind with pestilence ( See Mat 24 where Jesus said there would be pestilences in various places)
The 5th seal showed that that were martyred for the faith under the alter (See in Mat 24 where Jesus said we would be delivered up)
The 6th seal showed the heavens falling and the earth shaken (See in Mat 24 where Jesus said there would be earthquakes)
The 7th seal shows silence in heaven. Why? Because all of heaven is invading earth when Jesus returns, He will bring His army with him (See in Mat 24 where Jesus says and THEN shall the son of man return)


2 Th 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Follow your reasoning to its logical conclusion.

Mat 24:2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

 

[pdudgeon]

The heavens falling and the Earth shaking sounds very much like War to me.
And not just cannon and mortars between two armies, but nuclear strikes, and power plants exploding.

That next progression has been possible for over half a century now; And only cooler heads prevailed, Our Blessed Mother, Mary's intervention, and Christian morals took prescidence, and stopped it. Temporarily.
So the clock is on "pause", but it is not stopped forever.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

For 90% of the world, it is business as usual.
We only see these things in the west because we are so focused on our own culture and nations. In many parts of the world, life is even better than it has ever been.
If we are anywhere, it is in the beginning of sorrows. I seriously do not believe we are in the seals yet.
Jesus said the things described in Matt 24 would be the greatest tribulation that has ever been or ever will be. We are not there yet. WW2 was worse. The great depression was worse. WW1 was worse. The plague was worse. If there has been greater tribulation before this time than what we are seeing now, then this cannot be the time Jesus was talking about.

Matthew 24:21
21. For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

[Blade]

Well the Church is still here and the great tribulation has not started.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

when the sixth seal is released, God becomes visible to everyone, and they act like the Hebrews did when God was revealed among them with Moses. They were afraid of dying, same reaction.

Until this sign happens, the rest is speculative.

 

[pdudgeon]

For 90% of the world, it is business as usual.
We only see these things in the west because we are so focused on our own culture and nations. In many parts of the world, life is even better than it has ever been.
If we are anywhere, it is in the beginning of sorrows. I seriously do not believe we are in the seals yet.
Jesus said the things described in Matt 24 would be the greatest tribulation that has ever been or ever will be. We are not there yet. WW2 was worse. The great depression was worse. WW1 was worse. The plague was worse. If there has been greater tribulation before this time than what we are seeing now, then this cannot be the time Jesus was talking about.

Matthew 24:21
21. For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The reason that there has not been worse tribulation is due to four things:
1. The will of God.
2. The prayers of good men and women, and the Saints that are still with us.
3. God's timing, which has always been in force.
4. God's Grace.

 

[Douggg]

I see the 7 seals in a certain manner. I think Mat 24 gives us a synopsis of the book of Revelation. Let me explain.
The 1st seal "the white horse rider" as the anti-christ. (See in Mt 24 where Jesus said many will come in my name saying I am he.)
The 2nd seal is the red horse who had the power to take peace from the earth( See in Mt 24 where Jesus said there will be wars and rumors of wars)
The 3rd seal is the black horse rider that chanted "a full days work for a loaf of bread" (See in Mat 24 where Jesus said there will be famines in diverse places.)
The 4th seal is the pale horse of death with hell following that would kill 1/4 of mankind with pestilence ( See Mat 24 where Jesus said there would be pestilences in various places)
The 5th seal showed that that were martyred for the faith under the alter (See in Mat 24 where Jesus said we would be delivered up)
The 6th seal showed the heavens falling and the earth shaken (See in Mat 24 where Jesus said there would be earthquakes)
The 7th seal shows silence in heaven. Why? Because all of heaven is invading earth when Jesus returns, He will bring His army with him (See in Mat 24 where Jesus says and THEN shall the son of man return)


2 Th 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Welcome to the forum, sherpardsword.

 

[eleos1954]

I would say that we are between the 5th and 6th seal now.

I think we are living between verses 13 and 14 of the sixth chapter of Revelation. The great signs which we have just mentioned are all in the past, signs which mark the approach of our Saviour's return to this earth. I think we are living under the sixth seal, waiting for the opening of the seventh.

