A Greek word game
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Ah, the heck with it. I'll just let Sungenis answer for me and save folks the trouble so that we can get into the meat and potatoes of what you'd like to discuss:
Question 40- Greek for "full of grace"
Whereas the Greek could have used a simple noun phrase to address Mary, Luke, for his particular reasons, chooses a complex verb. In this case, the Greek verb kekaritomene is titular. That being the case, the best way to translate this in English is: "Fully-Graced One."
The decision to have it translated differently was started by Protestant Theodore Beza, who rendered it as "freely beloved." Protestant translations such as the KJV, RSV and NIV followed this trend and rendered it "favored one," as do some liberal-minded Catholic translations (NAB, NJB).
They do this because they are trying to imply that the state of grace is extrinsic or forensic, not intrinsic or infused. When the Vulgate translates kekaritomene as "full of grace" it is imply that Mary was infused with divine grace in her soul. When the KJV translates it as "favored one" it is implying that grace is not infused but that Mary was extrinsically blessed. Hence, the translations all depend on the theology behind it.
This principle would also apply to passages such as Ephesians 1:6 where the Greek indicative, active, aorist ECHARITOSEN (which is derived from the same verb as kekaritomene) is translated as "he graced." If you are Catholic you will see this as a reference to the infusion of grace; if Protestant, as a gracious blessing from God.
Although it is true that John 1:14 and Acts 6:8 use the Greek PLERES CHARITOS, which is literally translated "full of grace," here we have an instance in which Jesus and Stephen, respectively, are filled with grace. That shows that a "filling" of grace can be applied to the God-Man or to a man. Again, a Catholic would understand this action as an infusion of grace, whereas a Protestant would see it as merely an extrinsic divine gift or blessing.
The reason Luke didn't choose PLERES CHARITOS for Mary is that the phrase cannot, in itself, distinguish time, agent or continuity, whereas KEKERITOMENE can. Being a perfect, passive, participle that is applied on a titular basis, KEKERITOMENE denotes that: (a) the state of grace began in past time, (b) it is a completed and accomplished action, (c) its results continue into the present, (d) that the verbal title is received by Mary from an outside agent.
Although these four grammatical characteristics do not prove the Immaculate Conception, KEKARITOMENE is the best Greek word that could have been chosen to coincide with it. Any other Greek word would have been inadequate or even faulty. That is all we can really say, gramatically speaking.
Question 40- Greek for "full of grace"
Dear Dr. Sungenis,
Forgive me for pressing around this issue as I've written to you before relating to the Immaculate Conception, but I have one more question.
It seems there is ample confusion regarding what the original Greek said in Luke 1:28. One Protestant website states: The phrase "full of grace" in Greek is "plaras karitos" and it occurs in only two places in the New Testament, neither one is in reference to Mary. (John 1:14; Acts 6:8)
While some Catholic websites state the Greek is "Kecharitomene": The traditional translation, "full of grace," is better than the one found in many recent versions of the New Testament, which give something along the lines of "highly favored daughter." Mary was indeed a highly favored daughter of God, but the Greek implies more than that (and it never mentions the word for "daughter"). The grace given to Mary is at once permanent and of a unique kind. Kecharitomene is a perfect passive participle of charitoo, meaning "to fill or endow with grace."
So which is it? I understand that by the very nature of her birthing the Christ she had to have been kept pure for the most perfect Incarnation, but it would be nice to have this issue cleared up. Whose going by the best original Greek?
Thank you!
R. Sungenis: The difficulty with the word is that it is a verb that is being used as the name of a person. It is similar to how the American Indians named their babies (e.g., "Running Deer," "Hunting Bear," etc). Forgive me for pressing around this issue as I've written to you before relating to the Immaculate Conception, but I have one more question.
It seems there is ample confusion regarding what the original Greek said in Luke 1:28. One Protestant website states: The phrase "full of grace" in Greek is "plaras karitos" and it occurs in only two places in the New Testament, neither one is in reference to Mary. (John 1:14; Acts 6:8)
While some Catholic websites state the Greek is "Kecharitomene": The traditional translation, "full of grace," is better than the one found in many recent versions of the New Testament, which give something along the lines of "highly favored daughter." Mary was indeed a highly favored daughter of God, but the Greek implies more than that (and it never mentions the word for "daughter"). The grace given to Mary is at once permanent and of a unique kind. Kecharitomene is a perfect passive participle of charitoo, meaning "to fill or endow with grace."
So which is it? I understand that by the very nature of her birthing the Christ she had to have been kept pure for the most perfect Incarnation, but it would be nice to have this issue cleared up. Whose going by the best original Greek?
Thank you!
Whereas the Greek could have used a simple noun phrase to address Mary, Luke, for his particular reasons, chooses a complex verb. In this case, the Greek verb kekaritomene is titular. That being the case, the best way to translate this in English is: "Fully-Graced One."
The decision to have it translated differently was started by Protestant Theodore Beza, who rendered it as "freely beloved." Protestant translations such as the KJV, RSV and NIV followed this trend and rendered it "favored one," as do some liberal-minded Catholic translations (NAB, NJB).
