A Foolproof Way to Become a Calvinist

[A_Thinker]

You said this:

"God, Himself, has made it possible for us to maintain relationship without 100% obedience"

Now you say that you can love God without obeying Him at all.

What did Jesus mean when He said, "If you love me you will obey my commands"?

As the text clearly states ... our LOVING JESUS ... RESULTS in our following His commands.

As I responded previously to the Bible Highlighter, I accede to his point that no believer is ever without ANY obedience to God. For he/she obeys God ... in coming to Him. So that may answer your question about a minimum.

It certainly applies in the case of the thief on the cross, and takes his salvation out of the realm of special pleading ... to being squarely based within the salvific principles of the scriptures. At some point, the thief received God's salvation by belief. Upon receiving the gift of God, the thief proceeded to act in obedience to the will of God. He took Christ's part and testified of Christ's goodness before his railing counterpart. And he testified of his belief directly to his Savior ... "Lord, when you come into your kingdom, ... remember me."

My position is the same as that of Paul in Ephesians 2.

We receive salvation BY (God's) GRACE, ... through our FAITH/BELIEF ... which is GIFTED to us by God.

It is entirely NOT OF WORKS, so that none of us could ever boast (except in the GIFT bestowed upon us).

For we are the WORKMANSHIP of God Himself, ... Who has saved us ... so that we might WORK the WORKS for which He has ordained for us.

So then, salvation begets WORKS.

We are saved, and THEN we are enabled to obedience to God.

As such, it becomes clear that, WITHOUT FAITH (through which we come to salvation) ... we have no hope of ever pleasing God (i.e. obeying).

However, if we LOVE JESUS, ... we will obey His commands ...

 

[A_Thinker]

Do you deserve God's mercy? Is God obligated to show you mercy?

God DESIRES ... to show mercy ...

 

[A_Thinker]

I believe the "holding back" or the "restraint" or "forbearance" of God involving the sins past is in reference to God not destroying believers in the Old Testament right away ...

Is it your position ... that God exercises no FORBEARANCE with you ?

 

[A_Thinker]

It is true. Verse 20 is saying that nobody can be justified by the deeds of the Law. This would be the Law of Moses because Paul says in verse 1, what profit is there in circumcision?

Except ... that Paul also says, "For by the LAW, is the KNOWLEDGE of sin".

So ... Paul IDENTIFIES the PURPOSE, and thus, the NATURE, of the LAW to which he refers. It is not only ceremonial. It exists for us to IDENTIFY SIN.

Recall, that even in the OT, the two greatest Laws, cited by JJ in the OP, are ... "Love the Lord with everything you've got" and ... "Love your neighbor as you love yourself." This is not simply ceremonial. These is no SIN to which these do not refer.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

God DESIRES ... to show mercy ...

True, but that doesn't answer my question.

 

[Charlie24]

Do you deserve God's mercy? Is God obligated to show you mercy?

For sure we do not deserve Gods mercy. But God is obligated to show His mercy.

He obligated Himself when He said, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Rom. 10:13

 

[jimmyjimmy]

For sure we do not deserve Gods mercy. But God is obligated to show His mercy.

He obligated Himself when He said, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Rom. 10:13

Who is the Lord?

 

[renniks]

Try to do this for a day:

“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.” — Jesus

What does this have to do with Calvinism?

 

[Charlie24]

Who is the Lord?

A five year old asked me that question a couple of weeks ago.

I told him the Lord is the Creator of all things and He placed us here to care for His animals, the trees, and all of nature He created. He wants us to love each other as He loves us. But most of all He wants us know His Son who showed us the greatest love all.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

A five year old asked me that question a couple of weeks ago.

I told him the Lord is the Creator of all things and He placed us here to care for His animals, the trees, and all of nature He created. He wants us to love each other as He loves us. But most of all He wants us know His Son who showed us the greatest love all.

Actually, the Son, not the Father, is referenced in the passage you quoted.

Now, back to the point: The Father says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

 

[Charlie24]

Actually, the Son, not the Father, is referenced in the passage you quoted.

Now, back to the point: The Father says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

I'm guessing that you want my take on this scripture.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

He will have mercy and compassion on those who meet His conditions.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

You can will the mercy and compassion but you must meet the condition. You can run/do works but it's not granted by merit. You must meet the conditions.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

God did not predestine Pharaoh to take a position of rebellion. God used his stubbornness to glorify His Name. God forced nothing on him but gave him over to his rebellion.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

God will have mercy on all who meet his conditions. If one insists on stubbornness and hardness, God will let you have stubbornness and hardness.

 

[Charlie24]

I'm guessing that you want my take on this scripture.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

He will have mercy and compassion on those who meet His conditions.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

You can will the mercy and compassion but you must meet the condition. You can run/do works but it's not granted by merit. You must meet the conditions.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

God did not predestine Pharaoh to take a position of rebellion. God used his stubbornness to glorify His Name. God forced nothing on him but gave him over to his rebellion.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

God will have mercy on all who meet his conditions. If one insists on stubbornness and hardness, God will let you have stubbornness and hardness.

God gave Pharaoh many, many chances to change his fate, but he refused them all. It was all Pharaoh'a choice.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I'm guessing that you want my take on this scripture.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

He will have mercy and compassion on those who meet His conditions.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

You can will the mercy and compassion but you must meet the condition. You can run/do works but it's not granted by merit. You must meet the conditions.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

God did not predestine Pharaoh to take a position of rebellion. God used his stubbornness to glorify His Name. God forced nothing on him but gave him over to his rebellion.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

God will have mercy on all who meet his conditions. If one insists on stubbornness and hardness, God will let you have stubbornness and hardness.

Thanks.

As far as meeting conditions to obtain mercy, I don't see the conditions. Did you forget to include them?

As far as Pharaoh goes, you've laid of the Calvinist position perfectly. Calvinists don't believe that Pharaoh, or anyone else for that matter, are forced to do anything.

 

[Charlie24]

Thanks.

As far as meeting conditions to obtain mercy, I don't see the conditions. Did you forget to include them?

As far as Pharaoh goes, you've laid of the Calvinist position perfectly. Calvinists don't believe that Pharaoh, or anyone else for that matter, are forced to do anything.

The condition is this.

Luke 13:3
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

 

[Charlie24]

The condition is this.

Luke 13:3
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

There will be no mercy or compassion if there is no repenting.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

There will be no mercy or compassion if there is no repenting.

Which comes first?

 

[Charlie24]

Which comes first?

Which comes first?

Jimmy it's a guessing game with you.

I sense you are constantly trying to catch someone in a trap.

Would you mind stating clearly what you mean and the point you are trying to make?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Jimmy it's a guessing game with you.

I sense you are constantly trying to catch someone in a trap.

Would you mind stating clearly what you mean and the point you are trying to make?

If it's fair that you may ask me a question, is it not fair that I may ask you one as well?

 

[Charlie24]

If it's fair that you may ask me a question, is it not fair that I may ask you one as well?

When I ask you a question I make it clear as to what I'm referring to. Is this what you are doing? I don't think so! Your questions are shrouded in mystery.

If you can't make yourself clear for a proper response, how can we communicate?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

When I ask you a question I make it clear as to what I'm referring to. Is this what you are doing? I don't think so! Your questions are shrouded in mystery.

If you can't make yourself clear for a proper response, how can we communicate?

If it's too much for you, please quit.