 

[Douggg]

The 1st seal "the white horse rider" as the anti-christ. (See in Mt 24 where Jesus said many will come in my name saying I am he.)

The rider on the white horse is the Antichrist, agreed.

But the Antichrist does not come in Jesus's name, but his own name. i.e. he will not claim to be Jesus.

Of course, there have been some who have claimed to be Jesus, such as Visarion in Russia, and John Smith in Australia, Jose Luis Miranda.

Matthew 24 does not have the Antichrist in it directly.

In Mattew 24:14, the gosple of the kingdom will be preached in all nation - then end will come. The verse prior to cover the span of history up to the end times.

Which Matthew 24:15 picks up in the middle of the 7 years with the abomination of desolation (AoD) setup. Matthe24:15-31 is end times.

 

[shepherdsword]

But the Antichrist does not come in Jesus's name, but his own name. i.e. he will not claim to be Jesus.

Do you think it's possible that when Jesus said "In my name saying I AM Christ" He was explaining the the antichrist would claim to be God?
The term "Ego Emi" as in I AM is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew tetragrammaton "YHVH".

Another possibility is that when on claims to say I am Christ" He is simply claiming to be "anointed"

"Mt 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ(gr: christos for "anointed")
Hence if the antichrist claimed to be "anointed" he would fit the bill. Possible? Maybe?

 

[Douggg]

Do you think it's possible that when Jesus said "In my name saying I AM Christ" He was explaining the the antichrist would claim to be God?
The term "Ego Emi" as in I AM is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew tetragrammaton "YHVH".

Another possibility is that when on claims to say I am Christ" He is simply claiming to be "anointed"

"Mt 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ(gr: christos for "anointed")
Hence if the antichrist claimed to be "anointed" he would fit the bill. Possible? Maybe?

Where I am getting that the Antichrist will come in his own name is from John5:43.

43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

I agree that Christ means anointed. Both the priests and kings were anointeds
in the Tanach. "The" messiah, commonly refers to the one particular anointed to be descended from King David - to become king of Israel.

The woman at the well...

John 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

To become the Antichrist, the person will be anointed the King of Israel, the another that Jesus said the Jewish people will accept (for a while).

 

[shepherdsword]

43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

This doesn't necessarily refer to the antichrist. Jesus could have simply been saying that they receive any false teacher as all of them came for their own glory

To become the Antichrist, the person will be anointed the King of Israel, the another that Jesus said the Jewish people will accept (for a while).

I am of the belief(at this present time) that the antichrist will arise out of the future Islamic Caliphite destined to arise in the middle east. However, I am not dogmatic on the issue. I refer to define my interpretations of Revelation as "possibilities". My views have changed much over the years.

 

[Douggg]

I am of the belief(at this present time) that the antichrist will arise out of the future Islamic Caliphite destined to arise in the middle east. However, I am not dogmatic on the issue. I refer to define my interpretations of Revelation as "possibilities". My views have changed much over the years.

I considered the Muslim mahdi theory about 10-11 years ago. Joel Richardson and Joel Rosenberg both promote that theory. But after much study on it, I concluded it would not fit with the bible prophecies because...

1. the mahdi in Islam belief is never worshipped. That keeps him from being the beast - who will be worshipped.

2. the muslim mahdi, in muslim belief, will eventually be in a do or die battle with the dajjal (the muslim version of the Antichrist) which at a critical juncture, Isa (the muslim Jesus) returns to destroy the dajjal. None of those things can be matched up with the real prophecies in the bible

3. In the muslim mahdi theory, the matchups with biblical persons are commonly....

a. the mahdi - the Antichrist
b. Isa - the false prophet
c. the dajjal - no matchup in the bible

A place to go if you want to talk to muslims themselves about their end times views and beliefs is the Islamicity site discussion forum.
_____________________________________________________

My view regarding Islam and the end times is yes, it will be a factor leading up to Gog/Magog event. But once that event takes place, Islam discredited will not have the prominence it has today. Going the same way as communism, imo.

In the wake of Gog/Magog will be the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9:27. And the
prince who shall come will be thought by the Jews as the messiah.

