A lesson from Solomon... What does not end in emptiness...?

[Neogaia777]

A lesson from Solomon... What does not end in emptiness...?

Solomon basically was saying that everything he did, and tried to do, especially and mostly for himself, all ended in vanity or emptiness...

The only thing that has any hope of not ending up in emptiness, is what you do for and in serving or doing for others in some capacity...

This is the only thing that has at the very least a hope in not ending up in emptiness...

I say, "has a hope", because we will be checking it for fruit, and if it does not seem to be having any fruit at all, we can get discouraged, and it can feel empty as well, but, not if we see even a little bit of fruit...

That, at least, can keep us going and hoping... And can drive us to continue to do (it)... (Whatever your "it" in the matter of doing for others is)...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

My problem is, I have very few "others", I live alone, I am alone for the most part... I know I could probably go volunteer, feed the homeless, something like that... But, In order for it to satisfying, and gratifying, and for it to feel fulfilling, and me be happy in and with it, I have to be able to eventually see some fruit... And serving people I'm more than likely not going to see anymore or again, just won't do it for me...

I have a few friends, and my goal, when I am around them , is to get them thinking, growing, developing, improving, to raise their level of consciousness, and I am best at "one on ones" and one at a time... If I can get them thinking on a "higher level", and with the eventual goal of getting them walking and growing and developing and improving in love, then I would be very satisfied, and this would be eternally fulfilling and very satisfying for me...

But I do need it/that, without it I am lost and everything feels "empty"...

I guess you could say, "I love the labor of love", "if", IF, I get to see just some little bit of fruit sometimes, that will keep me going and drive me on...

God Bless!

 

[God bless Joshua]

A lesson from Solomon..

Absolute power corrupt absolutely
Absolute wealth damage morally

 

[Radagast]

A lesson from Solomon... What does not end in emptiness...?

Solomon basically was saying that everything he did, and tried to do, especially and mostly for himself, all ended in vanity or emptiness...

The only thing that has any hope of not ending up in emptiness, is what you do for and in serving or doing for others in some capacity...

That's not quite what he said. The answer in the last chapter is:

"Remember your Creator in the days of your youth ... here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil." (Ecclesiastes 12)

 

[derpytia]

A lesson from Solomon... What does not end in emptiness...?

Solomon basically was saying that everything he did, and tried to do, especially and mostly for himself, all ended in vanity or emptiness...

The only thing that has any hope of not ending up in emptiness, is what you do for and in serving or doing for others in some capacity...

This is the only thing that has at the very least a hope in not ending up in emptiness...

I say, "has a hope", because we will be checking it for fruit, and if it does not seem to be having any fruit at all, we can get discouraged, and it can feel empty as well, but, not if we see even a little bit of fruit...

That, at least, can keep us going and hoping... And can drive us to continue to do (it)... (Whatever your "it" in the matter of doing for others is)...

God Bless!

With all of my suffering both past and recent, I've learned the very hard lesson that material things and things that I thought brought happiness didn't bring lasting happiness at all. All the clothes, money, possessions, and "good" events in the world didn't bring lasting happiness to me.

But what does bring me lasting happiness is the times I've helped someone.

 

[Neogaia777]

That's not quite what he said. The answer in the last chapter is:

"Remember your Creator in the days of your youth ... here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil." (Ecclesiastes 12)

Sorry I should have said that my words about what Solomon thought ended with "Solomon basically was saying that everything he did, and tried to do, especially and mostly for himself, all ended in vanity or emptiness..."

And the next line was continuing on with my own thoughts, not Solomon's...

I didn't really say or mention anything about Solomon's conclusion(s), but what he was thinking in his "darkest moments" how he tried to fill it with everything (especially that that was selfish, or self-centered) and how it all came up empty...

Then added my own conclusions...

(though not my own)...

Oh and you "fear God and keep his commandments" and keep God in mind by doing what I am saying or concluding, (though not just I alone) By loving others, by doing for others...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Absolute power corrupt absolutely
Absolute wealth damage morally

Man's wisdom says it always does, but, God's wisdom says it "Can"... That it does not have to, but, "can"...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

.

