A Faith You Can Touch

[redleghunter]

I think you need to do more than scratch the surface and see what is really there.

I actually dug deep and yet I get responses from you and others which barely come as assertions and quoted propaganda.

Here is not the place for a long dissertation, but let me give you one example of food for thought.

Perhaps respond to the Catholic scholarship I posted. This will be the last time I respond to your drive by's.

 

[Albion]

It does not matter if some Frenchmen, Norman or Saxon had a lisp. Presbyter as used in the NT never meant priest or priestly duties. How the English butchered the word is irrelevant to my original point.

It's irrelevant to your contention, you mean.

If it correctly explains why the presbyter came to be called the priest--called, not replaced by--then that's the answer to the question.

 

[Albion]

There is a word for priest in the NT and it is not presbyter. I made that quite clear several times.

Yes, but it doesn't change anything. Those priests are different from the Christian priest.

I made that quite clear several times.

 

[Vicomte13]

It doesn't seem post apostolic age 'revelation' helped much for the Roman Rite church in stopping the carnage and corruption.

It doesn't seem as though Sola Scriptura stopped the Southern Baptists from lynchings and slave rape either.

Ecclesiology is all grand, but it's useless if people do monstrous evil anyway.

And the PROBLEM is that when Christians do evil of those magnitudes - avidly pursuing Southern-style chattel slavery, burning God's messenger Joan of Arc at the stake, all of the tortures of the Inquisition, and all of the witch burnings of the Lutherans and Scots Presbyterians, the invasions of Ireland - all of it it nullifies the claim of goodness of the Christian Church, and puts Christianity on a par with Islam.

And it does not improve the situation for Christians to dig in by beating their ecclesiological chests either.

The Christian Churches have evil histories. For those WITHIN the Kool-ade circles, those evils do not matter. Muslims never see or acknowledge their own evils either. Everybody apologizes for himself. Very few ever admit: we murdered people, that was wrong, which means that WE CAN BE WRONG in our most deeply held religious beliefs. AND WE HAVE BEEN WRONG.

That should cripple any arrogant Christian. Our churches were all crap at various points. There is no excuse. They made the same choice that Abraham did: faced with what they perceived to be an order to kill an innocent, instead of standing up to God's demand of an evil act and saying "No", they obeyed and thought themselves good for having done so.

God rewarded Abraham for his obedience, because he had indeed asked Abraham to do it.
But God would have rewarded him much more had Abraham PASSED the test, and stood up to God in that moment and told him that no, he would NOT do such evil before God, and challenged God on his deity and real presence for having demanded it!

The same would have been true of Pilate - he failed the test too.
So did Pope Leo, Martin Luther, Calvin, Knox, Cromwell, and the pro-slavery and segregation Southern Baptists. So did the German Church in the 1940s.

Failure after failure after failure, but GOD how Christians are proud of their crappy Churches with their crappy histories. How they fight over nonsense! How they strain out the gnat and swallow the camel.

No wonder the religion is dying.
It has to. As long as we keep this crap up, it's doomed, because it is useless. The things that we debate on Christian Forums are useless. God does not care about these petty things. He cares about people not killing each other, not starving and abusing each other. That's what he cares about - always has.

And Christians would rather burn people alive while talking about whether or not they are really eating God in pieces of bread, and whether or not ---

I can't stand it!

Signing off this thread for good.
Don't reply, I won't see it. I won't answer.

 

[Albion]

It doesn't seem as though Sola Scriptura stopped the Southern Baptists from lynchings and slave rape either.

Ecclesiology is all grand, but it's useless if people do monstrous evil anyway.

So sin negates or cancels out God's word. Interesting theory.

That aside, can we name any church that is free from all such transgressions? No.

 

[Tree of Life]

So sin negates or cancels out God's word. Interesting theory.

That aside, can we name any church that is free from all such transgressions? No.

This is another big problem with Catholic ecclesiology. They seem unable to own this by virtue of their own theology. The Catholic Church, in their own view, is infallible in regards to faith and morals. This doesn't mean that the church lives perfectly, but that it cannot err in regards to doctrine on these matters.

 

[Open Heart]

"Priest" isn't.

Are you choosing to be obtuse? Or just not reading my posts? I realize that folks can't read every post. Priest is an etymological grandchild of presbyteros, which is the Greek.

