A church whose pastor plagiarizes sermons

[Mike Olson 77]

Imagine that the congregation of your church just learned that the pastor has been plagiarizing other people's sermons found in books or online. The number of sermons he plagiarized is over 50 over last five years. The actual number of the plagiarized sermons is yet to investigate. By the way, the pastor has no intention to resign and the elder board has no intention to fire him.

What would you do? Would you stay in or leave the church? Why?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Imagine that the congregation of your church just learned that the pastor has been plagiarizing other people's sermons found in books or online. The number of sermons he plagiarized is over 50 over last five years. The actual number of the plagiarized sermons is yet to investigate. By the way, the pastor has no intention to resign and the elder board has no intention to fire him.

What would you do? Would you stay or leave the church? Why?

They still haven't fired him?!

 

[HereIStand]

To some degree, a sermon is a collective effort, based on careful thought and study of others. Yet, borrowing the majority of another's sermon without giving any credit, can't stand. The pastor should face discipline. If this didn't happen, and the pastor didn't at least apologize, then I might consider other church options.

That said, too much emphasis is placed on originality in sermons. There is undue pressure for the pastor to dazzle the congregation with profundities. Not enough emphasis is placed on conveying a message with clarity.

 

[Cturtle]

Imagine that the congregation of your church just learned that the pastor has been plagiarizing other people's sermons found in books or online. The number of sermons he plagiarized is over 50 over last five years. The actual number of the plagiarized sermons is yet to investigate. By the way, the pastor has no intention to resign and the elder board has no intention to fire him.

What would you do? Would you stay or leave the church? Why?

I would be praying a lot for this man. And try to find ways to encourage him to really search the Holy Spirit. Only prayers prayed in faith according to the Word can change the situation for the betterment of everyone

Blessings

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

To some degree, a sermon is a collective effort

No one is totally original. we all plagiarize. My main concern is, were they good sermons? If so, thanks for sharing!

 

[Norbert L]

Imagine that the congregation of your church just learned that the pastor has been plagiarizing other people's sermons found in books or online. The number of sermons he plagiarized is over 50 over last five years. The actual number of the plagiarized sermons is yet to investigate. By the way, the pastor has no intention to resign and the elder board has no intention to fire him.

What would you do? Would you stay or leave the church? Why?

This reminds me of a story I heard about an out of work pastor looking for a congregation. When the board looking for a pastor interviewed him they asked if he knows their core beliefs and be able to give sermons on their topics. To which he responded, "I can preach whatever you want me to".

When it comes to change, I think you should consider the expression about the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. That side will have its' own set of weeds. I'm of the opinion that leaving because of this, is leaving because of a man and not his sermons.

What also strikes me is about friendship or lack thereof with other Christians in that congregation. It's not so easy to leave and give up close fellowship with others because of this situation. Unless one lacks these kind of bonds within the church. You may want to consider looking into your own mirror as well.

 

[PloverWing]

The pastor can't change what he's done in the past, but he can choose to do differently in the future. Does he intend to start crediting his sources properly for his future sermons?

 

[Adstar]

Imagine that the congregation of your church just learned that the pastor has been plagiarizing other people's sermons found in books or online. The number of sermons he plagiarized is over 50 over last five years. The actual number of the plagiarized sermons is yet to investigate. By the way, the pastor has no intention to resign and the elder board has no intention to fire him.

What would you do? Would you stay or leave the church? Why?

Lets get back to basics...

If a pastor is giving the message of God then is it his message or is it Gods message ???

Am i as a Christiana plagiarizer of the Bible by saying i believe Jesus died on a cross???

If a person has the ""legal Rights" to a sermon then it is His creation.... His thoughts... And if His sermon is His creation/ His thoughts then can it be from God? Surely if a Pastor is inspired by God to write a good sermon then the pastor has no real rights of ownership to Gods Word...

 

[SPF]

If the Pastor was hiding the fact that he was using other peoples' sermons and intentionally passing them off as his own, then there is actually a much deeper issue here. I would want to know why the Pastor felt that it was appropriate to do that. We are dealing with dishonesty, deceit, certainly a lack of humility which is pride. I would suggest that this man is certainly not in a position to shepherd others as he has a lot of deep rooted sin that he needs to deal with.

Though to be honest, I would actually be MORE concerned with the elder board viewing this as acceptable. It's absolutely not acceptable and they should be very concerned with the man that they let spiritually guide their church body.

 

[dgiharris]

I find it interesting that this could be a problem.

If we are tasked with spreading the word of God, does it matter if we plagiarize?

I guess as human beings, when we come up with something on our own we tend to think that we own that something. But does that apply to the word of God when it is our mission to spread the word? If I come up with a clever parable and analogy and story that communicates a particular passage from the bible do I know own that story? And should I be angry if someone else takes that story and passes it off as their own?

