A God who can't be proven?

[Caliban]

While I spent hours investigating over time about a dozen putative contradictions (and they tend to not amount to much, and some just disappear upon reading more fully), the only truly serious possible contradiction, if it happened, would be if there were easy objective proof of God (before faith or the 2nd coming). That would be a 'contradiction' that actually amounts to a serious thing.

I can't help but notice you are going through a list of common talking points. They are like political talking points in that they are popular and get repeated and we hear them a lot. Of course each one has been answered here over and over at CF.

Is calling them talking points a way for you to pacify cognitive dissonance by leaving the critique unaddressed?

 

[Halbhh]

Is calling them talking points a way for you to pacify cognitive dissonance by leaving the critique unaddressed?

No, it's a way to point out to you and others that it's only an old rhetorical argument, used just like a political operative would use, to create an impression, often regardless of facts to the contrary.

In other words, at that point, starting to become like propaganda. (repeated for effect)

But in contrast, if a person sincerely asks a single question and doesn't repeat 3 or 6 of these old talking points, (or at least not several in one day) so that it doesn't become merely talking points propaganda, then we could take it as a serious question (that is sincere, honest) and actually address it in depth.

In other words, many are willing to answer sincere and real questions.

Just don't snow us with lots of talking points.

Also, if you are sincere, then don't try to put words in my mouth I didn't say.

 

[Caliban]

No, it's a way to point out to you and others that it's only an old rhetorical argument, used just like a political operative would use, to create an impression, often regardless of facts to the contrary.

In other words, at that point, starting to become like propaganda. (repeated for effect)

But in contrast, if a person sincerely asks a single question and doesn't repeat 3 or 6 of these old talking points, (or at least not several in one day) so that it doesn't become merely talking points propaganda, then we could take it as a serious question (that is sincere, honest) and actually address it in depth.

In other words, many are willing to answer sincere and real questions.

Just don't snow us with lots of talking points.

Also, if you are sincere, then don't try to put words in my mouth I didn't say.

I am not using talking points.

 

[Jok]

I fully agree that a good education is an obstacle to faith and theistic belief. This is why so many non-believers champion education.

One person’s education is another person’s indoctrination. It’s gonna be pretty much a given that the percentages will side with the prevailing opinions of society and the dominant opinion of university professors, the common mantra that faith is an enemy of reason. And a lot of people just don’t go through a phase in life where they strongly question the meaning of life, it won’t take much at all for these people to agree with the common notion that education is at odds with theism, which heavily beefs up the numbers in favor of educated people dumping their religion. There’s no such thing as an unbiased education.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I fully agree that a good education is an obstacle to faith and theistic belief. This is why so many non-believers champion education.

....oh, that's rich! I think I'll use it for philosophical fertilizer.

 

[Caliban]

One person’s education is another person’s indoctrination. It’s gonna be pretty much a given that the percentages will side with the prevailing opinions of society and the dominant opinion of university professors, the common mantra that faith is an enemy of reason. And a lot of people just don’t go through a phase in life where they strongly question the meaning of life, it won’t take much at all for these people to agree with the common notion that education is at odds with theism, which heavily beefs up the numbers in favor of educated people dumping their religion. There’s no such thing as an unbiased education.

In the universities we have nothing like a catechism. Nothing like a confession of faith. There is no Westminster confession of physics or The Heidelberg confession of relativity. Such doctrines come from communities of faith. Doctrine = indoctrination. Universities encourage free expression, exploration, and challenging assumptions. Universities are not perfect. They are not always the best humanity has too offer, b ut they are the best model for advancement we have right now. Maybe like you, I wish there was less woeness and post-teenage absurdity.

 

[Caliban]

....oh, that's rich! I think I'll use it for philosophical fertilizer.

But am I wrong???

 

[2PhiloVoid]

But am I wrong???

As an educated person, and knowing what I know, I am willing to say you're half right.

 

[Caliban]

As an educated person, and knowing what I know, I am willing to say you're half right.

Care to elaborate on the half you disagree with?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Care to elaborate on the half you disagree with?

Simply that Christianity, in and of itself, does not mandate nor preclude the repudiation of any and all modern education. If may be repudiated among more Hyper Fundamentalist and/or Charismatic Christian groups, but Christianity doesn't dampen educational endeavors just "because."

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Care to elaborate on the half you disagree with?

It's probably more accurate to say that certain interpretations of the Bible or of various Christian Traditions could prevent a person from more expansively inquiring into the nature of the world around us.

 

[Jok]

In the universities we have nothing like a catechism. Nothing like a confession of faith. There is no Westminster confession of physics or The Heidelberg confession of relativity. Such doctrines come from communities of faith. Doctrine = indoctrination.

I am very eclectic, I probably wouldn’t have done too well in those environments, many would call me a heretic. I am not at all a fan of inerrancy and people saying it’s my way or the highway as far as interpretations go. Institutional dogma gets locked in and goes overboard in both directions IMO.

Universities encourage free expression, exploration, and challenging assumptions.

There was a time where I would agree with this but definitely not today. Speak until your heart is content if your opinion sides with the left. Tread very very carefully or we will destroy you if you are conservative. It’s not even that uncommon to have speakers with a conservative leaning to get forced off of campus by security. Usually as a result of irate students, hardly an environment of free thinking, and welcoming to assumptions.

 

[Caliban]

Simply that Christianity, in and of itself, does not mandate nor preclude the repudiation of any and all modern education. If may be repudiated among more Hyper Fundamentalist and/or Charismatic Christian groups, but Christianity doesn't dampen educational endeavors just "because."

Gotcha.

 

[Caliban]

I am very eclectic, I probably wouldn’t have done too well in those environments, many would call me a heretic. I am not at all a fan of inerrancy and people saying it’s my way or the highway as far as interpretations go. Institutional dogma gets locked in and goes overboard in both directions IMO.

There was a time where I would agree with this but definitely not today. Speak until your heart is content if your opinion sides with the left. Tread very very carefully or we will destroy you if you are conservative. It’s not even that uncommon to have speakers with a conservative leaning to get forced off of campus by security. Usually as a result of irate students, hardly an environment of free thinking, and welcoming to assumptions.

I can agree with some of that, however most of the current trouble occurs at elite private schools (with a few exceptions). Most public universities serve first generation college students from working class neighborhoods, they are there to learn and work.

 

[Jok]

I can agree with some of that, however most of the current trouble occurs at elite private schools (with a few exceptions). Most public universities serve first generation college students from working class neighborhoods, they are there to learn and work.

Well you definitely won’t get an argument from me if it’s made to look worse than it really is, I think that everything under the sun is selective reporting to fit a certain narrative lol. I never thought about that distinction before.

 

[JohnClay]

I updated the web page to talk about the Tooth Fairy...
The Bible Test - Life's Player

....The faith of a child is praised (who might also believe in the Tooth Fairy), while "the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight" (1 Corinthians 3:18-19)....

edit: I thought it was relevant but perhaps it is a bit too offensive and is already kind of implied.

 

[HitchSlap]

But am I wrong???

Educated people are sometimes better at squaring the circle if there are social reinforcement factors involved.

 

[Hawkins]

Our education didn't tell the truth, at least elite from education don't know the basic truth.

The basic truth is humans don't rely on evidence or proof to reach a truth. They mostly rely on faith in testimonies to reach such a truth.

All left is who can fool the mass of humans including the smartest, well whether it's speculation or advocate, a capable being named Satan can have the capability of fooling humans in mass through our own education system.

That said, when is the last you proved anything with evidence, while your brain is fed with everything in this world? We can be fed with every detail in this world without you doing a single proof or seeing a single evidence. This is how this reality operates.

"If you want us to believe, show us the evidence" <--- this is the biggest lie ever but works well to the educated.

We read daily news (which can be faked as put by Trump but we never prove them by ourselves), we read histories (this part is not provable basically, nor can be evidenced). We know for a fact that black holes (wow a science) exist but 99.99% humans (i.e., around 70 billion of us) don't actually have the evidence, because only few scientists professed in black holes can use the expensive equipment to get to the evidence. None of the above are relying on evidence or proof to reach the 99.99% humans. This is however uninformed by our education.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Educated people are sometimes better at squaring the circle if there are social reinforcement factors involved.

... like what kind of "social reinforcement factors"?

 

[HitchSlap]

... like what kind of "social reinforcement factors"?

C’mon, you’re a smart guy. I bet you can think of a few.