A Few Questions for Calvinists (Trying to figure out what you believe).

Mountainmanbob

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Meaning, there was a bigger picture or plan to what Job could not see as to why he suffered. It had nothing to do with Calvinistic Election or forced regeneration.

Romans 9 reminds me of the story of Job. It seems job complains a little and God puts him in his place. In Romans 9 God tells us exactly what he can do as far as raising one up for wrath or another for good probably for seeing that man being who we are will cry that's not fair.

The Armenians think that it would not be fair if everyone was not included.

The Calvinists are humble and grateful not knowing why they were chosen.

Best knowing that I had nothing to do with it.

While others will be puffed up in themselves thinking I'm smarter than my neighbor I made a decision to be saved.

Who gets the glory in that?

M-Bob
 
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Whether or not you want to hear that it was corrected--or you even notice that it happened--the point remains the same. To say that God forces his own creation to be saved is an inaccurate description of the Calvinist POV. You are not asking Calvinists to answer questions about what they believe; you are asking them to defend an incorrect stereotype of their beliefs.



Love is not the subject.

Love is not the subject?

Uh, for God so loved the world? (John 3:16).
 
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Mountainmanbob

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Not interested in viewing Calvinistic videos

Well since the answers to your questions may be found there I would think you're not seriously looking for the answers?

M-Bob
 
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JLB777

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1. Do you believe that God forces some to be not saved against their will?
2. Do you believe Jesus died for all people or just for the Elect or the saved?
3. Did God directly create evil?
4. Does God force regenerate (i.e. to be born again) the Elect before they make a free will choice to accept Christ?
5. Does God choose the saved or unsaved based upon what He knew they were going to do?
6. Once God saves somebody, is there no possible chance they can become unsaved?
7. Are God's Elect saved even while they abide in unrepentant sin sometimes?
8. Which of the 5 points of Calvinism do you believe in and can you explain them?
9. Is there such a thing called "free will"?
10. If there is a thing called "free will", does it always exist for the entire lifespan of a man who he is alive, mentally healthy, and conscious?
11. If you believe God predetermines some to be saved and some to not be saved, then what is the purpose of the Judgment?

Please provide Scripture as a part of your answers (if you can).

Thank you.


It is doubtful you will receive any scriptures from any Calvinist's for the first question, let alone all 10.

Calvinism is a theology built upon the human reason's of man, and are not founded upon the solid rock of truth found in the Bible.


Sadly enough, the teachings of Calvinism permeate the Church today, in the subtle teachings of the "seeker friendly" and "feel good" messages being presented from the pulpits across America, in the hopes of making the congregation comfortable, in the heavily emphasized tithing and giving atmosphere of our post modern Churches.



JLB
 
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Yes, God loves the world. That still wasn't the topic of your thread.
Are you saying that my seeking to find the truth about Calvinism has nothing to do with love?
 
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Mountainmanbob

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Calvinism is a theology built upon the human reason's of man, and are not founded upon the solid rock of truth found in the Bible.
Calvinism permeate the Church today, "seeker friendly" and "feel good"
.
It seems that you are actually pointing out Arminian views taken.
Prosperity Gospel easy believism excetera excetera.
M-Bob
 
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Albion

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How can "seeker friendly" and "feel good" theology be laid at the doorstep of Calvinism at the same time as Calvinism is being described as God forcing something upon a person against his will? It cannot be both at once.
 
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Well since the answers to your questions may be found there I would think you're not seriously looking for the answers?

M-Bob

If you cannot provide an answer to what they are saying, that means you really don’t know the answer to give it. I am not going to watch false things anymore than you want to do so.
 
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JLB777

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Are you saying that my seeking to find the truth about Calvinism has nothing to do with love?

Turning those who have strayed from the truth, back, is the way of love, just as preaching the Gospel to the lost.

19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20


  • he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.


Love covers a multitude of sins.




JLB
 
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JLB777

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How can "seeker friendly" and "feel good" theology be laid at the doorstep of Calvinism at the same time as Calvinism is being described as God forcing something upon a person against his will? It cannot be both at once.


