A Healing Priestess and Feminist Christianity

[Phantasman]

That is not of God.

And there you have it. Debate over.

 

[pescador]

Paul wrote this to the Galatians: "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

Debate not over.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Thank you for your open mind, my friend. I pray we commune/debate in truth.

In John 6:63 Jesus is confronting physical thought. Male and female are physical, and people miss the spiritual Jesus was teaching. He saw everyone as spirit and soul, and he came to save the soul with the spirit. If he says the flesh profits nothing, why do we cling or think with the flesh.

The Holy Spirit is the teacher. Without it, we don't understand.

Jesus said to them, "When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the female female; and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and a likeness in place of a likeness; then will you enter the kingdom."- Gospel of Thomas

Male/Female, Black/White, young/old, all look the same when viewed spiritually. Our eyes deceive us.

Seems the sarcasm wasn't detected.

The gospel of Thomas and other gnostic writings are not inspired by God and are not authoritative. Though I'm sure they're a fascinating read, much like a Harry Potter novels.

 

[ViaCrucis]

This is what happens when people deviate from the scriptures, and is one of the reasons Paul prohibited women teaching in the Church. It was Eve who sinned first and was deceived. To those who will not heed sound doctrine and teaching, this cult is a good example of where it will lead.

Right, it's not like heresy or apostasy was ever the result of men in positions of teaching or authority, well, I mean unless you count Simon Magus, Hymenaeus, Philetus, Cerinthus, Nicholas, Valentinus, Basiledes, Marcion, Montanus, Ebion, Sabellius, Paul of Samosota, Noetus, Novatian, Arius, Apollinarius, Macedonius, Priscillian, Donatus, Photinus, Audius, Eutyches, Pelagius, Julian of Halicarnassus, Sergius of Constantinople, Joachim of Fiore, Amalric of Bena, Faustus Socinus, Thomas Müntzer, the Zwickau Prophets (Nicholas Storch, Thomas Dreschel, and Markus Stübner), Hendrik Niclaes, Joseph Smith Jr., Charles Taze Russel, E.W. Kenyon, Herbert Armstrong, ad infinitum.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Phantasman]

Seems the sarcasm wasn't detected.

The gospel of Thomas and other gnostic writings are not inspired by God and are not authoritative. Though I'm sure they're a fascinating read, much like a Harry Potter novels.

Sorry I missed your sarcasm. And who determines what Christian writings are authoritative and which are not?

 

[Zoii]

They appear to be heretics:

Divine Feminine | herchurch
Goddess Painting and More | herchurch
Goddess Mural | herchurch

God is not a goddess. The furthest one could possibly take it is to call God androgynous based on certain interpretations of Gen 1:26-27, but in Scripture the Lord is repeatedly revealed as Father, and Christ as the Son. Contemporary pagan religions had gods and goddesses, so if God had chosen to reveal himself as feminine instead, I don't see the Israelites having a problem with that. For a long time, they worshiped Ashtoreth as well.

How on earth could anyone say here if God actually has a gender - I mean for goodness sake why would God need a penis - he/she doesnt need to urinate and he/she doesnt need to have sex. I would suggest its purely the thoughts of Man that give God a gender. We need a different term - Instead of saying He say Neut - or just God

So with that logic I see it as quite OK to refer to God as a Goddess because its no less logical in terms of a gender.

 

[Phantasman]

And that would be blasphemous idolatry, not Christianity. God is not a female. And Christianity does not have sacerdotal priests or priestesses.

The word Christian and Christianity has been twisted so much, it's hard to know what either means. If you don't do this or that, you're not a Christian. If you do this or that, you are. Orthodox belief is that only the Bible is truth, the Word of God.

I would never say such ignorant words because I don't know, and neither do you or anyone else.

The Codex Sinaiticus includes Barnabas, Shepherd of Hermes and Revelations is in the middle, not the end. The Ethiopian Bible had 81 books. Just saying "the Bible says so" doesn't work with me, nor does it for any other Christian seeker who experiences truth beyond the Catholic creed. More all Bible's are a product of 1st and 2nd century books (Gospels, letters, Apochraphons, etc.). If the Catholic Bible, instituted in third century is the only word(s) of God, I feel sorry for all those Christians killed, murdered and died in the first and second century that just didn't have the Catholic truth like we do.