 

[Open Heart]

Yet the word is Greek.

We're talking etymological descent from Greek to English. Why is that so hard to understand?

 

[Albion]

What you're saying doesn't bear upon the issue at all. That is the problem.

Plus, priest and pronouncing it as "preeest" has been explained several times already, so the best thing might be for you to go back and read the earlier posts.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

I will post this to your provocative propaganda and then i am gone:

Tree of Life,

Which came first the "reformed Christianity" or "Catholicism taught by the early Church Fathers"? Obviously, one is man made way of beliefs and the other founded on Rock by By Christ.

Now would Christ wait 1500 years to reform His Church and do a 180 degree turn, from the Original Church? For Christ to do such a thing would only mean that the gates did prevail after all, over His First Church, which would indicate that Christ could not keep his Promise that we read in: Matthew 16 18And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

1. in order for Jesus Christ to be a High Priest seated at the Right hand side of God His Father, there must be priests under Him / who represent Jesus Christ for us in our day, remember, Jesus Christ did not leave us orphaned. As per Protestants who have not the Priesthood here with them today, wether they know it or not they are orphaned and not having the Sacraments.

Wrong: Nowhere does the NT teach a separate sacerdotal class of believers, corresponding to the Old Testament priesthood, kohen, for which the distinctive Greek word "hiereus" is uniquely used by the Holy Spirit in the NT.

But who never uses that distinctive word for NT church pastors, and instead the words "episkopos" (superintendent or overseer, referring to function), and "presbuteros" (senior, in age, implying maturity, and or position) were used, with again, both referring to the same person in the pastoral office. (Titus 1:5,7; Acts 20:17,28)

Which is contrary to Catholicism, which often calls translates presbuteros as well as hiereus as "priest," since in Catholicism presbyters are considered a distinctive sacerdotal class of believers

Spoiler: "The English word "priest" is a etymological corruption of the Greek

" The English word "priest" is a etymological corruption of the Greek presbuteros"]The English word "priest" is a etymological corruption of the Greek presbuteros, if with uncertainty, being referred to in Old English (around 700 to 1000 AD) as "preostas" or "preost," and finally resulting in the modern English "priest," which is also used for Old Testament kohen, thereby losing the distinction the Holy Spirit provided by never using the distinctive term of hiereus for NT presbuteros, or describing as them as a distinctive sacerdotal class of believers.

R. J. Grigaitis (O.F.S.) (while yet trying to defend the use of "priest"), reveals, "The Greek word for this office is...[hiereus], which can be literally translated into Latin as sacerdos [as for ko^he^n]. First century Christians [actually the Holy Spirit who inspired writers] felt that their special type of hiereus (sacerdos) was so removed from the original that they gave it a new name, presbuteros (presbyter). Unfortunately, sacerdos didn't evolve into an English word, but the word priest [from old English "preost"] took on its definition." (Russell Jonas Grigaitis)

And a Orthodox historian scholar admits that "the word "priesthood" is itself a corruption of the Greek "presbyter." (John Anthony McGuckin, "The Orthodox Church: An Introduction to its History, Doctrine, and Spiritual Culture)

In response to a query on this issue, the web site of International Standard Version (not my preferred translation) states,​

No Greek lexicons or other scholarly sources suggest that "presbyteros" means "priest" instead of "elder". The Greek word is equivalent to the Hebrew ZAQEN, which means "elder", and not priest. You can see the ZAQENIM described in Exodus 18:21-22 using some of the same equivalent Hebrew terms as Paul uses in the GK of 1&2 Timothy and Titus. Note that the ZAQENIM are NOT priests (i.e., from the tribe of Levi) but are rather men of distinctive maturity that qualifies them for ministerial roles among the people.

Therefore the NT equivalent of the ZAQENIM cannot be the Levitical priests. The Greek "presbyteros" (literally, the comparative of the Greek word for "old" and therefore translated as "one who is older") thus describes the character qualities of the "episkopos". The term "elder" would therefore appear to describe the character, while the term "overseer" (for that is the literal rendering of "episkopos") connotes the job description.

