A LIST OF MY FAVORITE LOSE YOUR SALVATION VERSES

[Grandpa2390]

Romans 10:3 requires submitting to the righteousness of God in order to be saved and this obedience to the Lord's will is not legalism. Hence submitting to the will of the Lord is obeying the command to be water baptized is righteousness. John says as long as on continues to NOT do righteousness he continues to not be of God 1 John 3:10. Therefore one is not of God until one submits to God's righteousness in believing, repenting confession and baptism John 8:24; Luke 13:3; Matthew 10:32-33' submit to baptism Mark 16:16.

As far as Mark 16:16 when left alone and untampered with by those with a theological bias against water baptism, the verse makes water baptism necessary to salvation. After reading what you posted about Mark 16:16 I see that you did not deal with the logical or grammatical facts given us in the verse but simply rewrote the verse to force it to fit your theology. If we could all do this then the bible becomes as worthless as the paper it is written upon.

Mark 16:16 " (a) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
(b) but he that believeth not shall be damned."

1) in 16a there is a logically sequence, order of events with believe coming BEFORE baptism and baptism coming BEFORE saved. Above you posted (my emp) "...it (baptism) is an act of obedience that follows salvation" So you rewrote the verse to say....he that believeth is saved, then can be baptized....with no logically, biblically based reason for doing so, just a personal theological bias. You also admit that water baptism is an act of OBEDIENCE. Therefore one is in and remains in disobedience/unrighteousness/sin/lost until one does obey the command to be baptized.

2) the conjunction "and" is used to connect things together. In 16a it connects "believeth" to "baptized" that makes them inseparable, making them both of equal importance and necessity to be saved. Nothing can separate the two, not even a theological bis against the Lord's command to be water baptized. The 'and' means if baptism is not necessary to being saved, then neither is belief. Getting rid of either belief or baptism one longer has 'saved'. If I say 1 AND 2 gives me 3 then the 'and' makes BOTH the 1 and 2 of equal importance and necessity to have the 3. Getting rid of the 2 you no longer have the 3.

3) Mark 16 is a compound sentience with 2 subjects 1) salvation 2) condemnation. The verse gives 2 requirements to be saved: belief and baptism. It gives just one requirement needed to be lost; unbelief. Condemnation does not require 2 conditions, just one- unbelief. Since in 16a Jesus made belief a prerequisite to being baptized then an unbeliever IS an unbaptized person. Therefore in 16b when Christ said "he that believeth not", this IS an unbaptized person for lack of believe means he has not been baptized. Therefore it would be redundant and unnecessary for Christ to say in 16b "he that believeth not and is baptized not due to his unbelief shall be condemned"

Therefore from Mark 16:16 we can see that a NT belief INCLUDES baptism or it is not a NT belief that saves:

Acts 2:41 "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:....."
Acts 2:44 "And all that believed were together,...."

Who were the ones that "believed" in verse 44? The ones that were baptized or the ones' not baptized? Obviously the ones that "believed in v44 were the ones baptized v41 so we have "believed" in v44 being used as a synecdoche where "believed" INCLUDES being baptized. Also note the implication of the words in v41. Those that gladly received Peter's words were baptized. This implies that not being baptized is rejecting the gospel words. Therefore one is rejecting the gospel until he has been baptized...being baptized is receiving the gospel.







No loopholes or 'hard circumstances' gets one around the bible's teachings.




I see nothing in Acts 2 about a "baptism of repentance". Peter commanded you all to repent and each of you all to be baptized. Hence repentance and baptism are not the same things.



The Greek word 'eis' is found some 1700 times in the Greek NT and is NEVER translated "because of". It does not mean because of. Men simply try and change the meaning of a word to get around the necessity of water baptism

Mt 26:28 "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for (eis) the remission of sins."

Christ shed His blood BECAUSE sins were already remitted? Hardly (Hebrews 9:22). AT Robertson has no problem understanding that 'eis' in Mt 26:28 means "for" yet when the same phrase "for remission of sins" is found in Acts 2:38 then Robertson is no longer sure what the word means. Robertson says of "eis" in Acts 2:38 " One will decide the use here according as he believes that baptism is essential to the remission of sins or not." One of the most awful comments that can be found in any commentary. The very idea one's theological bias determines meaning of words. Horrible way to handle the word of God.