Male, female is physical. Think spiritual.

 

[Phantasman]

How on earth could anyone say here if God actually has a gender - I mean for goodness sake why would God need a penis - he/she doesnt need to urinate and he/she doesnt need to have sex. I would suggest its purely the thoughts of Man that give God a gender. We need a different term - Instead of saying He say Neut - or just God

So with that logic I see it as quite OK to refer to God as a Goddess because its no less logical in terms of a gender.

lol. I love your answer.

BTW- Heretic just means non acceptance of a religious doctrine, used by the Catholics of yore. Has nothing to do with spiritual knowledge of the Father or the Son.

 

[Sketcher]

How on earth could anyone say here if God actually has a gender - I mean for goodness sake why would God need a penis - he/she doesnt need to urinate and he/she doesnt need to have sex. I would suggest its purely the thoughts of Man that give God a gender. We need a different term - Instead of saying He say Neut - or just God

So with that logic I see it as quite OK to refer to God as a Goddess because its no less logical in terms of a gender.

God revealed himself in Scripture as the Heavenly Father, not the Heavenly Mother. Jesus also referred to him as Father, not Mother. Jesus himself was the Son of God, not the Daughter of God. It simply is what it is.

 

[Paidiske]

But does the difference between "father" and "mother" mean anything when there's no biology behind it? That sort of question, while speculative, can have value, if only in forcing us to notice our own prejudices.

To me, the issue isn't in sometimes using maternal language and imagery for God (again, we find that in Scripture); it's of seeming to project our own ideas of what is maternal onto God, as if God were somehow a human mother writ large. And yet God transcends all such human projections.

 

[Zoii]

God revealed himself in Scripture as the Heavenly Father, not the Heavenly Mother. Jesus also referred to him as Father, not Mother. Jesus himself was the Son of God, not the Daughter of God. It simply is what it is.

What you have failed to do is address what I stated. Exactly how is he male? Are you suggesting that God has a physical form with a penis? Are you suggesting he has Y chromosomes? If you are then wow that's stretching it. The fact that the bible says "He" is a natural expression for something that is personified...but surely you cant truly believe that God is actually male in some sort of physical form with a penis - Gender makes absolutely no sense with reference to God.

 

[Phantasman]

God being male is a Catholic Orthodox lie to once again instill patriarchy as an authority.

The best description of God the Father I ever heard and agree with is this one.

"He is the invisible Spirit, of whom it is not right to think of him as a god, or something similar. For he is more than a god, since there is nothing above him, for no one lords it over him. For he does not exist in something inferior to him, since everything exists in him. For it is he who establishes himself. He is eternal, since he does not need anything. For he is total perfection. He did not lack anything, that he might be completed by it; rather he is always completely perfect in light. He is illimitable, since there is no one prior to him to set limits to him. He is unsearchable, since there exists no one prior to him to examine him. He is immeasurable, since there was no one prior to him to measure him. He is invisible, since no one saw him. He is eternal, since he exists eternally. He is ineffable, since no one was able to comprehend him to speak about him. He is unnameable, since there is no one prior to him to give him a name.

"He is immeasurable light, which is pure, holy (and) immaculate. He is ineffable, being perfect in incorruptibility. (He is) not in perfection, nor in blessedness, nor in divinity, but he is far superior. He is not corporeal nor is he incorporeal. He is neither large nor is he small. There is no way to say, 'What is his quantity?' or, 'What is his quality?', for no one can know him. He is not someone among (other) beings, rather he is far superior. Not that he is (simply) superior, but his essence does not partake in the aeons nor in time. For he who partakes in an aeon was prepared beforehand. Time was not apportioned to him, since he does not receive anything from another, for it would be received on loan. For he who precedes someone does not lack, that he may receive from him. For rather, it is the latter that looks expectantly at him in his light.