To sum up, far from obfuscating the meaning of "presbyteros", our rendering of "elder" most closely associates the original Greek term with its OT counterpart, the ZAQENIM. ...we would also question the fundamental assumption that you bring up in your last observation, i.e., that "the church has always had priests among its ordained clergy". We can find no documentation of that claim. (http://isvbible.com/catacombs/elders.htm)
​

Note also that etymology is the study of the history of words, their origins, and evolving changes in form and meaning. over time, but etymologies are not definitions (examples: "cute" used to mean bow-legged; "bully" originally meant darling or sweetheart; "Nice" originally meant stupid or foolish; "counterfeit" used to mean a legitimate copy; "egregious" originally connoted eminent or admirable). It is an etymological fallacy to hold that the present-day meaning of a word or phrase means it is the same as its original or historical meaning. Since presbyteros incorrectly evolved into priest (and were assigned an imposed unique sacerdotal function) therefore it is erroneously considered to be valid to distinctively use the same distinctive term used for OT priests for NT pastors, despite the Holy Spirit never doing so and the lack of the unique sacerdotal function Catholicism attributes to NT presbyteros.

All believers are called to sacrifice (Rm. 12:1; 15:16; Phil. 2:17; 4:18; Heb. 13:15,16; cf. 9:9) and all constitute the only priesthood (hieráteuma) in the NT church, that of all believers, (1Pt. 2:5,9; Re 1:6; 5:10; 20:6).

But nowhere are NT pastors distinctively titled hiereus, and the idea of the NT presbuteros being a distinctive class titled "hiereus" was a later development, and Catholicism attempts to justify using the same distinctive word for both OT "ko^he^n" and NT presbuteros via an imposed functional equivalence, supposing NT presbuteros engaged in a unique sacrificial ministry as their primary function. Yet neither presbuteros or episkopos are described as having any unique sacrificial function, and hiereus (as archiereus=chief priests) is used in distinction to elders in such places as Lk. 22:66; Acts 22:5.

Catholic writer Greg Dues in "Catholic Customs & Traditions, a popular guide," states, "Priesthood as we know it in the Catholic church was unheard of during the first generation of Christianity, because at that time priesthood was still associated with animal sacrifices in both the Jewish and pagan religions."

"When the Eucharist came to be regarded as a sacrifice [after Rome's theology], the role of the bishop took on a priestly dimension. By the third century bishops were considered priests. Presbyters or elders sometimes substituted for the bishop at the Eucharist. By the end of the third century people all over were using the title 'priest' (hierus in Greek and sacerdos in Latin) for whoever presided at the Eucharist." (Catholic Customs & Traditions)

2. Catholicism has the Unbloody Sacrifice Which is the Eucharist, which Our Lord stated that there is no life in a person, if you do not Eat and Drink His Body and Blood. Catholics LIVE out loud the Scriptures word for word at Mass. where Protestants only read the Scriptures which is Good but not enough.

To be consistent then you must believe that all your disagree with you regarding the Cath "Real Presence" and thus do not receive it have no spiritual life in them, and that this is the means preached in order to obtain this essential life in the only wholly inspired and substantive record of what the NT church believed (including how they understood the gospels), as revealed in Acts thru Revelation, which Catholicism stands in the most manifest contrast to.
To save typing, by the grace of God:
Table of Contents

Introduction
1. Catholic teaching on the Eucharist
2. Metaphorical versus literal language
3. Supper accounts and John 6: Conformity to Scripture, and consequences of the literalistic interpretation.
4. 1Cor. 10,11
5. The Lord's Supper in the record and descriptions of the New Testament church
6. Purely literal versus the contrived Catholic interpretation
7. The nature of the Catholic metaphysical explanation
8. The Lord's Supper is not a sacrifice for sins
9. Absence of the sacerdotal Eucharistic priesthood
10. Metaphorical view of Jn. 6 is not new.
11. Endocannibalism
12. Conclusion​

3. The Center piece of Christianity is the Eucharist, which is no longer Bread, which is no longer Wine but Jesus Christ in the Flesh, which can only be done by the Priesthood of Christ who is the High Priest.

You will never even see presbuteros described as conducting the Lord's supper in the only wholly inspired record of what the NT church believed (Acts - Revelation, including how they understood the gospels) of what the church did and how they understood the gospels. Though I am sure they did conduct this, yet they are not seen or charged with this in the epistles as being a unique and or primary function, nor preaching the Lord's supper as the means of regeneration, that of obtaining spiritual life.

Which is in contrast to presbuteros/episkopeos (same persons) being charged with and exampled as preaching the word as their primary active function, (2Tim. 4:2) feeding the flock thereby. (Acts 20:28) with believing the gospel being the means of regeneration, of obtaining spiritual life (Acts 10:43; 15:7-9; Eph. 1:13) and being nourished (1Tim. 4:6) and built up (Acts 20:32) for the word, is what is called spiritual food, "milk" (1Co. 3:22; 1Pt. 1:22) and "meat," (Heb. 5:12-14)

4. The Lord knows we are audible people, we need to hear that we are Forgiven of our sins or that we may have our sins Retained, such as Jesus Christ states in: John 20:22When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

​

Wrong. Rather than taking a text in isolation as Catholics often must do, and which is the only way they can attempt to make their tradition (of the need to normally confess sins to a Cath priest in order to obtain forgiveness) here appear Scriptural, you needed to examine issue in the light of the rest of Scripture, and in particular the Scriptural record of the NT church (Acts onward, which is interpretive of the gospels).

In so doing, we can see,

1. Nowhere are NT pastors distinctively called by the distinctive word for a distinctive separate sacerdotal class of believers, ("hiereus" in Greek, and "priests" in English), to whom souls regularly came to obtain forgiveness.

Instead, all believers are called to sacrifice (Rm. 12:1; 15:16; Phil. 2:17; 4:18; Heb. 13:15,16; cf. 9:9) and all constitute the only priesthood (hieráteuma) in the NT church, that of all believers, (1Pt. 2:5,9; Re 1:6; 5:10; 20:6).

2. Nowhere are NT believers shown regularly confessing sins to their pastors, or ever commanded to do so. Instead, the only exhortation or command to confess sins is to each other in general.

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. (James 5:16)

Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit. Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. (James 5:17-20)

Here we see an example of spiritual binding and loosing, in which the heavens were bound from providing rain, and then loosed to do so, whereby believers of like fervent holy faith are encouraged as able to obtain such binding and loosing in prayer.

However, in the case of an infirm man the intercession of NT pastors (presbuteros) can obtain deliverance of chastisement, as indicated by James 5:14,15, as can the intercession of believers of fervent holy faith, but pastors as particularly expected to be so.

Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. (James 5:13-15)

Yet nowhere is the infirm man required to confess his sin, and which in this case is likewise one he is ignorant of, but chastened for. (cf. Mark 2:1-11) Nor is this an example of the Catholic "Last Rites," as healing is what is promised here, while the Catholic Last Rites is normatively a precursor of death.

And they come unto him, bringing one sick of the palsy, which was borne of four. And when they could not come nigh unto him for the press, they uncovered the roof where he was: and when they had broken it up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay. When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only? And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts? Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house. And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion. (Mark 2:3-12)

One can be chastised for unconfessed sins he is not aware of, and mercy can even be requested for those who sinned in ignorance, (Lk. 23:34; Acts 7:60) and here we see healing and forgiveness being treated as one thing, for the latter obtained the former. And which was in response to the intercession of the man's friends, and is corespondent to James 5.

In both cases it seems that the afflicted were not aware of the sins that there were under chastisement for, and in neither case was confession of such required, and in both cases intercession obtained deliverance without sacerdotal clergy being required.

3. Nowhere does any NT pastor teach believers that they need to be confessing their sins to them in particular in order to obtain forgiveness.

Instead, Scripture simply states that,

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9)

And when Peter charged Simon Magnus with sin, he told him to pray to God himself if perhaps he might be forgiven. However, this does not mean that intercession for mercy cannot be asked of pastors or believers in general, as was also the case here.

Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity. Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me. (Acts 8:22-24)

4. As seen in James 5:16-18, the power of binding and loosing are is not restricted to clergy, but formal judicial actions are executed under leadership, not autocratically but in union with all the church.

But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. (Matthew 18:16-18)

While judicial actions are carried out by the whole church under leadership, that the power to bind and loose is not restricted to clergy is also evident by what follows Matthew 18:16-18, as it applies to two or three are gathered together in the Lord's name.

Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. (Matthew 18:19-20)

The formal corporate judicial binding and loosing is seen in action in 1 Corinthians 5:3-5:

For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Likewise is the corporate nature of forgiveness by the body that was harmed by public sin:

To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ; Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices. (2 Corinthians 2:10-11)

5. Leadership does act in the person of Christ in such judicial and disciplinary cases (which flows from the OT: Dt. 17:8-13), together with the church, while Spirit-filled holy men such as the apostles can also declare one to be bound in sin, as seen before in Acts 8:20-23, and in Acts 5:1-10 (cf. Acts 13:6-12; 1Co. 4:21) be instruments of Divine judgment.

Yet this is not an endowment of office as if anyone in that office can execute such, but such can be the power of Spirit-filled holy men who are to occupy that office, while the power of binding and loosing in general is provided for all Spirit-filled holy believers.

And since there simply is no Catholic priesthood in the NT church, no separate sacerdotal class of believers distinctively called by the distinctive name for such, whose primary active function is that of offering the Catholic Eucharist as an offering for sin, to be consumed in order to obtain spiritual and eternal life , then any spiritual power that might belong to the office of NT presbuteros does not apply to them .

6. Outside of the above, nowhere is clerical intercession or that of anyone required for forgiveness, but the promise that "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9) means that forgiveness does not require regular confession to clergy, let alione Catholic priests.

It is Truth that that Catholicism LIVES out the Gospels where as the Reformed Only Read the Gospels and pick and Choose what they like.

Nonsense: Those who most strongly hold Scripture as the accurate authoritative testify to being the most committed, active, and most unified in basic beliefs, much in contrast to those overall whom Rome considers members in life and in death.

 

[redleghunter]

We're talking etymological descent from Greek to English. Why is that so hard to understand?

Not hard to understand

My point was there were no priestly offices in the NT church.

 

[Open Heart]

Not hard to understand

My point was there were no priestly offices in the NT church.

And your idea does NOT take into consideration the fact that the English word "priest" comes from the Greek word "presbyteros." Nor do you take into consideration that in Catholicism, priest and presbyteros are interchangeable.

 

[redleghunter]

What you're saying doesn't bear upon the issue at all. That is the problem.

Plus, priest and pronouncing it as "preeest" has been explained several times already, so the best thing might be for you to go back and read the earlier posts.

I have. There seems to be some serious misunderstandings afoot.

There is no NT church office of priest and preysbeter is not priest in the NT.

I don't give a hill of beans how the Greek word was misused by a lisping Saxon.

 

[redleghunter]

And your idea does NOT take into consideration the fact that the English word "priest" comes from the Greek word "presbyteros." Nor do you take into consideration that in Catholicism, priest and presbyteros are interchangeable.

English has nothing to do with the Greek meaning. How many times must I post this?

 

[Albion]

I have. There seems to be some serious misunderstandings afoot.

I was addressing Open Heart in that reply, so that would be one such misunderstanding.

There is no NT church office of priest and preysbeter is not priest in the NT.

The presbyter came to be called a priest in the Christian church, although that use of the word doesn't mean that any connection to the OT priests was intended. This is the main point that seems constantly to be misunderstood.

I don't give a hill of beans how the Greek word was misused by a lisping Saxon.

It looks very much as though you actually do. But if not, there is no reason for contesting what's already been explained about the use of the word priest in English, and everyone can return to the topic of the thread.

 

[redleghunter]

although that use of the word doesn't mean that any connection to the OT priests was intended. This is the main point that seems constantly to be misunderstood.

No one made the OT claim. I've been very clear on this matter.

 

[Albion]

No one made the OT claim. I've been very clear on this matter.

Hmm. The following would seem to say otherwise---

Doctrinal developments devoid of NT attestation.
Some Catholic sources:
**Catholic writer Greg Dues in "Catholic Customs & Traditions, a popular guide," states, "Priesthood as we know it in the Catholic church was unheard of during the first generation of Christianity, because at that time priesthood was still associated with animal sacrifices in both the Jewish and pagan religions."

The OT provided us the types and shadows of what would be fulfilled in Jesus Christ. Why would we want to create more types and shadows when the New Covenant does not require them.