1 Tim 1:16 "Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to (eis) life everlasting."

So we have one believing BECAUSE HE ALREADY has everlasting life? Not possible. THerefore "eis" does not mean 'because of" never will mean "because of".

Since acts 2:38 connects 'repent' to 'be baptized' with the conjunction "and" that would mean one repents BECAUSE his sins were already remitted. Not biblical either.



This is just an attempt to rewrite the verse with no sound logical basis behind it, just bias.

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins..."

The pronoun 'you' underlined is plural. Peter is saying...you all repent and each of YOU ALL be baptized...so Peter used a plural 'you all' for both repent and be baptized. Furthermore Peter is addressing the same people. He did not tell one group of people to repent and a different group to be baptized.

Peter used precise language when he said:

"You all repent and each one of you all be baptized..."

This eliminates the idea of proxy baptism. Each person has to be baptized him/herself. Suppose an English teacher has 30 students and the teacher says to the students "You all go to the library and write a report on the novel". All 30 students could go to the library and get together and write one report they turn in. They technically did what the teacher asked. Yet if the teacher says "You all go to the library and each one of you all write a report" then the teacher can expect 30 reports with each report written by each student.






Facts gleaned from Rom 6:3:
--Baptism is how one gets into Christ verse 3. No salvation outside of Christ.
--Baptism is how one becomes "dead" being baptized into the death of Christ. THe 'dead" are freed from sin/justified verse 4,7
--Baptism is how one gets to walk in newness of life.

Obviously Paul makes baptism necessary to salvation.

Note the order of events in Romans 6:17-18:
1) servants of sin
2) obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine
3) then freed from sin/justified, servants of righteousness.

See how "obeyed" comes BEFORE being freed from sin/justification? What was the 'form of doctrine' those Romans obeyed where then they were freed from sin?

Rom 6:7 says "For he that is dead is freed from sin."
From Romans 6:3-5 it is in baptism that one becomes "dead" baptized into the death of Christ.
From Rom 6:17,18 obeyed (water baptized > dead) then freed from sin.

No obedience to water baptism one is not dead therefore not freed from sin/justified.






Peter says baptism saves in 1 Pet 3:21. So how can anyone rightly claim baptism does not save?

Acts 2:38--------be baptized>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>remission of sins
1 Pet 3:21---------baptism>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves

Peter is talking about the same one baptism (Ephesians 4:5) in both passages and that one baptism saves. So all the logical, grammatical gymnastics one goes through in Acts 2:38 to make baptism not essential for remission of sins creates contradiction among verses when they are none.

So it is NOT repentance that saves/remits sins in Acts 2:38 but it is baptism that saves/remits sins in Acts 2:38 which is in perfect harmony with 1 Pet 3:21 that "baptism saves".




Requiring water baptism to be saved is not legalism, it is God's righteous choice. And submitting to God's will in being baptized is dong God's righteousness while not being baptized fails God's righteousness.

We'll agree to disagree. I know all of the scriptures because I used to be like you.
But I couldn't ignore the truth forever. Maybe you'll come to see someday that we are not saved by works. And scripture doesn't contradict itself.

 

[TheSeabass]

We'll agree to disagree. I know all of the scriptures because I used to be like you.
But I couldn't ignore the truth forever. Maybe you'll come to see someday that we are not saved by works. And scripture doesn't contradict itself.

Faith is a work, so how can works not saved.

 

[Grandpa2390]

Faith is a work, so how can works not saved.

I believe there is another thread about faith being a work. No need to argue about that here. and there are plenty of articles online about it.

Basically, there is human responsibility involved. If you are reformed, you are already familiar with the paradox of God's Grace and Human Responsibility. There are many such paradoxes in the Bible. We can't explain them we can only continue on to do what we are supposed to do.

Preach that people repent and be turned from their wickedness towards God. And then, that they be baptized and live a life like Christ. a Holy life set apart from the world. Amen?