 

[mark kennedy]

A lesson from Solomon... What does not end in emptiness...?

Solomon basically was saying that everything he did, and tried to do, especially and mostly for himself, all ended in vanity or emptiness...

The only thing that has any hope of not ending up in emptiness, is what you do for and in serving or doing for others in some capacity...

This is the only thing that has at the very least a hope in not ending up in emptiness...

I say, "has a hope", because we will be checking it for fruit, and if it does not seem to be having any fruit at all, we can get discouraged, and it can feel empty as well, but, not if we see even a little bit of fruit...

That, at least, can keep us going and hoping... And can drive us to continue to do (it)... (Whatever your "it" in the matter of doing for others is)...

God Bless!

As I recall Solomon said to fear God and obey his commandments was something that was one of the few things that wasn't vanity. He also says it was good for a man to work and enjoy the fruit of his labor.

 

[crixus]

Absolute power corrupt absolutely
Absolute wealth damage morally

Amen to that.

 

[Neogaia777]

As I recall Solomon said to fear God and obey his commandments was something that was one of the few things that wasn't vanity. He also says it was good for a man to work and enjoy the fruit of his labor.

What is it to fear God and Obey his commandments though, if not the two laws about Love Jesus gave us...? And those being a labor (work) of (towards) Love, and the Labor of love...? And enjoying the fruit of that Love...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

What is it to fear God and Obey his commandments though, if not the two laws about Love Jesus gave us...? And those being a labor (work) of (towards) Love, and the Labor of love...? And enjoying the fruit of that Love...

God Bless!

And, if you can obey without the fear, (by Love) then the fear is no longer necessary, not once you "get it" anyway... Fear is a temporary tutor leading us to Christ, or love or the God Of Love, that is Love, and once you get and have a permanent hold on/of Love, the fear is no longer necessary...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

And, if you can obey without the fear, (by Love) then the fear is no longer necessary, not once you "get it" anyway... Fear is a temporary tutor leading us to Christ, or love or the God Of Love, that is Love, and once you get and have a permanent hold on/of Love, the fear is no longer necessary...

God Bless!

What I'm trying to say is that I think God, would much rather have us obey him out of Love (if we truly can do that) than fear... But, if we cannot yet do that, then maybe we should fear...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

While I may not have it exactly, perfectly right, would you at least agree that the premise of the OP is sound...?

God Bless!

 

[mark kennedy]

What is it to fear God and Obey his commandments though, if not the two laws about Love Jesus gave us...? And those being a labor (work) of (towards) Love, and the Labor of love...? And enjoying the fruit of that Love...

Sure he did, 'submit you selves to one another in the fear of God' (Eph. 5:21). The thief on the cross rebuked the other man being crucified telling him don't you fear God since you suffer the same fate, we deserve this but this man has done nothing. In the Beatitudes the Lord teaches do not fear him that destroys the body, but fear him who can destroy both body and soul in hell.

In the opening stanzas of Proverbs it tells us for attaining wisdom and disciple, understanding the riddles and sayings of the wise, doing what is just, fair and right. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom but fools despise wisdom and discipline.

As far as the love of God We are to submit to one another, husbands to wives...even slaves to their masters as unto the Lord' and masters to their slaves, since we must all give an account.

God Bless!

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Neogaia777]

Sure he did, 'submit you selves to one another in the fear of God' (Eph. 5:21). The thief on the cross rebuked the other man being crucified telling him don't you fear God since you suffer the same fate, we deserve this but this man has done nothing. In the Beatitudes the Lord teaches do not fear him that destroys the body, but fear him who can destroy both body and soul in hell.

In the opening stanzas of Proverbs it tells us for attaining wisdom and disciple, understanding the riddles and sayings of the wise, doing what is just, fair and right. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom but fools despise wisdom and discipline.

As far as the love of God We are to submit to one another, husbands to wives...even slaves to their masters as unto the Lord' and masters to their slaves, since we must all give an account.