"For the perfection is majestic. He is pure, immeasurable mind. He is an aeon-giving aeon. He is life-giving life. He is a blessedness-giving blessed one. He is knowledge-giving knowledge. He is goodness-giving goodness. He is mercy and redemption-giving mercy. He is grace-giving grace, not because he possesses it, but because he gives the immeasurable, incomprehensible light.- Secret book of John

He is mind (spirit) creating by mere thought. Sorry, no penis required. Just because "he" is used doesn't make him male. Masculine (spirit) and Feminine (spirit) are equally existent in the Father. The Holy Spirit is a Feminine (spirit) nurturer of the Father. And once Jesus physically left us, his "true" spiritual mother arrived to spiritually nurture us.

If there is any doubt in those words, I'm all ears.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Paul wrote this to the Galatians: "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

Debate not over.

That scripture has to do with our salvation and the body of Christ. Galatians is not the book of church doctrine and structure. It is however the book that describes the effects of false teaching, ironically enough. It is awesome that a sister went and prayed for you and you received the Lord. That is the grace of God. But it does not legitimize a woman to have authority over men in the context of the church. To which scripture clearly lays out the order that the Lord established.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

He is mind (spirit) creating by mere thought. Sorry, no penis required. Just because "he" is used doesn't make him male. Masculine (spirit) and Feminine (spirit) are equally existent in the Father. The Holy Spirit is a Feminine (spirit) nurturer of the Father. And once Jesus physically left us, his "true" spiritual mother arrived to spiritually nurture us.

Jesus was born anatomically a male, this is a fact. Jesus said, if you have seen HIM you have seen the FATHER. Genesis says let us create MAN in OUR image. Surely you can say body, soul, spirit = Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Never the less, the LORD refers to himself as male, as HIM over and over in scripture. This is not a mistake. The idea that the trinity is asexual is gnostic at best, heresy at worst. This is what happens when the culture tries to manipulate the scripture and gathers a stronghold in the mind twisting scripture and casting doubt on the very word of God.

 

[Paidiske]

Genesis says let us create MAN in OUR image.

...in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

Male and female both in God's image, not one more than the other. It really does help to finish reading the paragraph.

 

[Phantasman]

Jesus was born anatomically a male, this is a fact. Jesus said, if you have seen HIM you have seen the FATHER. Genesis says let us create MAN in OUR image. Surely you can say body, soul, spirit = Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Never the less, the LORD refers to himself as male, as HIM over and over in scripture. This is not a mistake. The idea that the trinity is asexual is gnostic at best, heresy at worst. This is what happens when the culture tries to manipulate the scripture and gathers a stronghold in the mind twisting scripture and casting doubt on the very word of God.

The only manipulation of the Gospel is those who divide it up rather than seeing the whole.

Gnostic just means one who seeks "knowledge" (Gnosis is Greek for knowledge). Heresy is not following a set doctrine. I am guilty of both, as you say.

I will not use any non Canon Biblical since I am in an Orthodox box. This forum used to be called Unorthodox Theology. I was here many years ago for a long time. I had friends who were JWs, Mormons, and so on. I see they changed the name, and put many into world religions. The atmosphere hasn't changed. It's a place for Orthodoxy to attack anything they don't understand or even wish to debate. Orthodoxy is a broken record, small amounts of truth swirling in a box of confusion.

I was Nazarene Orthodox for almost 30 years. A youth minister, music minister and asist to the Pastor. I personally know the difference between being controlled in a box and "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed".

So many topics on death, hell, eternal torment, sin, and a slew of other things not understood but argued. Freedom is being able to seek truth/understanding in all places ( including hidden ones) and not where a few men tell you it is.

Luke:
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Even a truth from the OT:
Psalms:
6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

To seek wisdom and knowledge, you don't even follow your own books in a box. How could I ever expect you to understand the spiritual truth. Arguing whether God is male or not is a waste of time and reminds me of the arguements JWs had that it was a torture stake and not a cross. Move on. It doesn't matter. It's not what Jesus died on, but what he died for.

 

[All4Christ]

*

It may not be clear according to scripture. But of course there's tradition to consider. I'll see if I can find out more about the role of deaconesses in the early church according to tradition. I'm pretty sure I can find something written about it.

Can you cite a source which shows that the original Greek manuscripts said.."Junia?" Those manuscripts haven't existed for a long time now. St. Jerome copied from them about 1600 years ago. He wrote.."Junias," not "Junia." His was the oldest Bible, used in the West, which is still in use.

St John Chrysostom considered St Junia to be a woman (paraphrase - how great a woman to be worthy of the title apostle). Also, it is a traditional understanding in the Orthodox Church to consider St Junia to be a woman.

St. Junia
Apostle Junia - OrthodoxWiki


ETA: "Even to be an apostle is great, but to be of note among them - consider how wonderful a song of honour that is. For they were of note because of their works, because of their successes. How great the wisdom of this woman that she was even deemed worthy of the title of the apostles."

 

[2Timothy2:15]

...in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

Male and female both in God's image, not one more than the other. It really does help to finish reading the paragraph.

You should read on in Chapter two where the Lord explains it in context. It really does help to flip the page and put things in context.

21And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Taken out of Man, Man being created in the image and woman being created out of Man. Really context is everything.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Gnostic just means one who seeks "knowledge" (Gnosis is Greek for knowledge). Heresy is not following a set doctrine. I am guilty of both, as you say.

I did not say you were guilty of both, I said that is the root of that teaching. Gnostic does not simply mean knowledge as you suppose. Occult means hidden knowledge and Gnostic's believe they have some special knowledge that is somehow beyond what is in scriptures.....Gnostic's are truly deceived and I see more and more of the Gnostic doctrine being put forth these days, off topic and rather large topic.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

How on earth could anyone say here if God actually has a gender - I mean for goodness sake why would God need a penis - he/she doesnt need to urinate and he/she doesnt need to have sex. I would suggest its purely the thoughts of Man that give God a gender. We need a different term - Instead of saying He say Neut - or just God

So with that logic I see it as quite OK to refer to God as a Goddess because its no less logical in terms of a gender.

We know that God is a spiritual being and does not possess physical characteristics. This does not limit, however, how God may choose to reveal Himself to humanity. Scripture contains all the revelation God gave to humanity about Himself, and so it is the only objective source of information about God. In looking at what Scripture tells us, there are several observations of evidence about the form in which God revealed Himself to humanity.

Scripture contains approximately 170 references to God as the “Father.” By necessity, one cannot be a father unless one is male. If God had chosen to be revealed to man in a female form, then the word “mother” would have occurred in these places, not “father.” In the Old and New Testaments, masculine pronouns are used over and over again in reference to God.

Jesus Christ referred to God as the Father several times and in other cases used masculine pronouns in reference to God. In the Gospels alone, Christ uses the term “Father” in direct reference to God nearly 160 times. Of particular interest is Christ’s statement in John 10:30: “I and the Father are one.” Obviously, Jesus Christ came in the form of a human man to die on the cross as payment for the sins of the world. Like God the Father, Jesus was revealed to humanity in a male form. Scripture records numerous other instances where Christ utilized masculine nouns and pronouns in reference to God.

The New Testament Epistles (from Acts to Revelation) also contain nearly 900 verses where the word theos—a masculine noun in the Greek—is used in direct reference to God. In countless references to God in Scripture, there is clearly a consistent pattern of His being referred to with masculine titles, nouns, and pronouns. While God is not a man, He chose a masculine form in order to reveal Himself to humanity. Likewise, Jesus Christ, who is constantly referred to with masculine titles, nouns, and pronouns, took a male form while He walked on the earth. The prophets of the Old Testament and the apostles of the New Testament refer to both God and Jesus Christ with masculine names and titles. God chose to be revealed in this form in order for man to more easily grasp who He is. While God makes allowances in order to help us understand Him, it is important to not try to “force God into a box,” so to speak, by placing limitations on Him that are not appropriate to His nature.