 

[cuja1]

As far as being saved by faith only without “works”, that is true, but just like the Prodigal son wimped out of taking the punishment he fully deserved and humbly returned to the Father, we must wimp out, give up surrender to our enemy God and that will allow God to shower us with His charity.

I like that part.

 

[cuja1]

Faith is a work, so how can works not saved.

I thought faith was a gift.

 

[Honoluluwindow]

Why would you say that?

If it were not for you keeping yourself Holy you couldn't be saved?

 

[Honoluluwindow]

Faith is a work, so how can works not saved.

Fruchtenbaum

There are more than two hundred places in the New Testament where the condition for salvation is spelled out, and in all these, cases faith or belief is given as the one and only condition.

One must believe that Jesus has accomplished the salvation work on one's behalf. To be saved, one must believe not just that He died, but that He died for one's own sins. If one believes that Yeshua the Messiah died for his sins, that presupposes that one has confessed that he is a sinner. If Yeshua died for one's sins, obviously it means that he is a sinner. So one must believe that Yeshua died for his sins as his substitute, was buried and rose again, and therefore has provided salvation. Thus, one trusts Yeshua for his salvation.

This is the condition of salvation: faith must be placed in the Messiah as one's substitute for and as one's Savior from the penalty of sin.

First the word “faith” is used as “conviction that something is true.” Secondly, faith is used as “trust.” Thirdly, faith is used as “persuaded,” and it is stronger than mere opinion, though it is weaker than foreknowledge. Fourthly, faith is used as “belief based upon the facts of knowledge” (Rom. 10:14). And fifth, faith must have an object. The object of faith is God, while the content of faith is the death of the Messiah for one's sins, His burial and Resurrection.

If we are saved because of our faith then we aren't saved by what our faith is in. We are saved thru believing in the finished work not because we believe the finished work. The work of God saves and we receive the benefit of that work by trusting that that work alone is sufficient payment in the eyes of God our Father to satisfy His requirement for our sins, that payment is the blood of the only begotten Son of God.
Indeed my brothers and sisters the blood of Messiah is of infinite value.

 

[sdowney717]

Faith is not a work, it is a gift of God to you by His grace, according to the power which he wields within you to teach you and transform you into the image of Christ.

Romans 4New King James Version (NKJV)
Abraham Justified by Faith
4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

David Celebrates the Same Truth
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

Jesus said the work of God is that you believe in Him whom He has sent. John 6:29

So it is God who is at work among you to teach you and bring you to Christ, that is His work. Read John 6:37-45.
For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus to do good works which God has prepared beforehand for us to do. (actually before we were saved, since those who become saved are part of His foreknown plan for them.) Read Ephesians 2

 

[TheSeabass]

Fruchtenbaum

There are more than two hundred places in the New Testament where the condition for salvation is spelled out, and in all these, cases faith or belief is given as the one and only condition.

This is simply not the case. Paul once said he did not shun to declare ALL the counsel of God. Therefore one must look at all of god's word to see what is necessary to be saved and not cherry pick out certain verses.

believing saves John 3:16; John 8:24
repentance saves Lk 13:3
confession saves Mt 10:32,33
baptism saves 1 Pet 3:21
hope saves Rom 8:24
grace saves Eph 2:5
the gospel saves Rom 1:16
blood of Christ saves Rev 1:5
doctrine saves 1 Tim 4:16
works saves James 2:24; Rom 6:17-18
engrafted word saves James 1:21


So we are at a loss at those that claim 'belief only' saves when the bible proves many things contribute to one's salvation, not just belief alone.

One must believe that Jesus has accomplished the salvation work on one's behalf. To be saved, one must believe not just that He died, but that He died for one's own sins. If one believes that Yeshua the Messiah died for his sins, that presupposes that one has confessed that he is a sinner. If Yeshua died for one's sins, obviously it means that he is a sinner. So one must believe that Yeshua died for his sins as his substitute, was buried and rose again, and therefore has provided salvation. Thus, one trusts Yeshua for his salvation.

Will all the belief only in the world save an impenitent person? Never, Lk 13:3; Rom 2:4-5

This is the condition of salvation: faith must be placed in the Messiah as one's substitute for and as one's Savior from the penalty of sin.

First the word “faith” is used as “conviction that something is true.” Secondly, faith is used as “trust.” Thirdly, faith is used as “persuaded,” and it is stronger than mere opinion, though it is weaker than foreknowledge. Fourthly, faith is used as “belief based upon the facts of knowledge” (Rom. 10:14). And fifth, faith must have an object. The object of faith is God, while the content of faith is the death of the Messiah for one's sins, His burial and Resurrection.

If we are saved because of our faith then we aren't saved by what our faith is in. We are saved thru believing in the finished work not because we believe the finished work. The work of God saves and we receive the benefit of that work by trusting that that work alone is sufficient payment in the eyes of God our Father to satisfy His requirement for our sins, that payment is the blood of the only begotten Son of God.
Indeed my brothers and sisters the blood of Messiah is of infinite value.

Faith>>>>>>>>>saves Eph 2:8

repentance>>>>>saves/not perish Lk 13:3
confession>>>>>saves Rom 10:9,10
baptism >>>>>>saves 1 Pet 3:21

Since there is just one way to be saved, no alternatives, the NT faith INCLUDES repentance, confession and baptism and is not just a mere accent of the mid, mere acknowledgment of some fact(s).

 

[TheSeabass]

If it were not for you keeping yourself Holy you couldn't be saved?

God has determined that the group "Christian" is "holy and without blame" Eph 1:4. Therefore man has a role in being "holy and without blame" by becoming and remaining a Christian. God does not choose individual men at random and make those individuals unconditionally holy, make them holy for no reason at all.

 

[TheSeabass]

I thought faith was a gift.

In Eph 2:8 salvation is the gift of God.

Faith is a work God has given man to do. Faith comes by hearing Romans 10:17 so it is not something God hands out randomly to some men while withholding it from others else God is culpable for the faithless.

 

[TheSeabass]

I believe there is another thread about faith being a work. No need to argue about that here. and there are plenty of articles online about it.

Basically, there is human responsibility involved. If you are reformed, you are already familiar with the paradox of God's Grace and Human Responsibility. There are many such paradoxes in the Bible. We can't explain them we can only continue on to do what we are supposed to do.

Preach that people repent and be turned from their wickedness towards God. And then, that they be baptized and live a life like Christ. a Holy life set apart from the world. Amen?

I agree there is human responsibility involved. Christians (humans) have been commanded to be faithful unto death Rev 2:10. And if Christians do not live up to that responsibility to be faithful that Christian will be lost due to his unfaithfulness. Some do not understand that salvation in the bible is not 100% God that man has a role in his own salvation and must meet and faithfully fulfill his role. This is why those that support OSAS do not want to deal with the verses that require faithfulness on part of the Christian John 10:27, Philippians 1:5; etc.

 

[Honoluluwindow]

This is simply not the case. Paul once said he did not shun to declare ALL the counsel of God. Therefore one must look at all of god's word to see what is necessary to be saved and not cherry pick out certain verses.

believing saves John 3:16; John 8:24
repentance saves Lk 13:3
confession saves Mt 10:32,33
baptism saves 1 Pet 3:21
hope saves Rom 8:24
grace saves Eph 2:5
the gospel saves Rom 1:16
blood of Christ saves Rev 1:5
doctrine saves 1 Tim 4:16
works saves James 2:24; Rom 6:17-18
engrafted word saves James 1:21


So we are at a loss at those that claim 'belief only' saves when the bible proves many things contribute to one's salvation, not just belief alone.





Will all the belief only in the world save an impenitent person? Never, Lk 13:3; Rom 2:4-5





Faith>>>>>>>>>saves Eph 2:8

repentance>>>>>saves/not perish Lk 13:3
confession>>>>>saves Rom 10:9,10
baptism >>>>>>saves 1 Pet 3:21

Since there is just one way to be saved, no alternatives, the NT faith INCLUDES repentance, confession and baptism and is not just a mere accent of the mid, mere acknowledgment of some fact(s).

You are not saved and headed for hell.

 

[TheSeabass]

You are not saved and headed for hell.

You did not refute anything in my post.

Christ NEVER taught belief only for He made repentance, confession and baptism of equal importance and necessity to being saved.

 

[TheSeabass]

Faith is not a work, it is a gift of God to you by His grace, according to the power which he wields within you to teach you and transform you into the image of Christ.

Romans 4New King James Version (NKJV)
Abraham Justified by Faith
4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

David Celebrates the Same Truth
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

Jesus said the work of God is that you believe in Him whom He has sent. John 6:29

So it is God who is at work among you to teach you and bring you to Christ, that is His work. Read John 6:37-45.
For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus to do good works which God has prepared beforehand for us to do. (actually before we were saved, since those who become saved are part of His foreknown plan for them.) Read Ephesians 2

1 Thess 1:3 work of faith with faith describing the type of work
Galatians 5:5 faith which worketh

Mark 2:5 Jesus saw their faith. What Jesus saw that is called "faith" here is the WORK those men did in removing the roof and lowering the sick man down to Christ. Similar language in Jonah 3:10 "...And God saw their works..." What God saw that is called "works" was Nineveh's repentance. So belief and repentance are both works, so much so those works can even be seen.

Rom 5:1-------faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justifies
James 2:24----works>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justifies

Since there is just one way to be justified/saved, no alternatives, then faith must be a work.

A faith that has no works is a dead faith.

=======

In context, the "worketh not" of Romans 4:5 refers to perfect law keeping the OT required for one to be totally justified before God. It does not eliminate obedient works in doing the will of God for Abraham DID do works (Hebrews 11:8,17). So "worketh not" cannot eliminate ALL works including obedient works else you create a contradiction.

 

[sdowney717]

1 Thess 1:3 work of faith with faith describing the type of work
Galatians 5:5 faith which worketh

Mark 2:5 Jesus saw their faith. What Jesus saw that is called "faith" here is the WORK those men did in removing the roof and lowering the sick man down to Christ. Similar language in Jonah 3:10 "...And God saw their works..." What God saw that is called "works" was Nineveh's repentance. So belief and repentance are both works, so much so those works can even be seen.

Rom 5:1-------faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justifies
James 2:24----works>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justifies

Since there is just one way to be justified/saved, no alternatives, then faith must be a work.

A faith that has no works is a dead faith.

=======

In context, the "worketh not" of Romans 4:5 refers to perfect law keeping the OT required for one to be totally justified before God. It does not eliminate obedient works in doing the will of God for Abraham DID do works (Hebrews 11:8,17). So "worketh not" cannot eliminate ALL works including obedient works else you create a contradiction.

Those men of Nineveh surely repented themselves of their evil works, but there is no reason to think they went anywhere except to hell. God just delayed their certain destruction. In hell there may be levels of punishment. Some are as Jesus said whipped harder, some lesser.

 

[sdowney717]

Paul says each one in His church has been dealt by God a measure of faith, if so, then that faith is God's gift to them, they certainly earned it not. We are called individually to make up the body of Christ.
Romans 12:3-5 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)
3 For by the grace (unmerited favor of God) given to me I warn everyone among you not to estimate and think of himself more highly than he ought [not to have an exaggerated opinion of his own importance], but to rate his ability with sober judgment, each according to the degree of faith apportioned by God to him.

4 For as in one physical body we have many parts (organs, members) and all of these parts do not have the same function or use,

5 So we, numerous as we are, are one body in Christ (the Messiah) and individually we are parts one of another [mutually dependent on one another].


Romans 12:3-5King James Version (KJV)
3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

 

[Traveling teacher]

Yes we are 100% saved by works....
The work of Christ on the cross and His resurection!!

But to accept His work for our salvation we must meet His requirements......
Love Him more than mother father brother self.........
This is the greatest commandment and all others are underneath it............
So Love is the real test of our salvation and not faith alone!!!!

 

[Honoluluwindow]

You did not refute anything in my post.

Christ NEVER taught belief only for He made repentance, confession and baptism of equal importance and necessity to being saved.

Your faith is identical to that of Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses. Which are you?

 

[sdowney717]

You did not refute anything in my post.

Christ NEVER taught belief only for He made repentance, confession and baptism of equal importance and necessity to being saved.

You really think that?? If so you must be internally conflicted...If your really believed what Christ says.

John 5

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.