 

[RandyPNW]

I see the 7 seals in a certain manner. I think Mat 24 gives us a synopsis of the book of Revelation. Let me explain.
The 1st seal "the white horse rider" as the anti-christ. (See in Mt 24 where Jesus said many will come in my name saying I am he.)
The 2nd seal is the red horse who had the power to take peace from the earth( See in Mt 24 where Jesus said there will be wars and rumors of wars)
The 3rd seal is the black horse rider that chanted "a full days work for a loaf of bread" (See in Mat 24 where Jesus said there will be famines in diverse places.)
The 4th seal is the pale horse of death with hell following that would kill 1/4 of mankind with pestilence ( See Mat 24 where Jesus said there would be pestilences in various places)
The 5th seal showed that that were martyred for the faith under the alter (See in Mat 24 where Jesus said we would be delivered up)
The 6th seal showed the heavens falling and the earth shaken (See in Mat 24 where Jesus said there would be earthquakes)
The 7th seal shows silence in heaven. Why? Because all of heaven is invading earth when Jesus returns, He will bring His army with him (See in Mat 24 where Jesus says and THEN shall the son of man return)


2 Th 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

I agree that Antichrist comes 1st, before the 2nd Coming, if that's what you're saying? The book of Revelation is, I believe, listing things that God sees as necessary to bring this world under final judgment in anticipation of the Christian Kingdom on earth.

The great sword is an indication that the world cannot avoid warfare, since they are not led by Christ. The loss of peace is the result of the strife brought about by their not living for Christ.

The famine and disease that follows indicate the curses that exist in the world, preventing a utopia. Even though governments attempt to bring unity and blessing, apart from Christ they are unable to do this.

The persecution of the saints happens when the world chooses to live for Antichrist, ie for a life independent of God and of Christ. They hate the saints, who convict them of the way they should be living and show them that they are bringing their curses upon themselves.

The 6th seal indicates the calamities are leading to the end of the dominion of Satan in this world, until Christ actually comes and establishes his Kingdom on earth. The 7th seal is the coming of Christ's Kingdom, ending the age of Satan's dominion.

So I suppose we sort of see things eye to eye? Maybe there are some differences, but in my view they seem negligible. The world is falling apart because they are choosing to go the way of Antichrist, the way of rebellion against God's word. But those who faithfully obey the word of Christ will be victorious and obtain good reward in the life to come.

 

[RandyPNW]

For 90% of the world, it is business as usual.
We only see these things in the west because we are so focused on our own culture and nations. In many parts of the world, life is even better than it has ever been.
If we are anywhere, it is in the beginning of sorrows. I seriously do not believe we are in the seals yet.
Jesus said the things described in Matt 24 would be the greatest tribulation that has ever been or ever will be. We are not there yet. WW2 was worse. The great depression was worse. WW1 was worse. The plague was worse. If there has been greater tribulation before this time than what we are seeing now, then this cannot be the time Jesus was talking about.

Matthew 24:21
21. For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

I'd like you to consider another possibility, even though it isn't presently popular. Jesus was speaking of a great tribulation that was to happen to the *Jewish People.* This wasn't just an apocalyptic prophecy, which is the popular view presently. Rather, this was Jesus acting as a prophet for his people, and announcing that they were coming under judgment for rejecting the gospel of his Kingdom.

Luke 21 plainly calls it a *Jewish Punishment,* one that lasts from the 70 AD fall of the temple to the end of the age, when Jesus returns. This is the true meaning of the "Great Tribulation," a view that is not presently popular but nevertheless accords with the Scriptural context.

In this I'm *not* saying there won't be a future reign of Antichrist for 3.5 years. Clearly, Daniel indicated that would happen in ch. 7 of his book. And clearly, John writes about that in his Revelation. Antichrist will persecute the saints for 3.5 years!

But the reign of Antichrist is actually the end phase of the present era of Jewish Tribulation. Jesus gave us the example of Israel's fate to warn future Christian nations that the same can happen to them if they fall away from the faith as the Jews did.

But for those of us who are faithful, we should rest assured that just as God intends to restore the Jewish People to faith and to nationhood, so God can also restore Christian nations, and has, in fact, done so at various times in the past.