Then there is the simple matter of honesty and courtesy. I've seen plenty of sermons where the preacher gives credit to another preacher so it seems so strange to me that one pastor would not and would actually pass something off as his own...

hmmm.....

this is an interesting thought experiment because it is something that should never really happen.

I'd be curious as to the actual extent of the plagiarism. Are we talking literally word for word, or are we talking general themes and rewording a story???

 

[Phil 1:21]

Plagiarism, by definition, is theft of intellectual property. The Bible is pretty clear on whether or not we are to steal. I have no problem with a pastor who chooses to present someone else's sermon with the proper credit being given. But to present someone else's work as you own is flat out wrong and calls into question the sincerity of his testimony.

 

[Mike Olson 77]

They still haven't fired him?!

Very unfortunately, seven out of ten elders want to give him one more chance. But the previous elders did the same five years ago. The pastor, however, ignoring the generosity, has kept plagiarizing sermons.

The issue is that the elders blindly respect the pastor with a logic that David didn't punish King Saul anointed by God. So, no matter what evil the pastor commits, his job is secured.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Very unfortunately, seven out of ten elders want to give him one more chance. But the previous elders did the same five years ago. The pastor, however, ignoring the generosity, has kept plagiarizing sermons.

The issue is that the elders blindly respect the pastor with a logic that David didn't punish King Saul anointed by God. So, no matter what evil the pastor commits, his job is secured.

Reminds me of this quote

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.

~ Lucius Annaeus Seneca

I'm sure the pastor in this scenario finds the elders' religious conviction very useful.

 

[Cearbhall]

What would you do? Would you stay in or leave the church? Why?

Is that not what most preachers do? I always assumed this was how our priests got the majority of their homilies, especially since the readings in the Catholic mass are the same everywhere, so it's easy to find a homily for any given weekend.

I'm not sure if any laws apply to things that are read during a religious service, but I never personally had a problem with it. I would much rather they spend the rest of the week serving the church community rather than sitting in their offices writing.

 

[Halbhh]

Imagine that the congregation of your church just learned that the pastor has been plagiarizing other people's sermons found in books or online. The number of sermons he plagiarized is over 50 over last five years. The actual number of the plagiarized sermons is yet to investigate. By the way, the pastor has no intention to resign and the elder board has no intention to fire him.

What would you do? Would you stay in or leave the church? Why?

It's truth that we want to be preached. Unchanging truth, the same as it was 100, 300, and 500 years ago.

So, at the very minimum, a pastor should be saying just what other pastors have said, in essence.

Sure, we want him to tell us where he got other wordings from, because that is the American way, and being American, I prefer to know what I'm hearing as to the source. But, either way, I still need to carefully consider whether the message aligns with scripture.

And....

Were the sermons effective and powerful to help people find and stay in Christ?

Do you see the fruits of the spirit in the church?

That's what does matter.

But, there are 2 potential problems that could happen.
1) Would the pastor himself like his own wordings when used to be used with attribution?
2) The real reason for attribution is to prevent us from thinking that wording is Gospel!
E.g. -- I want attribution in that this is merely my wording, me, a mortal, so much less than His Words, by far, and don't mistake my mere wording for His!

 

[frienden thalord]

I would do a back flip for joy if the semons were Truth.
My problem aint in semons copied. Its in the sermons I hear . they reak of lies.
and false comforts and cares and pleasures in life.
I hope the man at least copied true sermons. he gets an a plus just for truth
lest it was the same false sermons I hear over , wait heard over and over again.
heard as in past tense. I had to turn tbn and the tv off , they was preaching falshoods.
But its good to hear truth. Like our brother Cturtle has a real good post we should read and enjoy.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Very unfortunately, seven out of ten elders want to give him one more chance. But the previous elders did the same five years ago. The pastor, however, ignoring the generosity, has kept plagiarizing sermons.

The issue is that the elders blindly respect the pastor with a logic that David didn't punish King Saul anointed by God. So, no matter what evil the pastor commits, his job is secured.

Elders in a every Presbyterian church I've known have equal authority.

Is this an Asian church? If so, is there possibly some culture mixing with doctrine on this matter?

 

[Phil 1:21]

Very unfortunately, seven out of ten elders want to give him one more chance. But the previous elders did the same five years ago. The pastor, however, ignoring the generosity, has kept plagiarizing sermons.

The issue is that the elders blindly respect the pastor with a logic that David didn't punish King Saul anointed by God. So, no matter what evil the pastor commits, his job is secured.

It sounds like what you have is a church centered around a pastor instead of the Word.

 

[Motherofkittens]

It isn't ideal and he should apologize. But I wouldn't leave the church over it.

 

[frienden thalord]

It isn't ideal and he should apologize. But I wouldn't leave the church over it.

Hey , mother of kittens. Something seems off about that kitten your holding.
Sorry, I just thought it was funny.