A discussion topic for Christian apologists: the morality of God.

[Austin998877]

I'm not saying that this is my definite opinion, but it's a question I have. God chose to create men knowing most would go to hell before God created them. Why is it more loving for God to create people knowing beforehand that most would go to hell, instead of not creating them at all? No offence or disrespect meant.

 

[Radrook]

I'm not saying that this is my definite opinion, but it's a question I have. God chose to create men knowing most would go to hell before God created them. Why is it more loving for God to create people knowing beforehand that most would go to hell, instead of not creating them at all? No offence or disrespect meant.

You believe that God created a torture chamber called hell?

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

This is a hard one to answer for me. Because there are lots of questions one could ask, like why didn't He start over when Eve bit the apple. Or what is our main purpose of being created. We have free will, thus it was Eves choice to bite the apple. And our main purpose of being is to worship God. Like a father, not like some fake god we see in movies. I see Him as a father indeed. Being able to live forever with a new, sin free body sounds wonderful.

Now in the end I tell people "I don't care about some of the questions because Hes God. He says what and how things are. I am not going to debate Him since He created everything and can tell us how He wants things. Who am I to argue with Him? I mean after all He sent His Son to earth to die for our sins so we could go to heaven and be free. That is a loving God. I won't question Him!".

 

[CrystalDragon]

This is a hard one to answer for me. Because there are lots of questions one could ask, like why didn't He start over when Eve bit the apple. Or what is our main purpose of being created. We have free will, thus it was Eves choice to bite the apple. And our main purpose of being is to worship God. Like a father, not like some fake god we see in movies. I see Him as a father indeed. Being able to live forever with a new, sin free body sounds wonderful.

Now in the end I tell people "I don't care about some of the questions because Hes God. He says what and how things are. I am not going to debate Him since He created everything and can tell us how He wants things. Who am I to argue with Him? I mean after all He sent His Son to earth to die for our sins so we could go to heaven and be free. That is a loving God. I won't question Him!".

I wish I could go back to the times where I felt like you, but if I tried to insist that knowing what I know about the Bible, the centuries-long divisions on doctrine, and the morality a good portion of the Bible portrays, I'd be being dishonest with myself.

 

[Austin998877]

You believe that God created a torture chamber called hell?

I don't know what to believe. It seems like it could be possible. Christianity is suspiciously popular, and it is the only religion that seems possible to me. The way I see it either God made hell and heaven, and following the Bible is how you'd get to heaven, or the Bible's made up.

 

[CrystalDragon]

I don't know what to believe. It seems like it could be possible. Christianity is suspiciously popular, and it is the only religion that seems possible to me. The way I see it either God made hell and heaven, and following the Bible is how you'd get to heaven, or the Bible's made up.

There are some pretty barbaric things in the Old Testament- if you have to follow all of the Bible, then killing unbelievers and keeping slaves are fine.

 

[Austin998877]

[...]

Thanks for your honest response.

 

[Austin998877]

There are some pretty barbaric things in the Old Testament- if you have to follow all of the Bible, then killing unbelievers and keeping slaves are fine.

In response to your first post towards NothingIsImpossible, I feel the same, it's quite hard for me to believe at the moment though I can still find ways to see that the Bible could be true. This is unfortunate, I want to pick a side already.

But in response to your second post, the Bible says we are no longer under the old covenant law, but the new one that Christ gave. So you'd have to follow everything Christ taught and the New Testament in general, not the old laws, from my current understanding. Though you would have to accept that the old covenant was once a real thing.

 

[CrystalDragon]

Thanks for your honest response.

I feel like I should be about my thoughts and feelings on the Bible, even if some have a "It's terrible for you to doubt things, repent or burn!" response.

 

[CrystalDragon]

In response to your first post towards NothingIsImpossible, I feel the same, it's quite hard for me to believe at the moment though I can still find ways to see that the Bible could be true. This is unfortunate, I want to pick a side already.

But in response to your second post, the Bible says we are no longer under the old covenant law, but the new one that Christ gave. So you'd have to follow everything Christ taught, including the apostles and the New Testament in general, not the old laws, from my current understanding. Though you would have to accept that the old covenant was once a real thing.

Plus, not all the Old Covenant is passed away because 1. We still have the 10 Commandments, 2. Jesus didn't condemn slavery, and 3. Jesus said not a word of the Law shall pass away.

 

[Austin998877]

I feel like I should be about my thoughts and feelings on the Bible, even if some have a "It's terrible for you to doubt things, repent or burn!" response.

I honestly meant that towards NothingIsImpossible, but thanks for your honest response too.

 

[Austin998877]

Plus, not all the Old CovenantGPlus, not all the Old Covenant is passed away because 1. We still have the 10 Commandments, 2. Jesus didn't condemn slavery, and 3. Jesus said not a word of the Law shall pass away.

When Jesus said "I have not come to abolish the law but fulfill it, [no word of the law shall pass away]" presumably He was speaking of the new covenant law, which fulfills and changes the old one. I think Paul talks about this more in depth.

Regarding slavery, it is odd that Jesus said "Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master" in the KJV but other translations say teacher. But Paul does say "Masters, be kind to your slaves". I'd have to look in the Hebrew to see if it's a true contradiction. But if Jesus wasn't saying "do not own slaves" in that passage, we'd assume that under the new law, looking at what Paul said, you'd treat them fairly and kindly as if it were any other job.

 

[Austin998877]

I found on the internet someone explained this using evidence from the Bible. It says basically in Romans that God made the people who go to hell to show His wrath and power, and it is unwise to question how God chose to make His creation. Believe in Jesus and keep His commandments and you'll be saved. Any thoughts?

 

[redleghunter]

Is this a formal debate request? That is the purpose of the thread...not a discussion thread.

 

[Cuddles333]

This debate proposal might end up on the subject of God's [Middle Knowledge] but in my study I have found that the Deity seen by some in death and near-death experiences, was going to remove the universe when the Godhead came to see the creation that Lucifer and his helpers implemented. It was then that the Deity in the middle, offered to save us. Since then, like they had from the beginning of the creation, they have chosen not to remember the sins of those who come to the Son.

 

[_-iconoclast-_]

I'm not saying that this is my definite opinion, but it's a question I have. God chose to create men knowing most would go to hell before God created them. Why is it more loving for God to create people knowing beforehand that most would go to hell, instead of not creating them at all? No offence or disrespect meant.

Hello and thank you for your honesty and politeness.

What you must first understand.

God is planting a harvest. God is looking for the creme de la creme. This thing called life is a test.

If you wanted food to eat - you harvest . You sow many and many seeds. Some dont germinate, some die when hit by the sun, some dont get enough water, some grow but get over shadowed and some plants dont produce - just to name a few.

The farmer sowed many and many seeds because he wanted a good sized crop. He knows some wont make it but he knows many will. The farmer would prefer 100% yield but it doesnt work that way - free choice/will. God is not a puppet master or else testing would be pointless.

One could look at a job interview. Is it wrong to interview 20 ppl for 1 job when you know 19 wont make it?

The meaning of life = God has a plan and we are involved. After the second coming will come the new Jerusalem.

For those who have never heard the word of God, they will be judged by their own actions and their intentions behind them. Anybody whether he believes in God or not is capable of doing good.

You cannot buy salvation wirh good works, salvation is by faith but doing good is better than to do evil. Jesus preached to the dead during the 3 days before resurrection, these ppl born before Jesus' time were given a choice.

Please excuse the short and blunt version. Subject is big.


Thanks for the questions and keep them coming.

God bless you through Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit