A Church for the poor

[Hermit76]

It seems to me that Orthodoxy is a church of the common people in Eastern Europe. However, here in the USA, it seems to be a church of the academic, the rich, and so on. I know that there are exceptions, and that there are some poor or middle class converts (me). Am I wrong in my general observation or am I looking in the wrong places? Feel free to discuss.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

There are very few churches of any type in America that are "for the poor" unfortunately. A lot of churches, if not the vast majority, ensure their faithful tithe and tithe some more and those who don't get disciplined in whatever appropriate ways.

I have seen it in more than one church across multiple denominations.

 

[Hermit76]

There are very few churches of any type in America that are "for the poor" unfortunately. A lot of churches, if not the vast majority, ensure their faithful tithe and tithe some more and those who don't get disciplined in whatever appropriate ways.

I have seen it in more than one church across multiple denominations.

Well, the poor have created their own churches here in the US; Pentecostalism and Revivalism come to mind.

 

[All4Christ]

It seems to me that Orthodoxy is a church of the common people in Eastern Europe. However, here in the USA, it seems to be a church of the academic, the rich, and so on. I know that there are exceptions, and that there are some poor or middle class converts (me). Am I wrong in my general observation or am I looking in the wrong places? Feel free to discuss.

I definitely haven't seen the rich part in our parish. We are an even mix of poor, middle class and upper middle class, though I don't know of anyone in our parish who is rich.

Academics? Maybe that's what brought them into the Church, but we work towards accepting mystery. Compared to the Western Church, we have much less scholastic emphasis. However, everyone in my parish is well educated in our faith and often faith of others.

 

[FenderTL5]

I could be wrong;
my perception of our parish is that there are folk from almost all demographics.

Wealthy, poor, in-between, immigrants and converts.. many shades of skin colors and at least 12 languages represented in the Paschal greeting.
The diversity and at the same time connectedness was obvious to me in my early visits to the church.

 

[Lukaris]

I only know the roots of our local Antiochian church in Pennsylvania. These roots are of poor Syrian immigrants in the late 19th c. Most of them rose from poverty to solid middle class stature by the 1950s. While our parish may retain a veneer of the past American dream, it must meet future challenges to evangelize,bear fruit, & remain solvent.

Many individuals have been productive over the years in our parish, others less so.

 

[ArmyMatt]

not in my perception, academics and wealth just have value in America, so they have a louder voice in some circles. but I have met folks of all levels of wealth and education. Orthodoxy in America, for good or for worse, looks American

 

[gzt]

I think it really depends where you are and what's going on. I do think it's the case that in some areas where you have a predominantly convert church it might tend to be middle class white folks that convert. In rust belt towns, you may have more of a Deerhunter vibe.

 

[All4Christ]

I think it really depends where you are and what's going on. I do think it's the case that in some areas where you have a predominantly convert church it might tend to be middle class white folks that convert. In rust belt towns, you may have more of a Deerhunter vibe.

Coal towns in Pennsylvania (perhaps all the East Coast?) - especially those that had a high population of Eastern European immigrants - often have a strong Orthodox presence. They too tend to be lower income. I think the demographics of the region definitely influence the demographics of the church.

 

[E.C.]

Go to the Eastern PA Diocese of the OCA. There's a lot of poor parishes there.

There are parishes that do help the poor. St. Lawrence in Felton, CA collects food for the poor in the community. All-Merciful Saviour Monastery on Vashon Island, WA encourages pilgrims to bring food which the monks would take to the local food banks. When I was going to the Greek parish of St. Nicholas in Virginia Beach, VA they always collected food for the local food banks as there were many to choose from.

I do agree that Orthodoxy in America can do more, or at least be better organized to help the poor. When I was Roman Catholic there were five Catholic schools, one Catholic run food bank and a dozen churches. We collected food at the schools and would give it to the food bank. I wish the Orthodox in this country would organize better to help the poor.

 

[ArmyMatt]

most parishes that I have been to have some organization to help the poor, be it food drives, soup kitchens, etc.

 

[GregConstantine]

most parishes that I have been to have some organization to help the poor, be it food drives, soup kitchens, etc.

There is organization, but it's inconsistent, haphazard, comes and goes in bursts and busts.

Some good news; I just read that FOCUS has a new executive director. I hope this means that at least for Baltimore, they'll have a FOCUS chapter for that city. For too long, some personal squabble between the former director of FOCUS and IOCC caused FOCUS not to have a presence in Baltimore. Hopefully things will change with this new director.

That notwithstanding, FOCUS has been an great example of the Church reaching out to the poor.