That is why I said it is "subtle".


It weaves the false claims of Calvinism into the messages, designed to lull the congregation into complacency, with the idea they are "predestined" to salvation and nothing can change it.



JLB
 
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Albion

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Are you saying that my seeking to find the truth about Calvinism has nothing to do with love?
You must stay focused.

1. If you want to know what Calvinists think about the TULIP points, define what constitutes a Calvinist (when asked, you declined to provide a definition, although you restricted the replies to Calvinists).

2. Ask questions that are not loaded, not of the "When did you stop beating your wife?" variety.

3.And do not change the topic in mid-discussion (to "love" or something else).

That's if you really want the answers you say you do.
 
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Tree of Life

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1. Do you believe that God forces some to be not saved against their will?

No.

2. Do you believe Jesus died for all people or just for the Elect or the saved?

Jesus only died for the elect.

3. Did God directly create evil?

God is not the author of sin.

4. Does God force regenerate (i.e. to be born again) the Elect before they make a free will choice to accept Christ?

God regenerates a person apart from their will and enables them to freely choose him.

5. Does God choose the saved or unsaved based upon what He knew they were going to do?

No. His choice is free and not constrained or based on anything foreseen in the creature.

6. Once God saves somebody, is there no possible chance they can become unsaved?

No. When God purposes to save someone he always succeeds.
7. Are God's Elect saved even while they abide in unrepentant sin sometimes?

Yes.

8. Which of the 5 points of Calvinism do you believe in and can you explain them?

All of them. And yes I can explain them.
9. Is there such a thing called "free will"?

Yes.
10. If there is a thing called "free will", does it always exist for the entire lifespan of a man who he is alive, mentally healthy, and conscious?

Yes, in a sense. Man is basically free in that he is able to do what he wants to do. But unregenerate sinners are not free to worship God or to convert themselves because they don't desire to do this. Unrepentant people hate God.

11. If you believe God predetermines some to be saved and some to not be saved, then what is the purpose of the Judgment?

For God to be glorified in his justice and mercy.
 
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Albion

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That is why I said it is "subtle".

It weaves the false claims of Calvinism into the messages, designed to lull the congregation into complacency, with the idea they are "predestined" to salvation and nothing can change it.

JLB
As I wrote, it appears to be contradictory, not merely subtle.

But I'm willing to hear your explanation about how a religious approach that is often criticized as putting salvation totally on the shoulders of the individual, simply asking him to say he is saved and that's all there is to it...can be attributed to a POV (Calvinism) that makes God totally sovereign, totally in charge of people's salvation, and even (it is charged) arbitrary in making his choices.
 
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Well since the answers to your questions may be found there I would think you're not seriously looking for the answers?

M-Bob

Let me ask you. Have you ever not wanted to watch a video about what you believed to be a false belief somebody wanted you to watch so as to answer your questions about their wrong belief they were having? Again, if you understood the points they made to refute me, then surely you should be able to repeat them here for us to read.
 
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Neal of Zebulun

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Really, Romans 9 is very clear. Yahweh created Esau and Pharaoh to be vessels of destruction, in order to reveal His wrath and power, and He is completely righteous in doing so, even if man and his understanding of Scripture thinks otherwise.

There is nothing about us or in us that we can do of our own power, including practicing free will. Yahweh created and gave us free will, fully knowing everything we would do with it, even if we don't.

Yahweh knows everything.
 
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Truthfrees

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I will try and deal with #1. I think if non-Calvinists can just understand this first issue there would be much less confusion.

God does not force anyone to do anything "against their will". What He does is come into your heart and change it's desire. So where your heart was not willing before, now it is willing. It's still your will, but it is now enlightened and accepting of the things of God.

For those who God does not do this for, they remain on the same unbelieving, unwilling course they have always been on.

