I think you hit the nail on the head. These things you mention as a Christian are outside the political sphere. We as believers are supposed to help those in need. We are never commanded to end poverty. We can't and won't. The Bible tells us that there will always be poor people. We cannot remove poverty. Because poverty is most often the result of the consequences of poor choices in America. And we are dealing only with America here.
But you are looking at it as an ACTION and not as a MINDSET. I think that is where we differ. My desire to help the poor is my desire to help the poor. I do that by advocating by contributing through my church, by volunteering and working with that population, and by advocating that my tax dollars are used to help the poor.
As believers we are to help the poor. As an individual and as a church. But the Bible never tells as that we have to have a government that takes from some and gives to others. It's always a command to believers ONLY. And it is up to the INDIVIDUAL on how much and to whom the INDIVIDUAL gives. It's between the INDIVIDUAL and God.
The Bible never tells us what kind of government to have so that point is beyond moot. The Bible also doesn't tell us to have a government that outlaws homosexuality OR abortion and yet here we are. Right wingers will argue that the government NEEDS to intervene to stop abortions but it's certainly not outlined in the Bible anywhere.
So then what? Well, as a CHRISTIAN, what do you want your tax dollars to go towards? As a Christian, should your tax dollars go towards a wall keeping poor people away or should it go to a soup kitchen to help hte poor in your community?
And the Bible doesn't say a thing about national healthcare. Once again it's about the individual and the church. It tells us as an individual we should care for the sick, give water to the thirsty, care for the stranger. Be kind and compassionate. It doesn't command us to force our neighbor to do the same. It's about believers doing their part not about a government doing everything and providing for everyone's needs.
This argument is soooooooooo weak dude.
If you buy health insurance you are providing for other people's needs.
I mean, you KNOW that right. You know that insurance schemes ALL work this way. YOu KNOW this. Your insurance payments pay for other people's work.
So take another kick at that can.
You are not a doctor, but you are willing to pay for SOME people to have a doctor help them, but ONLY if they have enough money.
And the church in Acts moved to take care of each other. And I would hope the church today is doing the same. As you read Paul's letters you discover that the churches did not all and could not all do what happened in the church in the beginning of Acts. And none of the apostles commanded any of the churches to do what happened then. In fact Paul ASKED the churches to help as they could. And told each person that there was no requirement on how much they needed to give.
Man, but don't you GET it?
It's not about REQUIREMENT, it's about ATTITUDE.
And the church in Acts only helped their BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN CHRIST. They did not give all their money and belongings to everyone thoughout the city.
Again, mindset.
Paul also commanded that people in the church that were helped had to work. They had to work in the church and work to help others. He also said if a person does not work they should not eat.
That is FALSE. He said anyone who doesn't WANT to work. That verse is misquoted to the extreme and then it becomes misapplied. There are many, many people who are unable to work or unable to hold down jobs. Let me know if you need some examples.
As a compassionate nation we SHOULD help people. I believe in compassionate capitalism. If an employer can afford it. They should provide health insurance to their employees. Even the part timers. It's good for business in the end. It makes for happier employees which makes them more likely to support the business and hopefully work harder. Which in turn makes the business better.
I believe as a compassionate society that we should help the helpless. If you cannot work because of illness or disability then we should take care of you. If you can work then you should be working.
But here's the mind blower: You DON'T believe that. You don't believe in a compassionate society. You
HOPE for compassionate individuals to step up. A compassionate society uses all the tools available to them to support those in need. It's not a society that says "This is how we must help people and there is no other way".
A few years ago when unemployment was high, unemployment benefits were extended. I heard from a number of people who told me or others than they were not going to look for a job for the entire time they had extended unemployment. They were just going to enjoy their time off. ON OUR DIME. I talked to a number of employers who could not get employees they needed because the people who applied didn't really want to work for them. They wanted to stay on unemoyment. So the business was running short on people.
1)Have you lived on unemployment? Being on unemployment, essentially keeps you from dying for the most part.
2) So what? That some people do that is between them and their conscious. Are you going to withhold support from people in need because of a "few people you talked"?
Can we do better on healthcare? I believe we can. There are a number of things we can do without going for single payer.
But that attitude just seems so absurd. Still, I'm curious.
How can you ensure thta EVERYONE receive adequate health care without causing the prices you pay to explode. Your entire system is a shambles and so many stories are terrible. And single payer systems are just better. They JUST ARE. It can't be denied. Don't be affraid of that change when it comes.
Bottom line is neither Christ nor the apostles commanded government to take care of anyone. Not did they advocate for forcing others to take care of people. He commanded YOU to do it. He commanded ME to do it. He didn't tell me I should go to my unbelieving neighbor and demand he do it.
Well this argument is just silly. Christ wasn't here to work with governments in ANY way! He worked to touch people, individuals. He tried to teach them that God will provide for them; that they don't need to worry "because not a hair will fall for from your head". And yet there is FEAR in people at a single payer system. There is FEAR over a food stamp program EXISTING because it may not be 100% efficient or something like 3% of cases are fraudulent.
I find it kind of humorous that right wingers expect me to think that their motives for this is altruistic "I don't want nonbelievers to help the poor. I have to but other people don't". They don't have an obligation to do that". It feels like a truly disgusting view of humanity really; that nobody has to care for anyone unless the deity you believe in requires it of you.
Out of curiousity, did you know that the fraud rate for government programs in multimillion and billion dollar outcomes is ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE greater than fraud cases amongst the poor. And yet I NEVER hear concerns about that. Why do we allow rich people to get away with it but not the poor folk? (Hint: Because rich people will drag cases through courts for decades bearing a HUGE expense to the IRS. There was an article on this a few months ago even. Poor people can't fight).
And I and my family DO help others. Christians are the most generous people I know with their own money. Our church is constantly involved in our community helping people. Most churches are.
I agree and I love it and it's beautiful. And there is no ethical or logical reason to not WANT that to happen across our society.
Help people in need but they must do things to help themselves as well. Both are needed to be compassionate.
Find me the Bible verse thta supports "Help people in need BUT they must do things to help themselves as well". A single verse that expresses both of those ideas.
I struggle to find them.