Grace and peace,
Mark

What kind of fear though...? Cause some kind of fear can be healthy, but a lot of fear can be unhealthy, (and unproductive, and useless and pointless), as it all to often, only makes things and us, (and our sins), (or disobedience) (and temptations to sin or disobey) even worse...

What kind of fear is the good kind that I'm sure the scriptures mean...? Vs, the bad kind of fear...

Also, did you see post #13 three posts above this...? That if you cannot be perfect in love, or are not yet perfect in love, than we should maybe fear till we are, maybe, then fear no longer... Cause scripture also says perfect love casts out fear, and those in fear are not yet perfect in love...

1 John 4:18- "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because (unhealthy) fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love."

1 John 4:17- "Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness (or are without fear) in the day of judgment: because as he is (love), so are we (love) in this world."

The thief on the cross who did fear God, what kind of fear was it...?

God Bless!

 

[mark kennedy]

What kind of fear though...? Cause some kind of fear can be healthy, but a lot of fear can be unhealthy, (and unproductive, and useless and pointless), as it all to often, only makes things and us, (and our sins), (or disobedience) (and temptations to sin or disobey) even worse...

What kind of fear is the good kind that I'm sure the scriptures mean...? Vs, the bad kind of fear...

Also, did you see post #13 three posts above this...? That if you cannot be perfect in love, or are not yet perfect in love, than we should maybe fear till we are, maybe, then fear no longer... Cause scripture also says perfect love casts out fear, and those in fear are not yet perfect in love...

1 John 4:18- "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because (unhealthy) fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love."

1 John 4:17- "Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness (or are without fear) in the day of judgment: because as he is (love), so are we (love) in this world."

The thief on the cross who did fear God, what kind of fear was it...?

God Bless!

Th Hebrew is pretty simple really, the word in the Proverbs passage:

fear (יִרְאָה yirʼâh H3373 also used as infinitive); morally, reverence.​

The Ephesians 5:21 passage has a more lengthy definition, do note that the word for fear is the word we get phobia from:

"reverential fear," (G5401 φόβος phobos) of God, as a controlling motive of the life, in matters spiritual and moral, not a mere "fear" of His power and righteous retribution, but a wholesome dread of displeasing Him, a "fear" which banishes the terror that shrinks from His presence, Rom 8:15, and which influences the disposition and attitude of one whose circumstances are guided by trust in God, through the indwelling Spirit of God, Act 9:31; Rom 3:18; 2Cr 7:1; Eph 5:21 (RV, "the fear of Christ"); Phl 2:12; 1Pe 1:17 (a comprehensive phrase: the reverential "fear" of God will inspire a constant carefulness in dealing with others in His "fear"); 3:2, 15; the association of "fear and trembling," as e.g., in Phl 2:12, has in the Sept. a much sterner import, e.g., Gen 9:2; Exd 15:16; Deu 2:25; 11:25; Psa 55:5; Isa 19:16; (Vines Dictionary)
​

The passage in 1 John 4 is the same word. Notice the distinction made between fear of righteous retribution and fear that shrinks back from his presence. There is a 'reverential' fear that is most likely, something that is gone when we see him as he is and become to perfect righteousness of Christ in the resurrection. One thing is sure, if we fear God we have nothing to fear from man.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Neogaia777]

Th Hebrew is pretty simple really, the word in the Proverbs passage:

fear (יִרְאָה yirʼâh H3373 also used as infinitive); morally, reverence.​

The Ephesians 5:21 passage has a more lengthy definition, do note that the word for fear is the word we get phobia from:

"reverential fear," (G5401 φόβος phobos) of God, as a controlling motive of the life, in matters spiritual and moral, not a mere "fear" of His power and righteous retribution, but a wholesome dread of displeasing Him, a "fear" which banishes the terror that shrinks from His presence, Rom 8:15, and which influences the disposition and attitude of one whose circumstances are guided by trust in God, through the indwelling Spirit of God, Act 9:31; Rom 3:18; 2Cr 7:1; Eph 5:21 (RV, "the fear of Christ"); Phl 2:12; 1Pe 1:17 (a comprehensive phrase: the reverential "fear" of God will inspire a constant carefulness in dealing with others in His "fear"); 3:2, 15; the association of "fear and trembling," as e.g., in Phl 2:12, has in the Sept. a much sterner import, e.g., Gen 9:2; Exd 15:16; Deu 2:25; 11:25; Psa 55:5; Isa 19:16; (Vines Dictionary)
​

The passage in 1 John 4 is the same word. Notice the distinction made between fear of righteous retribution and fear that shrinks back from his presence. There is a 'reverential' fear that is most likely, something that is gone when we see him as he is and become to perfect righteousness of Christ in the resurrection. One thing is sure, if we fear God we have nothing to fear from man.

Grace and peace,
Mark

a "fear" which banishes the terror that shrinks from His presence"

A fear which banishes the fear or terror the enemy (Satan) (or man or men) causes and is, that shrinks from God's presence...?

Is that what you mean...?

If so, how does that work...? A fear that banishes fear...?

Also, fear is not only not perfect love, but it is also the antithesis of faith, cause it is "doubt"...

When Peter began to sink when walking on water, when he became afraid, Jesus said "oh you of little faith, why did you give way to doubt (or fear)...?

And whomever doubts (fears) is not of the true faith as he is a double-minded man, unsteady in all his ways...

What about that...?

What do you think...?

God Bless!

 

[mark kennedy]

a "fear" which banishes the terror that shrinks from His presence"

A fear which banishes the fear or terror the enemy (Satan) (or man or men) causes and is, that shrinks from God's presence...?

Is that what you mean...?

If so, how does that work...? A fear that banishes fear...?

Let's keep track of how these words are used, for instance:

During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. (Heb. 5:7)​

Which is different then this kind of fear.

But My righteous one will live by faith; and if he shrinks back, I will take no pleasure in him.” But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls. (Heb. 10:38-39)​

We are used to thinking of fear (phobios) as a morbid fear or dread, in this passage it's reverent submission. The English word fear will be different then the Greek and certainly the Hebrew will be stronger. They way I'm understanding fear in a biblical context is kind of being in awe, which is very different then cowering.

Also, fear is not only not perfect love, but it is also the antithesis of faith, cause it is "doubt"...

When Peter began to sink when walking on water, when he became afraid, Jesus said "oh you of little faith, why did you give way to doubt (or fear)...?

And whomever doubts (fears) is not of the true faith as he is a double-minded man, unsteady in all his ways...

What about that...?

What do you think...?

God Bless!

Jesus loved the Father and still, at least as a man, walked in reverent submission. Meanwhile there is another kind of fear:

Therefore, since the children have flesh and blood, He too shared in their humanity, so that by His death He might destroy him who holds the power of death, that is, the devil, and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. (Heb. 2:14-15)
​

Being double minded is really more like pursuing the things of the world and the things of God at the same time. Jesus talks about the things that chock out the word, including the cares of this life and the deceitfulness of riches. Worrying about the bills is something we all deal with, I guess it's always fun to imagine what we would do if we won the lottery. The devil has ways of making his influence known, the intimidation factor can be overwhelming. When we set our hearts on the things that are above we are not free of fear, I don't even know that we will not always have some kind of 'reverent submission'. I still maintain that if we fear God we have nothing else to fear. It's not the kind of fear that cowers but a sense of awe that dwarfs us before the magnificent power of God. Trusting always in his mercy and his grace we can approach the throne of God confident in a righteousness not our own. That's why believers are not those who shrink back.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Tayla]

Solomon basically was saying that everything he did, and tried to do, especially and mostly for himself, all ended in vanity or emptiness...

The only thing that has any hope of not ending up in emptiness, is what you do for and in serving or doing for others in some capacity...

Yes, a good point. I would also add, things focused on God: worship of him, devotion and meditation, prayer, etc.