Deuteronomy 30:6
Ezekiel 36:26-27
John 3:6-8
God bless you my friend

does this mean man's unregenerate will is to reject God and only if God regenerates a person can they choose God?

meaning God chooses who to regenerate and who to not?

if so why does God choose to regenerate some and not others?
 
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Jason0047 said:
1. Do you believe that God forces some to be not saved against their will?

My official response will have to wait on this until you reply to one my points below within this post.
But I am getting the impression that you should have said "yes" and not "no" based on what you said below. But I will wait until you respond back (if you choose to do so).

Jason0047 said:
2. Do you believe Jesus died for all people or just for the Elect or the saved?
You said:
Jesus only died for the elect.

Not according to Scripture. The Bible says,

"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." (1 John 2:2).

"The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." (John 1:29).

Jason0047 said:
3. Did God directly create evil?
You said:
God is not the author of sin.

I am glad; But you should realize that there are Calvinists who do claim that God directly created evil and sin. They wrongfully justify this by quoting Isaiah 45:7 where it says God creates evil in the KJV. But the word "evil" does not mean "evil" like we use it today (of which I am sure you agree).

But the problem you are faced with is that you said that God does not choose based on anything foreseen within in the creature. This means that God is just randomly choosing some to be saved and some not to be saved. This means it is God's will to make some people to be evil seeing God can easily prevent it by making them a saved and good person. So while God is not directly creating evil in this case (i.e. creating an already sinful being from the ground up), God is still directly involved in preventing an evil person to exist in your belief and God allowing such a being to exist (When He could prevent it) means God wants that evil person to be their one and only choice. Meaning, it is similar to God directly creating an evil being from the ground up because this being had no other choice but to do evil because God declared that they were reprobate without any hope without any free will choice on their part. So in a way, what you are saying is not exactly true because God decrees reprobate individuals to exist (outside of their own free will choice).

Jason0047 said:
4. Does God force regenerate (i.e. to be born again) the Elect before they make a free will choice to accept Christ?
You said:
God regenerates a person apart from their will and enables them to freely choose him.

While it is possible I am misunderstanding you, I honestly getting the impression you do not believe that. For are you truly saying that after God regenerates a person, they have a choice of their own free will to reject God just as they have an equal choice to accept Him? If this is the case, then why doesn't God do this for all people? Why wouldn't God give everyone the free will choice to choose to accept Him or reject Him? Does that not seem more fair and loving of God to do that?

Jason0047 said:
5. Does God choose the saved or unsaved based upon what He knew they were going to do?
You said:
No. His choice is free and not constrained or based on anything foreseen in the creature.

Thank you for your admittance to this. I believe this helps me to demolish or show you the moral error of your belief. Thank you. But how is this possible? Because we know that life teaches us that true love happens when two parties both agree of their own free will to love each other. For if a man forces his love upon a woman it is not true love but it is something dark and twisted.

Jason0047 said:
6. Once God saves somebody, is there no possible chance they can become unsaved?
You said:
No. When God purposes to save someone he always succeeds.

So this means that they do not have free will after they are regenerated. They can no more choose to deny God and walk away from Him after they are regenerated than they can hit bricks with their fists and not feel pain or shoot laser beams out of their eyes. But you said before they do have free will after they are regenerated. Also, this implies that a believer can sin and still be saved, as well (Thereby turning God's grace into a license to sin). For there is nothing they can do to become unsaved.

I will have to reply to the rest of what you had written later.
I still need to answer the first person who answered my questions. He had given me an indepth reply whereby it would have taken more time to answer. But I thank you for replying.

May God bless you;
And may you please be well.
Please do not be offended in anything I say.
I am merely attacking the belief and not you as a person.

Peace be unto you from the Lord.

Sincerely,

~ Jason.
 
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Truthfrees

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5. Does God choose the saved or unsaved based upon what He knew they were going to do?
No. His choice is free and not constrained or based on anything foreseen in the creature.No. His choice is free and not constrained or based on anything foreseen in the creature.
how does God choose who to regenerate - so they can then have a free will to choose God?
 
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