They do this because they are trying to imply that the state of grace is extrinsic or forensic, not intrinsic or infused. When the Vulgate translates kekaritomene as "full of grace" it is imply that Mary was infused with divine grace in her soul. When the KJV translates it as "favored one" it is implying that grace is not infused but that Mary was extrinsically blessed. Hence, the translations all depend on the theology behind it.
This principle would also apply to passages such as Ephesians 1:6 where the Greek indicative, active, aorist ECHARITOSEN (which is derived from the same verb as kekaritomene) is translated as "he graced." If you are Catholic you will see this as a reference to the infusion of grace; if Protestant, as a gracious blessing from God.
Although it is true that John 1:14 and Acts 6:8 use the Greek PLERES CHARITOS, which is literally translated "full of grace," here we have an instance in which Jesus and Stephen, respectively, are filled with grace. That shows that a "filling" of grace can be applied to the God-Man or to a man. Again, a Catholic would understand this action as an infusion of grace, whereas a Protestant would see it as merely an extrinsic divine gift or blessing.
The reason Luke didn't choose PLERES CHARITOS for Mary is that the phrase cannot, in itself, distinguish time, agent or continuity, whereas KEKERITOMENE can. Being a perfect, passive, participle that is applied on a titular basis, KEKERITOMENE denotes that: (a) the state of grace began in past time, (b) it is a completed and accomplished action, (c) its results continue into the present, (d) that the verbal title is received by Mary from an outside agent.
Although these four grammatical characteristics do not prove the Immaculate Conception, KEKARITOMENE is the best Greek word that could have been chosen to coincide with it. Any other Greek word would have been inadequate or even faulty. That is all we can really say, gramatically speaking.
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Vasileios
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as a Greek, my contribution to this thread is that the correct pronounciation is "pliris haritos" or "pl-ee-r-ees ha-ree-tos" (greek πλήρης χάριτος
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Tonks, sometimes I like your snarkiness. I wasn't being "sneaky".. I thought some folks might find the Greek words interesting, versus the choice of translation made by Jerome. Which, it seems, the whole doctrine of mariology relies on.
So, where do you find plaras karitos?
So, where do you find plaras karitos?
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wasn't meant to be (that) snarky.
There is no word in the Greek text that is translated 'highly.' The word that is translated 'favored' is 'khar-ee-tuh-oh,' which is the verb form of 'khar-ece' (charis), which is our word 'grace.' Thus, 'charito-o' means: 'indue with special honor; be highly favored; be full of or filled with grace.'
In fact, the old King James had as a standard textual note for 'highly favoured': 'Or, graciously accepted, or, much graced.' Also, every time in the New Testament that you see the word 'grace' (save one - in James 1:11), it is the Greek word 'charis,' which tells me that the verb form of 'cgaris' is best translated with 'grace.'
Luke 1:28 uses the Greek word (κεχαριτωμενη "kecharitōmenē" which Saint Jerome translated into Latin as 'gratia plena'. The root word in Greek is "charis" (χαρις which is "gratia" in Latin and "GRACE" in English.
Jerome's Vulgate translates it thusly:
28 et ingressus angelus ad eam dixit have gratia plena Dominus tecum benedicta tu in mulieribus
The DR translates the latin into english:
28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Here is an Interlinear (pdf of Luke 1) Perhaps one of our Greek friends (welcome, btw) can shed some light.
There is no word in the Greek text that is translated 'highly.' The word that is translated 'favored' is 'khar-ee-tuh-oh,' which is the verb form of 'khar-ece' (charis), which is our word 'grace.' Thus, 'charito-o' means: 'indue with special honor; be highly favored; be full of or filled with grace.'
In fact, the old King James had as a standard textual note for 'highly favoured': 'Or, graciously accepted, or, much graced.' Also, every time in the New Testament that you see the word 'grace' (save one - in James 1:11), it is the Greek word 'charis,' which tells me that the verb form of 'cgaris' is best translated with 'grace.'
Luke 1:28 uses the Greek word (κεχαριτωμενη
"kecharitōmenē" which Saint Jerome translated into Latin as 'gratia plena'. The root word in Greek is "charis" (χαρις which is "gratia" in Latin and "GRACE" in English.Jerome's Vulgate translates it thusly:
28 et ingressus angelus ad eam dixit have gratia plena Dominus tecum benedicta tu in mulieribus
The DR translates the latin into english:
28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Here is an Interlinear (pdf of Luke 1) Perhaps one of our Greek friends (welcome, btw) can shed some light.
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I'm liking that interlinear pdf file. Pretty cool.
While I can say along with you, as Luke 1:28 translates it, Mary was highly favored. She was blessed greatly in being chosen of God. But the Greek word, kexaritomena, is translated as favored, made acceptable or make graceful.
Where did St Jerome get the "plena"? That's the part I'm not seeing in his Vulgate.
While I can say along with you, as Luke 1:28 translates it, Mary was highly favored. She was blessed greatly in being chosen of God. But the Greek word, kexaritomena, is translated as favored, made acceptable or make graceful.
Where did St Jerome get the "plena"? That's the part I'm not seeing in his Vulgate.
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