**Also posted by PeaceByJesus

 

[redleghunter]

Hmm. The following would seem to say otherwise---



**Also posted by PeaceByJesus

Indeed there was no Christian priesthood as a separate sacerdotal class in the NT church.

 

[Open Heart]

English has nothing to do with the Greek meaning. How many times must I post this?

And you are factually wrong on two grounds.

1. In the Eastern Orthodox Churches and the Catholic Church, the word priest and the word presbyter are interchangable: they both refer to the same ordained office.

2. Etymologically there is a direct link.
priest (n.)
Old English preost probably shortened from the older Germanic form represented by Old Saxon and Old High German prestar, Old Frisian prestere, all from Vulgar Latin *prester "priest," from Late Latin presbyter "presbyter, elder," from Greek presbyteros.
priest | Origin and meaning of priest by Online Etymology Dictionary







An alternative theory (to account for the -eo- of the Old English word) makes it cognate with Old High German priast, prest, from Vulgar Latin *prevost "one put over others," from Latin praepositus "person placed in charge," from past participle of praeponere (see provost). In Old Testament sense, a translation of Hebrew kohen, Greek hiereus, Latin sacerdos.



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[redleghunter]

And you are factually wrong on two grounds.

1. In the Eastern Orthodox Churches and the Catholic Church, the word priest and the word presbyter are interchangable: they both refer to the same ordained office.

2. Etymologically there is a direct link.
priest (n.)
Old English preost probably shortened from the older Germanic form represented by Old Saxon and Old High German prestar, Old Frisian prestere, all from Vulgar Latin *prester "priest," from Late Latin presbyter "presbyter, elder," from Greek presbyteros.
priest | Origin and meaning of priest by Online Etymology Dictionary







An alternative theory (to account for the -eo- of the Old English word) makes it cognate with Old High German priast, prest, from Vulgar Latin *prevost "one put over others," from Latin praepositus "person placed in charge," from past participle of praeponere (see provost). In Old Testament sense, a translation of Hebrew kohen, Greek hiereus, Latin sacerdos.



Related Entries

• 
  
  • *per-
  
  
  
  • presbyterian
  
  
  
  • prester john
  
  
  
  • priestcraft
  
  
  
  • priestess
  
  
  
  • priesthood
  
  
  
  • priestly
  
  
  
  • provost

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prickly

pride

prideful

prier

priest

priestcraft

priestess

priesthood

priestly

prig

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© 2001-2018 Douglas Harper

Are you under the impression the New Testament was originally written in Latin, Germanic or old English?

Let me be clear once more so we are not talking past each other:

1. presbuteros does not equal "priest" in the NT KOINE Greek.

2. The Koine Greek for priest in the New Testament is hiereus. Nowhere in the New Testament is there an office of priest or hiereus in the Church.

It matters not how later languages developed Greek words into something they were not. If your point was presbuteros was later developed into priest and such a later development of a priesthood.

In Latin the word for priest is "sacerdos." Yet I notice even the Latin Vulgate does not use "sacerdos" where presbuteros is used.

Compare Acts 14:23:

χειροτονήσαντες δὲ αὐτοῖς κατ’ ἐκκλησίαν πρεσβυτέρους προσευξάμενοι μετὰ νηστειῶν παρέθεντο αὐτοὺς τῷ κυρίῳ εἰς ὃν πεπιστεύκεισαν

and having appointed to them by vote elders in every assembly, having prayed with fastings, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

et cum constituissent illis per singulas ecclesias presbyteros et orassent cum ieiunationibus commendaverunt eos Domino in quem crediderunt


We can compare where the Latin Vulgate does use "priest."

Acts 23:14

οἵτινες προσελθόντες τοῖς ἀρχιερεῦσιν καὶ τοῖς πρεσβυτέροις εἶπαν ἀναθέματι ἀνεθεματίσαμεν ἑαυτοὺς μηδενὸς γεύσασθαι ἕως οὗ ἀποκτείνωμεν τὸν Παῦλον

who having come near to the chief priests and to the elders said, 'With an anathema we did anathematize ourselves -- to taste nothing till we have killed Paul;

qui accesserunt ad principes sacerdotum et seniores et dixerunt devotione devovimus nos nihil gustaturos donec occidamus Paulum

As you can see in the New Testament there is a distinction in the Koine Greek between priest and presbyteros (elder).