A few canonical points about Fr. James Martin's latest book

[Michie]

Defending his book, Building a Bridge (2017), Jesuit Father James Martin claims that its consistency with Church teaching is attested to by (A) his own good standing as a priest, and (B) the canonical approval of the book received from his Jesuit superior. Martin's first claim, that he is a priest in good standing, is neither contested nor relevant to the question of whether his book is doctrinally sound or pastorally trustworthy...

Continued below.
About Fr. Martin’s book

 

[chevyontheriver]

Defending his book, Building a Bridge (2017), Jesuit Father James Martin claims that its consistency with Church teaching is attested to by (A) his own good standing as a priest, and (B) the canonical approval of the book received from his Jesuit superior. Martin's first claim, that he is a priest in good standing, is neither contested nor relevant to the question of whether his book is doctrinally sound or pastorally trustworthy...

Continued below.
About Fr. Martin’s book

That was a good article. Ed Peters is a good and sound canon law interpreter.

The point about Martin's Jesuit superior approving of the publishing of this book is interesting. Basically Martin thinks because his Jesuit superior approved, his book cannot be foul. The overlooked part is that the Jesuit superior is not at all infallible, and in this case appears to be very fallible. Reminds me about Anthony Wilhelm's catechism 'Christ Among Us', a deeply flawed book that was used in a church I was at in Minneapolis for years. Finally, after years of complaints, it's imprimatur was removed. Peters mentions this in his article. But I lived it. Imprimaturs and Nihil Obstats are only as good as the orthodoxy of the personnel issuing them. In Martin's case, I think we can wonder. Ten years down the pike maybe the Jesuits will be reformed and they will recind permission for this book. In the mean time the damage is being done.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

That was a good article. Ed Peters is a good and sound canon law interpreter.

The point about Martin's Jesuit superior approving of the publishing of this book is interesting. Basically Martin thinks because his Jesuit superior approved, his book cannot be foul. The overlooked part is that the Jesuit superior is not at all infallible, and in this case appears to be very fallible. Reminds me about Anthony Wilhelm's catechism 'Christ Among Us', a deeply flawed book that was used in a church I was at in Minneapolis for years. Finally, after years of complaints, it's imprimatur was removed. Peters mentions this in his article. But I lived it. Imprimaturs and Nihil Obstats are only as good as the orthodoxy of the personnel issuing them. In Martin's case, I think we can wonder. Ten years down the pike maybe the Jesuits will be reformed and they will recind permission for this book. In the mean time the damage is being done.

The end of the article, Ed Peters provided an update and the Superior responded to Peters that both he and theologians of the order reviewed and approved the book.

Many have the mistake of thinking Fr Martin was approving LGBTQ lifestyles in the book.

He was not, and in fact says he holds to Catholic Doctrine.

However, what he does say is that the LGBTQ communities know Catholic teaching on their issue, so he doesn't get into THEIR theology on it.

His goal is to find away to build a bridge for them to come into the Catholic Church, and of course this means accepting Catholic teaching on marriage and moral issues.

Jim

 

[chevyontheriver]

The end of the article, Ed Peters provided an update and the Superior responded to Peters that both he and theologians of the order reviewed and approved the book.

Sure, they approved it. But that approval is very far from an infallible act. That's the point.

Many have the mistake of thinking Fr Martin was approving LGBTQ lifestyles in the book.

He was not, and in fact says he holds to Catholic Doctrine.

However, what he does say is that the LGBTQ communities know Catholic teaching on their issue, so he doesn't get into THEIR theology on it.

His goal is to find away to build a bridge for them to come into the Catholic Church, and of course this means accepting Catholic teaching on marriage and moral issues.

I would hope that is all true. But I wonder.

Just noticed. Fr. James Martin's invitation to speak at Theological College at CUA has been revoked.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Sure, they approved it. But that approval is very far from an infallible act. That's the point.

I would hope that is all true. But I wonder.

Just noticed. Fr. James Martin's invitation to speak at Theological College at CUA has been revoked.

Even books with Imprimatur, are not infallible.

The invitation was revoked because of the pressure conservative's put on the College to cancel his talk.

Unfortunately, they did so and those who protested, along with everyone else will be ignorant to what he's saying.

Censorship by the mobs is what it came down to.

Jim

 

[chevyontheriver]

Even books with Imprimatur, are not infallible.

The invitation was revoked because of the pressure conservative's put on the College to cancel his talk.

Unfortunately, they did so and those who protested, along with everyone else will be ignorant to what he's saying.

Censorship by the mobs is what it came down to.

Jim

I'm sure Georgetown will offer him a big forum as a consolation. Look for that within a few hours. Maybe a day.

I'm not really full of trust in an imprimatur, an imprimi potest, or a nihil obstat from the Jesuits right now. I know a couple of fantastic Jesuits, but I would not automatically trust, and would almost automatically distrust a new imprimatur, imprimi potest, or nihil obstat from a Jesuit superior.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I'm sure Georgetown will offer him a big forum as a consolation. Look for that within a few hours. Maybe a day.

I'm not really full of trust in an imprimatur, an imprimi potest, or a nihil obstat from the Jesuits right now. I know a couple of fantastic Jesuits, but I would not automatically trust, and would almost automatically distrust a new imprimatur, imprimi potest, or nihil obstat from a Jesuit superior.

Even if Georgetown or Boston College offer him a speaking engagement, low-level thinkers will refuse to hear what he has to say, and keep their own ideas and continue to attack him.


Jim

 

[AvilaSurfer]

Even if Georgetown or Boston College offer him a speaking engagement, low-level thinkers will refuse to hear what he has to say, and keep their own ideas and continue to attack him.


Jim

Us low level thinkers are not interested in what he says as long as he keeps promoting SSM. There are plenty of Catholic speakers out there who actually adhere to Catholic doctrine.

 

[chevyontheriver]

low-level thinkers

Thanks for the complement.

 

[Michie]

 

[Michie]

About the roots of the Father James Martin theological college controversy.

From 'Building Bridges' to 'Building a Bridge' -- About the roots of wars over Father James Martin

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Us low level thinkers are not interested in what he says as long as he keeps promoting SSM. There are plenty of Catholic speakers out there who actually adhere to Catholic doctrine.

Thanks for proving my point.

Be content in assuming what Fr Martin is doing in his book without actually knowing from what he says.

Jim

 

[AvilaSurfer]

I've read his statements. It's like he's proposing a new CCC. As far as I'm concerned, he deserves all the criticism he's getting.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I've read his statements. It's like he's proposing a new CCC. As far as I'm concerned, he deserves all the criticism he's getting.

I'd like to see those statements

Jim

 

[MoonlessNight]

Even if Georgetown or Boston College offer him a speaking engagement, low-level thinkers will refuse to hear what he has to say, and keep their own ideas and continue to attack him.


Jim

Have you ever considered that people who don't hold your exact position on everything might not be idiots?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Have you ever considered that people who don't hold your exact position on everything might not be idiots?[/QUOT]

When did I call people here idiots ?

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Bishop McElroy: Attacks on Father James Martin expose a cancer within the U.S. Catholic Church

Father James Martin is a distinguished Jesuit author who has spent his life building bridges within the Catholic Church and between the church and the wider world. He has been particularly effective in bringing the Gospel message to the millennial generation. When we survey the vast gulf that exists between young adults and the church in the United States, it is clear that there could be no more compelling missionary outreach for the future of Catholicism than the terrain that Father Martin has passionately and eloquently pursued over the past two decades. There are few evangelizers who have engaged that terrain with more heart and skill and devotion.

more

Jim

 

[AvilaSurfer]

LOL....Sorry buddy, America Magazine is hardly a source.

 

[Michie]

Something Davidnic posted from Cardinal Sarah here:
In rare WSJ op-ed, Cardinal Sarah says Fr. Martin's LGBT outreach falls short

In rare WSJ op-ed, Cardinal Sarah says Fr. Martin's LGBT outreach falls short

How Catholics Can Welcome LGBT Believers

 

[JimR-OCDS]

LOL....Sorry buddy, America Magazine is hardly a source.

America is an excellent source for sound Catholic teaching.

Sorry you want to kill the messenger and not read the message by the Bishop

Jim