 

[ArmyMatt]

There is organization, but it's inconsistent, haphazard, comes and goes in bursts and busts.

Some good news; I just read that FOCUS has a new executive director. I hope this means that at least for Baltimore, they'll have a FOCUS chapter for that city. For too long, some personal squabble between the former director of FOCUS and IOCC caused FOCUS not to have a presence in Baltimore. Hopefully things will change with this new director.

That notwithstanding, FOCUS has been an great example of the Church reaching out to the poor.

FOCUS made a good choice, I hope they can reach out more to areas they have not been as present.

 

[anna ~ grace]

Would you guys say that in general, over all, a person is more likely to *convert to* Orthodoxy in the West who is from an affluent, academic, well educated, or learned back ground, as opposed to a lower-income, working class, or less educated (e.g. no college or maybe some high school) back ground?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Would you guys say that in general, over all, a person is more likely to *convert to* Orthodoxy in the West who is from an affluent, academic, well educated, or learned back ground, as opposed to a lower-income, working class, or less educated (e.g. no college or maybe some high school) back ground?

from what I have seen, no. I have been Orthodox a while now and I have seen folks convert from all kinds of levels of education.

 

[buzuxi02]

It seems to me that Orthodoxy is a church of the common people in Eastern Europe. However, here in the USA, it seems to be a church of the academic, the rich, and so on. I know that there are exceptions, and that there are some poor or middle class converts (me). Am I wrong in my general observation or am I looking in the wrong places? Feel free to discuss.

There maybe some truth in your observation. In places like Greece the government takes care of priests salaries so less emphasis on raising money, In America you will need to keep the rich happy so they can stick around and pay the bills. In eastern Europe Christianity is centered around traditional life, you learn and practise what is passed down to you from your grandparents and parents, meaning the emphasis is on pious custom's especially in the villages. Whereas in America and other developed nations the emphasis lies in academics and social gospel outreach.

 

[All4Christ]

There maybe some truth in your observation. In places like Greece the government takes care of priests salaries so less emphasis on raising money, In America you will need to keep the rich happy so they can stick around and pay the bills. In eastern Europe Christianity is centered around traditional life, you learn and practise what is passed down to you from your grandparents and parents, meaning the emphasis is on pious custom's especially in the villages. Whereas in America and other developed nations the emphasis lies in academics and social gospel outreach.

I don't think that is specific to Orthodoxy though. The Orthodox Church in the States isn't a higher population of rich people than other churches. In fact, I know of a lot of churches that have many members who are much more well off. Most Orthodox parishes seem to be fairly representative of the population mix in that community.

 

[Dewi Sant]

When I first went to uni (rural, rural Wales), the church was founded by one of the academics and yes, initially the congregation was principally academics. Members of staff, students, and the small Greek community...we even used the college chapel.
Eventually the church gained its own building and I graduated.

I went back a few weeks ago and the demographic was wholly different. No academics except for a retired lecturer (and former chaplain of the college [now chrismated!]).
Everyone there was local, some farmers, shop workers, young families.
It was a joy to see how after the closure of the Orthodox Studies department, the church went not into decline, but into a more local expression.
Greek was seldom used, rather there was a much greater use of Welsh in the liturgy and English.

So perhaps churches may start academic but once they're moving, the community can take over.

 

[handmaiden64]

It seems to me that Orthodoxy is a church of the common people in Eastern Europe. However, here in the USA, it seems to be a church of the academic, the rich, and so on. I know that there are exceptions, and that there are some poor or middle class converts (me). Am I wrong in my general observation or am I looking in the wrong places? Feel free to discuss.

I find this to be true in my multi-ethnic GO parish. I'm a convert with about a year of college who works full-time, but I don't bring in a huge income, just enough to get by from paycheck to paycheck. I think there is only one other family in my parish that are in the same situation as I am. Everyone else at church is very well off financially, many with at least a Masters degree, many business owners, lawyers, medical professionals, educators, etc. It's been difficult to make any true friendships with the people at my parish and I think it is because their lives are so much different than mine. Sitting at a table during coffee hour with a woman complaining of the stress and hardship of having to live in a townhouse temporarily while her family's dream home was being worked on is something I just can't relate to. People are nice and will exchange pleasantries with me every Sunday, but a lot of times that's where any conversation ends. Many know my situation and I feel like they don't know what to make of me. I find that a lot of these people, when you sit down with them at coffee hour and listen to them, are caught up in things of this world. Money can buy you a lot of things and can bring you the sense of temporary happiness in this world, but not the true peace that God offers. Right now I have no other options as far as other Orthodox churches to attend, so I remain where I am.