Pre-Trib Only A Chronology of the End Times

keras

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So the wind was influenced super naturally? If it wasn't a super natural wind then how do you account for the walls of water? Can normal wind really do that?
God is in control of everything: He made it all.
No doubt God did it all as described, and my point is He will take action to reset the worlds civilization again, just as the prophets say He will.
Sorry, there was no event in history whereby ¼ of the Earth was killed. So the 4th seal has not happened yet. There was also no great famine that has hit the world, eitther (like with the breaking of the 3rd seal).
It isn't a single event: the horsemen have caused multiple disasters.
History proves that of all the people born since 33 AD, at least 1/4 have died from war, famine and diseases.
Anyway, the 5th Seal clinch's it, all the martyrs since Stephen wait under the Altar in heaven, to be brought back to earth by Jesus and given new bodies. Revelation 20:4
God the Son appears to the Earth sitting upon a Throne
Actually He is not seen by anyone at the Sixth Seal. Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 18:11, Habakkuk 3:4 All the ungodly people on earth do not say they see Him, they just want to hide, as they see their doom approaching.
I meant, what verse suggests there is a 20 year time gap versus say a 5 year time gap or a 904 year time gap? Where do you get the number 20?
Try dividing 1000 by 48.
What proves a time gap of about a 20 year duration between the Sixth Seal and the Return, is the 7 years of Daniel, plus the 7 years of disposing of the Gog/Magog army, plus the time needed for the new nation of Beulah to become established.
Just look at my chronology. It works just fine.
I disagree with number manipulation like that.
We will see soon enough how God's plans will come to fruition.
 
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Psalm3704

And He shall give you the desires of your heart.
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It says: the Lord will do it. Has He got a nuke arsenal?

I think He has more than one nuke. Do you not know everything belongs to Him? All He has to do is say "press the button" to the maniac and nukes will be launch.

1 Corinthians 10:26 New Living Translation
For "the earth is the LORD's, and everything in it."

Psalm 24:1 New Living Translation
A psalm of David. The earth is the LORD's, and everything in it. The world and all its people belong to him.

It says: their flesh will rot or dissolve as they stand. NOT burn! A very quick effect, radiation sickness can take years.

You can't figure out that video was in slow motion based on a movie? How many actual videos can you find anywhere showing flesh instantly vaporized in less than a second from a nuclear explosion? A camera would instantly vaporize when used to capture the footage.


2 Peter 3:10-12 New King James Version (NKJV)
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?


~Intense heat of 20 million degrees fahrenheit. Keras, 20 million....hotter than the sun!!!!
~Everything within a 4 mile radius instantly vaporized (dissolved)

Isaiah 34:1-4 New King James Version (NKJV)
1 Come near, you nations, to hear;
And heed, you people!
Let the earth hear, and all that is in it,
The world and all things that come forth from it.
2 For the indignation of the Lord is against all nations,
And His fury against all their armies;
He has utterly destroyed them,
He has given them over to the slaughter.
3 Also their slain shall be thrown out;
Their stench shall rise from their corpses,
And the mountains shall be melted with their blood.
4 All the host of heaven shall be dissolved,
And the heavens shall be rolled up like a scroll;
All their host shall fall down
As the leaf falls from the vine,
And as fruit falling from a fig tree.

Psalm 97:5 New King James Version (NKJV)
The mountains melt like wax at the presence of the Lord,
At the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Ezekiel 22:22 Good News Translation (GNT)

They will be melted in Jerusalem the way silver is melted in a furnace, and then they will know that they are feeling the anger of the Lord.”

Micah 1:2-9 New King James Version (NKJV)
2 Hear, all you peoples!
Listen, O earth, and all that is in it!
Let the Lord God be a witness against you,
The Lord from His holy temple.
3 For behold, the Lord is coming out of His place;
He will come down
And tread on the high places of the earth.
4 The mountains will melt under Him,
And the valleys will split
Like wax before the fire,
Like waters poured down a steep place.
5 All this is for the transgression of Jacob
And for the sins of the house of Israel.
What is the transgression of Jacob?
Is it not Samaria?
And what are the high places of Judah?
Are they not Jerusalem?

Psalm 46:6 New King James Version (NKJV)
The nations raged, the kingdoms were moved;
He uttered His voice, the earth melted.

Nahum 1:2-5 New King James Version (NKJV)
2 God is jealous, and the Lord avenges;
The Lord avenges and is furious.
The Lord will take vengeance on His adversaries,
And He reserves wrath for His enemies;
3 The Lord is slow to anger and great in power,
And will not at all acquit the wicked.
The Lord has His way
In the whirlwind and in the storm,
And the clouds are the dust of His feet.
4 He rebukes the sea and makes it dry,
And dries up all the rivers.
Bashan and Carmel wither,
And the flower of Lebanon wilts.
5 The mountains quake before Him,
The hills melt,
And the earth heaves at His presence,
Yes, the world and all who dwell in it.

No CME produced by the sun can generate heat of this magnitude to melt mountains and everything in it's path.

Actually that is correct. For the first 3 1/2 years of the 7 year treaty of peace between the Anti-Christ and the nation of Beulah, in the holy Land, there will be peace. It is only when the AC breaks it and desecrates the Temple that the Great Trib of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls starts.

We're not talking about Israel, we're talking about the world. The tribulation doesn't affect only Israel. In your view, what happens to the world during the first half of the tribulation?

I don't need to refute them, Jesus does that : John 3:13, John 7:34, John 8:21-22, John 17:15, Revelation 5:10
None of those scriptures actually says people will be taken to live in heaven.

And none of those scriptures refutes the fact that Christians go to heaven during the rapture.












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Psalm3704

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I am sorry. None of what you said makes any sense to me.
I am moving on.

May God bless you.
And please be well.


...

You don't have to deal with him.

I just realized this thread is tagged "Pre-Trib Only" which means only those who holds a Pre-Trib Rapture view can engage in discussions in this thread.

Keras is not suppose to be posting on this thread as he's in violation of forum policy.






.
 
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You don't have to deal with him.

I just realized this thread is tagged "Pre-Trib Only" which means only those who holds a Pre-Trib Rapture view can engage in discussions in this thread.

Keras is not suppose to be posting on this thread as he's in violation of forum policy.

.

Not sure why they would want to post in a thread when they know it is not for them.
In either case, I will pray for them to be well.

Anyways, may God bless you today.
And please be well.


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Original Happy Camper

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You don't have to deal with him.

I just realized this thread is tagged "Pre-Trib Only" which means only those who holds a Pre-Trib Rapture view can engage in discussions in this thread.

Keras is not suppose to be posting on this thread as he's in violation of forum policy.

.

Sorry that I can not post on this tread.
Jason I wish you had not excluded discussion.
 
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Revealing Times

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I am just going to do a real end, (Rapture on) end times, because I just created a post elsewhere on this subject. I will go back through your posts latter on and check them in depth. Nice Thread.

Revelation 1 2 and 3 are about the Churches of Asia Minor.

The Rapture is the beginning of Daniels 70th Week. That starts in Revelation chapter 4. COME UP HERE.....

Rev. 4 and 5 Describe the Fathers Glory and Jesus as the Worthy Lamb, the Church is in Heaven Marrying the Lamb at this point and the First part of Rev. 19 would be going on at this exact same time.

Rev. 6 is the Mid-way point of the Daniels 70th Week or of Jacobs trouble. The Anti-Christ starts turning on Israel and starts conquering foes. Rev. 17 is happening at this point because Islam and all Religions (The Harlot) are being destroyed at this point. Rev. 18 starts as soon as the Last Seal is opened so it is not happening quite yet. Rev. 11 is happening at this point also, the Two-Witnesses are prophesying and bringing forth plagues or about to bring forth plagues, they have already turned Israel back to God and the Messiah Jesus. Israel has already fled into the wilderness by this point in time also so parts of Rev. 12 are happening here also. Rev. 13 is happening by now also, the Beast has risen out of the Sea.

Rev. 7 is the Anointing of the 144,000 and after that John in Heaven watching the Marriage of the Lamb and the Church which is happening at this point in Heaven, Rev. 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; Then an elder tells John these are they which came out of the Great Tribulation. The great tribulation is the troubles of the world, the trials all of man-kind go through in their lives, we all face this challenge in life, we are tested just like Jesus was tempted. We have made it to Heaven. But we are not in Jacobs Trouble, because that was designed to get Israel to Repent, not the Church who is at this point in Heaven, Marrying the Lamb. Those under the Alter in Seal #6 were told to wait until their fellow servants were killed also, so they are not in Heaven yet, they yet sleep. The Great Tribulation doesn't mean there can't also be a GREATEST TIME OF TROUBLES.

Rev. 8, the Seventh Seal Sounds, the plagues of God are brought forth via the Seven Trumps, the Two-Witnesses in Rev. 11 are praying them down upon a wicked earth (Babylon) and the Prayers of the Saints are cast down on earth, mingled with fire. Rev. 18 starts happening at this exact point, Babylon is Fallen is fallen. Babylon is hit by he plagues of God and her commerce is destroyed, her grasses and trees are burned up, many peoples die, an asteroid hits, the waters turn to blood, sea creatures die, many shops are destroyed, the waters are poisoned, the sun, moon and stars are darkened, no doubt because of the smoke, and Angel announces there are Three Woes left !!!

Rev. 9 ushers in two of the final three Woes. Rev. 18 is still happening at this very time. Woe #1 is Apollyon being released from the bottomless pit along with a horde of Demons that torture men, Rev. 18 says the Earth has become a habitation of Devils !! Now comes Woe #2, four Angels are released, they have an Army of 200 Million Horsemen, they have the same Breastplates as the High Priests of Israel, they kill men on earth who it says STILL WILL NOT REPENT !! That tells us what ? This is a Plague of God, this is not a Human Army of 200 Million Horsemen. The Euphrates River is dried up in Rev. 16, during the Sixth Vial, not here at the Sixth Trumpet in Rev. 9 !! The Kings of the East have nothing to do with THIS ARMY of Horsemen. Rev. 14 is happening at this exact time, the 144,000 are preaching repent, repent and another angel is saying Babylon has fallen, fallen. Another Angel says if any man worships the Beast or his Image, or takes the Mark of the Beast he will receive the WRATH OF GOD !! Revelation chapter 18 is the Judgment of Babylon ( the Last Beast System or conglomerate Government that comes against Israel, to subdue and Destroy her ). Rev. 18 is still going on at the same time Rev. 9 is happening.

Rev. 10 is John eating a book because God doesn't want him to Reveal everything he heard about this event, this seems to be a one event vision, however, it seems the Angel swore that when the Seventh Angel sounded, time should be no more (as we know it).

Rev. 11, as I stated, much of that which is happening in Rev. 6, 7 and 8 are all happening at the exact same time as Rev. 11. The Two Woes are Past, now comes the Third Woe just after the Two-Witnesses are killed, come back to life and have ascended unto Heaven. And the 3rd Woe sounded, and this ushers in the Seven Vials of Gods wrath. The Kingdoms of this Earth have become the Kingdoms of the Lord and the Nations (Babylon) were angry because His Wrath (Gods Wrath) had come. Rev. 15 and Rev. 16 are the results of the Seven Vials of Gods Wrath to come.

Rev. 12 is the Story of Israel (Women) Baby Jesus, The Dragon etc. etc. It shows who birthed Jesus, how Satan tied to kill him, how he ascended to Heaven and sat at the Right Hand of God. Then Israel fled into the Wilderness for 1260 Days, to be protected by God so this part happens as Rev. 6 is happening no doubt. Then Satan comes after the Christians this is no doubt the Martyrs under the Alter in the 5th Seal who were Beheaded for Jesus' name.

Rev. 13 is the story of the rise of the Anti-Christ and his False Prophet, this happens at the very beginning of Daniels 70th Week no doubt. He turns on Israel and all False and True Religions at the Mid-way point, he will then kill all who refuse to worship him as GOD both rich and poor, great and small. His number is 666.

Rev. 14 Jesus then [anoints/Seals them on their foreheads] the 144,000 personally, on Mount Zion. He then sends them forth to preach the Gospel unto all mankind. They go forth and preach the Gospel to men as Babylon is Falling, yet they seem to repent not most of the times, but yet, no one can say they have not heard the Gospel, this will be the Judgment against them, they heard but rejected the good news of Jesus Christs Salvation via the Blood !! They wanted no part. Rev. 9 is happening at the same time...

Rev. 15. is about the Seven Last Plagues that the final Seven Vials are going to bring forth.

Rev. 16 is the Seven Vials of Gods Wrath being poured out upon Babylon the Great !! This is what Rev. 18 is all about, Rev. 18 is just a more detailed version of Babylon Falling while Rev. 16 is describing the Plagues which are the Third and final Woe !! In the very first Vial grievous sores fall upon men with the Mark of the Beast on them, then in the 2nd Vial, the Seas became as dead men's blood and all the sea creatures died. In the 3rd Vial all the drinking waters turn to blood. The 4th Vial is poured out and the sun scorches men and they blasphemed God, yet repented not !! In the 5th Vial, we see that the Seat of the Beast (Babylon) became as Dark, and men gnawed at their tongues for pain but yet Repented not. The 6th Vial is now poured out, and the Euphrates River is dried up preparing the way for the Kings of the East ( NOT Preparing the way for a 200 million Horsemen Army !!! ) to do battle in Armageddon no doubt, because there are Three Evil Spirits sent out from the Anti-Christ, Dragon and the False Prophet to entice the Kings unto battle, they no doubt want to destroy Israel/Jerusalem once and for all. Then the Seventh and Final Vial is pored out and there is a voice from Heaven saying It is done.... then there is a Great Earthquake such as has never been seen before, and Jerusalem is divided into Three Parts as Jesus puts a foot upon Mount Zion. Then of course the CITIES of the NATIONS (Babylon) fell: and Great Babylon came into REMEMBRANCE UNTO GOD !! To give unto her the cup of the wine of His fierce Wrath !! Of Course this is what is Happening to Babylon in Rev. chapter 18. IT IS DONE, there is no more Kingdoms of men, Jesus Christ hast taken over, as soon as he defeats the Anti-Christ and his Kings/Satan in Rev. 19. There is in essence no Rev. 17 or Rev. chapter 18, they are just an enhanced retelling of the Fall of Babylons Two Sides, the Religious Harlot and the Governmental Beast System. Rev. 17:16 The Kings HATE the Harlot and burn her and destroy her (False Religion Judged) Rev. 18:2 Babylon the Great is fallen, is fallen, she has become the habitation of devils !! (False Government Side Judged). Commerce destroyed, plagues brought forth etc. etc.

Rev. Chapter 19, this chapter starts in Rev. 4 and is ongoing in Rev, 5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16. Then our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ comes back with us Saints, the Church, who he has Married in Rev. 19, and He defeats Satan (binds hi in the in the pit for 1000 years) the Anti-Christ and False Prophet whom he judges and throws into Hell (Rev. 20:10) and all the Kings and Armies of Satan with the Sword of his Mouth (Holy Spirit) and Without Hands (Holy Spirit). Amen, Glory to God.
 
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I am just going to do a real end, (Rapture on) end times, because I just created a post elsewhere on this sybject. I will go back through you posts latter on and check them in depth. Nice Thread.

Thank you. The chronology was over several months of reading many articles and by praying and re-arranging my chronology several times based on Scripture. While I am comfortable with my chronology, I am open to re-arrange it based on signficant or convincing Scripture.


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Revealing Times

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The Dead in Christ Are Taken From Abraham's Bosom By the Rapture:
(Both the Old Testament Saints and Church Age Saints in Abraham's Bosom Are Called to Rise To Meet the Lord in the Air. For in the Rapture: The Dead in Christ Shall Rise First):
No big beef here, but there is some evidence here that the Saints of old (before the Church age) have already been raptured to Heaven. Remember Jesus told the Thief on the Cross, you will be with me in paradise this day, and then this Gem below :

Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. { With these two points one might could make the argument the Saints pre Christs Death have already been taken to Heaven. It is an interesting thought. }

1st Half of Tribulation (The Beginning of Sorrows):
(The First 3 ½ Years of the Tribulation):
(Also Known As the "Beginning of Birth Pains"):

The Beginning of Sorrows Described:
(Nations Rise Against Nations, Famines, Pestilences, and Earthquakes, etc.):

Matthew 24:7-8

For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Hello Brother, I have a different take on this passage, because of a few reasons, but I pretty much have to discuss Matthew 1-31 to make the points. I do not think that the 1st half of the Tribulation comes before Matthew 24:14, because Jesus says the Gospel must be preached unto all the world (then will the end come). Well we know when the Gentiles age (Church age) is fulfilled, the Church is Raptured to Heaven. So when verse 14 comes to pass, then and only then can the Tribulation/Daniels One Seven (Final Week) start.

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world ? {{ So Jesus tells the Disciples about the destruction of the Temple, then they ask Jesus Three questions 1.) When will the Temple be destroyed. 2.) What will be the sign of your coming. 3.) When will the world end. I think many people overlook this set of questions and thus miss the answers. Jesus left the Temple Destruction explanation intact, with no further explanation, he knew they would eventually see this for themselves unless they were killed first, so question #1 was answered before it was asked, Jesus saw no need to answer further, which was his ways at times, to explain in part. }}

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. {{ I think this stretches from basically Jesus' death until right before the rapture, like WW1 and WW2 and until today, Jesus is warning the disciples about false doctrine by many false disciples that will come forth in Jesus' name and this is a 2000 year warning, as is the wars and rumors of wars. Jesus says don't be troubled, for the end is not yet, then he describes wars, infighting, famine etc. etc and says these are BIRTH PANGS meaning the birth is nigh of the Tribulation or the time of Jacobs trouble is nigh, it will be very apparent. Truth is I see the birth pangs now, as you probably do also. Next though, Jesus changes everything up, and he is again telling his disciples what they must go through in the very near future, below....but there is also a further warning about how people will wax cold as the birth pangs get stronger close to the end of the age.}}

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. {{ We know that most of the Disciples were murdered or crucified. Many nations no doubt hated them for preaching the Gospel unto their peoples who believed in false deities. Of course when persecution came to the church, there were no doubt many who left the faith and turned Christians in, the Romans slew many Christians as did other nations. Many false prophets will arise, evil will abound, but he that endures (the tribulation of life, the trials that life brings forth) until the end (of his life) will be saved. We have to run the marathon to the end. Amen. This is not about Christians enduring Tribulation, we will be in Heaven marrying the Lamb.}}

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: {{ The Gospel is preached unto all the world, then the End Comes (Tribulation or Seventieth Week starts here) then Jesus warns the Jewish nation that when they see the Abomination of Desolation they should Flee to the Wilderness/Mountains. }}


17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. {{ Jesus is warning the future Jewish nation, who I think have accepted Jesus as their Messiah by the time of the Abomination of Desolation, that they should get gone fast, don't look back, because this will be a time of trouble like the world has never seen before and like they will never see again. The period of Jacobs Trouble is a predetermined 7 Years per Daniels 70th Week Decree. It is not really being shortened so much as it was a predetermined length of Seven Years on purpose, then Jesus steps onto the Mount. of Olives to save Israel. }}

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. {{ Here is the False Prophet and Anti-Christ, they will show Signs and Wonders, these are different from the false prophets in the first part of the chapter. If it were possible, they would deceive the very elect, but the elect have the Holy Spirit, so this is not possible. The 144,000, the Two-Witnesses, and Israel will not be deceived. But Jesus has warned them what to look for, do not believe he is in the desert or in a secret chamber/bunker somewhere, because as we see below, Jesus tells them where they can find him in that day. }}

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. {{ Jesus answers the disciples question #2 here, he explains the clearest sign of of his coming will be that they will not find him anywhere on earth, but in the clouds, coming from the East to the west. Amen.}}

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. {{ Jesus answers question #3 here, when will the end (of the Age) be. Jesus tells the disciples that immediately after Jacobs Trouble or Daniels Seventieth Seven, (Tribulation period) that he will come back, we the Church come back with him (Rev. 19) the Plagues have just been brought to bare on the tribes of the earth (Babylon/Last Gov. Beast System) and the smoke has darkened the sun, moon and Stars. Then an Angel is commanded to gather us Elect/Bride of Christ, from the four corners of Heaven. So Jesus answers all three questions. But two of the Answers come after verse 27. }}

In my opinion Matthew 1-31 is for the disciples of Jesus' day and for the Jewish nation which will go through Jacobs Trouble (Tribulation) before Elijah (Malachi 4:5-6) turns them back unto God just before the Abomination of Desolation. They will need to understand all of these things because they will go through them, the Church will not, she will be Raptured. So I think the Parable of the Fig Tree (Matthew 24:32-42) is for the Messianic Jews (Jesus had to cover both options for the End Times) and it teaches that they should understand that when Israel is reborn, his return is nigh and they should be watching for his return. Because this generation, that see Israels rebirth, will not pass, until they see Jesus' Return.

MIND YOU...This return will be different, this will be a Snatching away or a Rapture, Jesus tells these expectant peoples that no one knows when he will return in this instance, but the Father only. The Father of the Bridegroom always gave the orders to go and collect he Bride for the Marriage. They spent Seven Days in the Marriage Chambers (7 Years) Jesus' own words, I go to prepare for you a place, and if I go, I will come again for you. Jesus then tells these Messianic Jews to WATCH because he could come at any moment (BE READY/Full of the Holy Spirit). For there will be two grinding and ONE will be taken and ONE will be left. Two will be in the field, one TAKEN and one will be LEFT BEHIND !!

Jesus warned the Jewish Nation, who will mostly be left behind, what they should do. And he also warned the Christian Jews what to expect/look for. Amen.
 
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No big beef here, but there is some evidence here that the Saints of old (before the Church age) have already been raptured to Heaven. Remember Jesus told the Thief on the cross, you will be with me in paradise this day, and the Gem :

Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. { With these two points one might could make the argument the Saints pre Christs Death have already been taken to Heaven. It is an interesting thought. }

No, my friend. These are not really Raptures of any kind. When both Jesus and the thief on the cross died, they went to Abraham's bosom in the heart of the Earth. Paradise is in reference to Abraham's bosom (See Luke 16:19-31).

As for OT saints being resurrected out of their graves: Well, they were not taken up into Heaven at any point. They merely were resurrected bodily and seen by other people. In 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 Paul was talking about an event whereby people will be gathered up into the air to meet Him. Paul said that the dead in Christ will rise first to meet the Lord in the air. This is not even remotely the same event as described as the OT saints coming out of their graves.

Revealing Times said:
Hello Brother, I have a different take on this passage, because of a few reasons, but I pretty much have to discuss Matthew 1-31 to make the points. I do not think that the 1st half of Tribulation comes before Matthew 24:14, because Jesus says the Gospel must be preached unto all the world (then will the end come). Well we know when the Gentiles age (Church age) is up, the Church is raptured to Heaven. So when verse 14 comes to pass, then and only then can the Tribulation Daniels One Seven (Final Week) start.

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world ? {{ So Jesus tells the Disciples about the destruction of the Temple, then they ask Jesus Three questions 1.) When will the Temple be destroyed. 2.) What will be the sign of your coming. 3.) When will the world end. I think many people overlook this set of questions and thus miss the answers. Jesus left the Temple Destruction explanation intact, with no further explanation, he knew they would eventually see this for themselves unless they were killed first, so question number 1 was answered before it was asked, Jesus saw no need to answer further, which was his ways at time, to explain in part. }}

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. {{ I think this stretches from basically Jesus' death until right before the rapture, like WW1 and WW2, Jesus is warning the disciples about false doctrine by many false disciples that will come forth in Jesus' name and this is a 2000 year warning, as is the wars and rumors of wars. Jesus says don't be troubled, for the end is not yet, then he describes wars, infighting, famine etc. etc and says these are BIRTH PANGS meaning the birth is nigh of the Tribulation or the time of Jacobs trouble is nigh, it will be very apparent. Truth is I see the birth pangs now, as you probably do also. Next though, Jesus changes everything up, and he is again telling his disciples what they must go through in the very near future, below.........}}

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. {{ We know that most of the Disciples were murdered or crucified. Many nations no doubt hated them for preaching the Gospel unto their peoples who believed in false deities. Of course when persecution came to the church, there were no doubt many who left the faith and turned Christians in, the Romans slew many Christians as did other nations. Many false prophets will arise, evil will abound, but he that endures (the tribulation of life, the trials that life brings forth) until the end (of his life) will be saved. We have to run the marathon to the end. Amen. This is not about Christians enduring, we will be in Heaven marrying the Lamb.}}

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: {{ The Gospel is preached unto all the world, then the End Comes (Tribulation or Seventieth Week starts here) then Jesus warns the Jewish nation that when they see the Abomination of Desolation they should Flee to the Wilderness/Mountains. }}


17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. {{ Jesus is warning the future Jewish nation, who I think have accepted Jesus as their Messiah by the time of the Abomination of Desolation, that they should get gone fast, don't look back, because this will be a time of trouble like the world has never seen before and like they will never see again. The period of Jacobs Trouble is a predetermined 7 Years per Daniels 70th Week Decree. It is not really being shortened so much as it was a predetermined length of Seven Years on purpose, Jesus steps onto the Mount. of Olives to save Israel. }}

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. {{ Here is the False Prophet and Anti-Christ, they will show signs and Wonders, these are different from the ones in the first part of the chapter. If it were possible, they would deceive the elect, but the elect have the Holy Spirit, so this is not possible. The 144,000, the Two-Witnesses, and Israel will not be deceived. But Jesus has warned them what to look for. do not believe he is in the desert or in a secret chamber/bunker somewhere, because as we see below, Jesus tells them where they can find him in that day. }}

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. {{ Jesus answers the disciples question #2 here, he explains the clearest sign of of his coming will be that they will not find him anywhere on earth, but in the clouds, coming from the East. Amen. }}

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. {{ Jesus answers question #3 here, when will the end (of the Age) be. Jesus tells the disciples that immediately after Jacobs Trouble or Daniels Seventieth Seven, (Tribulation period) that he will come back, we the Church comes back with him (Rev. 19) the Plagues have just been brought to bare on the tribes of the earth (Babylon/Last Gov. Beast System) and the smoke has darkened the sun, moon and Stars. Then the Angel is commanded to gather us Elect/Bride of Christ, from the four corners of Heaven. So Jesus answers all three questions. But two of the Answers come after verse 27. }}

In my opinion Matthew 1-31 is for the disciples of Jesus' day and for Jewish nation which will go through Jacobs Trouble (Tribulation) before Elijah (Malachi 4:5-6) turns them back unto God just before the Abomination of Desolation. They will need to understand all of these things because they will go through them, the Church will not, she will be Raptured. So I think the Parable of the Fig Tree (Matthew 24:32-42) is for the Messianic Jews (Jesus had to cover both options for the End Times) and it teaches that they should understand that when Israel is reborn, his return is nigh and they should be watching for his return. Because this generation, that see Israels rebirth, will not pass, until they see Jesus Return.

MIND YOU...This return will be different, this will be a Snatching away or a Rapture, Jesus tells these expectant peoples that no one knows when he will return in this instance, but the Father only. The Father of the Bridegroom always gave the orders to go and collect he Bride for the Marriage. They spent Seven Days in the Marriage Chambers (7 Years) Jesus' own words, I go to prepare for you a place, and if I go, I will come again for you. Jesus then tells these Messianic Jews to WATCH because he could come at any moment (BE READY/Full of the Holy Spirit). For there will be two grinding and ONE will be taken and ONE will be left. Two will be in the field, one TAKEN and one will be LEFT BEHIND !!

Jesus warned the Jewish Nation, who will mostly be left behind, what they should do. And he also warned the Christian Jews what to expect. Amen.

Well, first, this is a Pre-Trib Only thread, my friend. Only Pre-Trib believers are supposed to post here. Meaning, you are breaking forum rules and you should not reply to my post here.

Anyways, the seals in Revelation have clearly not happened yet. Who is the anti-Christ in the first seal who went out to conquer? How is peace being taken from the Earth (second seal) different than the rest of the history of the world? Sorry, I do not see a time in history that describes this. In other words, certain nations have remained nueteral during the wars that we had and they enjoyed peace. What about the economic collapse with the third seal? When did this world wide collapse of the economy ever take place? The global economic collapse takes place with the fall of Babylon in Revelation 17 thru Revelation 18. We see a clear mention of the collapse of the economy of Babylon in Revelation 18. It talks about ships and them weeping over their goods. When did this happen already? Then there is the 4th seal. You really can't get around this one having taken place already. No point in history has 1/4 of the world been destroyed by death. This 4th seal perfectly lines up with the anti-Christ enforcing the mark of the Beast upon people. Many Christians will die for their faith. The 5th seal are saints who were just killed by the anti-Christ and are crying out for justice to be done. God responds with the 6th seal. The trumpet and bowl judgments then hit over 3 and a half years. This is the Great Tribulation. Close to the end of this time, with the end of the 6th bowl judgment, Jesus returns.

For the disciples are asking when is the END of this age or world. They are asking when the temple will be destroyed and the SIGN of HIs coming. Jesus says things that will lead UP to the things He is talking about. The outer court wall of the temple is still standing. These stones from the old temple of Jesus's day are still standing and have not been thrown down.

Here are pictures of the Old Jewish Temple (Outer Court Wall) (i.e. the Wailing Wall) that exists today:


In any event, here is part of my chronology (Which takes place right before Jesus's return which will then eventually be followed by the purification of this world by fire - that then leads into the Milllennium).

The Gospel Has Been Preached To All The World:
(And The Target Number of Gentiles Who Will Come to the Faith Has Been Reached):

Matthew 24:14

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Luke 21:24b

And Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Romans 11:25

For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

The Nation Israel Calls on the Lord & Becomes Regenerated:


Joel 3:16b NLT

But the LORD will be a refuge for his people, a strong fortress for the people of Israel.

Hosea 5:15

I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.

Romans 11:23-24 NLT

And if the people of Israel turn from their unbelief, they will be grafted in again, for God has the power to graft them back into the tree. You, by nature, were a branch cut from a wild olive tree. So if God was willing to do something contrary to nature by grafting you into his cultivated tree, he will be far more eager to graft the original branches back into the tree where they belong.

Leviticus 26:40-42 WEB

“'If they confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, in their trespass which they trespassed against me, and also that, because they walked contrary to me, I also walked contrary to them, and brought them into the land of their enemies: if then their uncircumcised heart is humbled, and they then accept the punishment of their iniquity; then I will remember my covenant with Jacob; and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham; and I will remember the land."

Hosea 6:1-3 GWT

Let's return to the LORD. Even though he has torn us to pieces, he will heal us. Even though he has wounded us, he will bandage our wounds. After two days he will revive us. On the third day he will raise us so that we may live in his presence. Let's learn about the LORD. Let's get to know the LORD. He will come to us as sure as the morning comes. He will come to us like the autumn rains and the spring rains that water the ground.

Joel 2:32

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Matthew 23:39 NIV

For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'

The 1st Harvest is Ready to Be Reaped:

Revelation 14:14-15

And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in your sickle, and reap: for the time has come for you to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

"The Second Coming of Christ:
(The Lord Appears in the Clouds Coming in Great Power & Glory):

Revelation 16:15

The Sixth Vial (Part 3)

"Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame."

Revelation 1:7 NIV

Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him.

Matthew 24:27

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mark 13:26

And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Luke 17:24

For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

Luke 21:27

And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Isaiah 26:21a NLT

Look! The LORD is coming from heaven to punish the people of the earth for their sins.

Psalm 96:13 NKJV

For He is coming, for He is coming to judge the earth. He shall judge the world with righteousness

Matthew 24:30b

And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn

Revelation 19:11-13 and Revelation 19:15-16

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

1 Timothy 6:14 NLT and 1 Timothy 6:15 NKJV

Our Lord Jesus Christ comes again...
He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.


....
 
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Revealing Times

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No, my friend. These are not really Raptures of any kind. When both Jesus and the thief on the cross died, they went to Abraham's bosom in the heart of the Earth. Paradise is in reference to Abraham's bosom (See Luke 16:19-31).

As for OT saints being resurrected out of their graves: Well, they were not taken up into Heaven at any point. They merely were resurrected bodily and seen by other people. In 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 Paul was talking about an event whereby people will be gathered up into the air to meet Him. Paul said that the dead in Christ will rise first to meet the Lord in the air. This is not even remotely the same event as described as the OT saints coming out of their graves.
That is a thought. But I think the thief was with Jesus that very day. And Saints of old came forth from the graves and appeared in Jerusalem. Jesus paid their debts that very day, and I believe they could very well be in heaven today. That's just my opinion, it could be the other way because it is vague.
Well, first, this is a Pre-Trib Only thread, my friend. Only Pre-Trib believers are supposed to post here. Meaning, you are breaking forum rules and you should not reply to my post here.
If you can not tell I am pre-trib, then you did not read my post or somehow misunderstood my post, I see you are speaking of Babylon on down in your post, so I will try and read further and try and understand why you have a misconception of my post and positions. I REPEAT !!! The Tribulation can not start until the Gospel has been preached unto all the world. That is what Jesus said in Matthew 24:14. Anything before 24:14 therefore CAN NOT BE part of the Tribulation.

Now I will paste the parts from my other post that proves I am Pre-Trib, the ones you seem to have misconstrued it seems. I have been a preacher 25 years, no one has ever accused me of being mid or post trib, I kind of got a chuckle out of that.


1. Well we know when the Gentiles age (Church age) is fulfilled, the Church is Raptured to Heaven.

2. Jesus tells the disciples that immediately after Jacobs Trouble or Daniels Seventieth Seven, (Tribulation period) that he will come back, we the CHURCH COME BACK WITH HIM (Rev. 19) the Plagues have just been brought to bare on the tribes of the earth


3. Then an Angel is commanded to gather us Elect/Bride of Christ, from the four corners of Heaven.

4. MIND YOU...This return will be different, this will be a Snatching away or a Rapture, Jesus tells these expectant peoples that no one knows when he will return in this instance, but the Father only. The Father of the Bridegroom always gave the orders to go and collect he Bride for the Marriage. They spent Seven Days in the Marriage Chambers (7 Years) Jesus' own words, I go to prepare for you a place, and if I go, I will come again for you. Jesus then tells these Messianic Jews to WATCH because he could come at any moment (BE READY/Full of the Holy Spirit). For there will be two grinding and ONE will be taken and ONE will be left. Two will be in the field, one TAKEN and one will be LEFT BEHIND !!

Jesus warned the Jewish Nation, who will mostly be left behind, what they should do. And he also warned the Christian Jews what to expect/look for. Amen.

Above describes two comings....The Rapture the Messianic Jews should be looking for and the time of Jacobs Trouble that the unbelieving Jews go through, they will see Jesus coming in the Clouds, WITH THE CHURCH.

I WILL REREAD and try to see where the misunderstanding came from.
 
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Revealing Times

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Anyways, the seals in Revelation have clearly not happened yet. Who is the anti-Christ in the first seal who went out to conquer? How is peace being taken from the Earth (second seal) different than the rest of the history of the world? Sorry, I do not see a time in history that describes this. In other words, certain nations have remained nueteral during the wars that we had and they enjoyed peace. What about the economic collapse with the third seal?
Where do you see anywhere, where I have claimed any Seal(s) have been opened ? The Anti-Christ may very well be alive, but he has not been Revealed (Seal #1) If it is the Babylon mentioned, I am speaking about the Rapture happening first, and then Jesus coming back IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation WITH THE CHURCH....Do you get that part ? With the Church in Rev. 19, we come back with Jesus on White Horses IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation, this actually thwarts the mid and post tribbers. Therefore when we come back with Jesus, the 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets and 7 Vials of Gods Wrath have already happened, WE the Church did no go through it, we were in Heaven, marrying the Lamb. We come back with him, to defeat Babylon ( which is the Last Beast Government ) who has already received the plagues of God. Now they just need wiping out once and for all. We the Church and Jesus land on Mt. Zion, and defeat them at Armageddon, just like Rev. 16 says, and Babylon came into remembrance unto God. Then the Nations Fell (The Nations are Babylon) The Harlot is False Religion, and Babylon is False Gov. or the last Head of the Seven Headed Beast.

Seems the Babylon mention confused you. But after we come back with Jesus don't we defeat Babylon ?
The global economic collapse takes place with the fall of Babylon in Revelation 17 thru Revelation 18. We see a clear mention of the collapse of the economy of Babylon in Revelation 18. It talks about ships and them weeping over their goods. When did this happen already?
There is no Revelation 17 or 18 in reality. Read Rev. 16, that is the final battle, the Angel says IT IS DONE !! Rev. 17 and 18 are only an enhanced retelling of things that have already happened by the time Rev. 16 happens/ends.

Rev. 17 happens at the 3 1/2 year mark (abomination of desolation) because all religions will be killed off. Rev. 18 is happening during all of the Trumpets and Vials, Babylon is the world being Judged by God, not a city or a nation. It is the Last Gov. Beast System that seeks to come against Israel to destroy her.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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As for Jesus being with the thief: Yes, I believe Jesus was with the thief in Paradise. But this Paradise is called "Abraham's Bosom" in the heart of the Earth. Jesus said he would be three days and three nights in the heart of the Earth. Jesus could not also be in heaven if he was in the heart of the Earth. So Paradise is talking about Abraham's bosom in Sheol.

As for my misunderstanding on you holding to a Pre-Trib Rapture View: Usually those who think the events of the Olivet discourse have already taken place also believe the seals have already happened. I was thinking you were saying the first seal had taken place.

As for the timing of the end: Again, what did his disciples ask Jesus?

They said:

(a) Tell us, when shall these things be? (i.e. the temple utterly destroyed)
(b) and what shall be the sign of thy coming, (i.e. Second Coming)
(c) and of the end of the world? (i.e. the End of this world forever whereby it does not exist).

I am not sure your exact belief, but I get the impression that you are saying that the end of the world takes place with the beginning of the Tribulation I think. If that is what you are saying then this is not true. The end of the world means exactly that. The end of the world. If the Tribulation was the end of the world it would be an oxymoron. The end of the world means non-existence of this world.

Jesus is describing things that must take place BEFORE the temple is destroyed completely (Note: the temple still exists today) and BEFORE Jesus returns and destroys the surrounding nations that come up against Him (i.e. His 2nd Coming) and BEFORE the end of this world (i.e. the non-existence of this world when it is purified by fire - similar to the global flood but more intense by the fact that it will not leave anything of this world behind).


...
 
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Revealing Times

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As for my misunderstanding on you holding to a Pre-Trib Rapture View: Usually those who think the events of the Olivet discourse have already taken place also believe the seals have already happened. I was thinking you were saying the first seal had taken place.
I don't think the events of the Olivet discourse have happened per se, I am pointing out that you are misunderstanding the timing of what Jesus was speaking about in the Olivet discourse. NOW I SEE THE MISUNDERSTANDING... I say that everything Jesus spoke of before verse 14 can not be about the Tribulation as you imply. But has to be before the Rapture.

CATCH THIS KEY....Jesus said in verse 14, the Gospel must be preached unto all the world and then the end shall come. Then in the very next verse he tells Israel to Flee when she sees the Abomination of Desolation. So we preach the Gospel into all the world, this fulfills the time of the Gentiles, we are Raptured to Heaven. (this has to be after verse 14). Then the AoD happens, then there will be trouble like never before. Birth pangs is not birth. It is not here yet if it is birth pangs.

(a) Tell us, when shall these things be? (i.e. the temple utterly destroyed)
(b) and what shall be the sign of thy coming, (i.e. Second Coming)
(c) and of the end of the world? (i.e. the End of this world forever whereby it does not exist).
Except Jesus never tells about the end of the world. I think by the end of the world it was meant the end of the age, his Second Coming to rule for 1000 years. And the sign of his coming will of course be in the East, but the warning was do not believe the Anti-Christ and False Prophet are of me, I will not be on earth again unless you see me coming first in the clouds. Kind of the same thing, just semantics here.

I am not sure your exact belief, but I get the impression that you are saying that the end of the world takes place with the beginning of the Tribulation I think. If that is what you are saying then this is not true. The end of the world means exactly that. The end of the world. If the Tribulation was the end of the world it would be an oxymoron. The end of the world means non-existence of this world.
I think Jesus is referring to the Tribulation as the end of the age, why else would he say the Gospel must be preached unto all the world, then the end will come, then right after he speaks about the AoD and the perilous troubles ahead.

Church departs only after the Gospel has been brought to the ends of the earth. Thus nothing before verse 14 can be in the Tribulation. That is my belief.
 
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Psalm3704

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In either case, I will pray for them to be well.

Good man. I'm glad to hear it.

Sorry for the late reply. For some strange reason, I couldn't sign on the day after posting #144 and still not able to with my old web browser. I'm able to now after downloading and trying out this new browser.







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dfw69

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Summary I believe

1)the lord Jesus appears in the sky

2)the first trumpet call sounds and a loud command from the lord is heard and the resurrection of dead in Christ will take place on firstfruits which is on the first day of the counting of the Omer of the 40th jubilee

2) the second trumpet call sounds to change from mortal to immortal in an instant and the recieving of heavenly bodies on the 40th day of the counting of the Omer of the 40th jubilee

3) the final call and invite to come into the house of the lord where we will rise upward to meet the lord in the air to follow him to his fathers house on the 40th day of the counting of the Omer on the 40th jubilee

4)perilous times come and the beginning of birth pangs for false messiahs and false prophets come to deceive leading all towards a false messianic age

5) outpouring of Holy Spirit to counter false messianic age

6) persecutions arise against saints and judgements by Talmud and Torah laws condemning anyone still holding on to Christ Jesus ... (beheading for Gentiles who breaks noachide laws)

7) false messianic age last a short space

8) 7 seals open to counter false messianic age

9) rise of the first beast also known as the antichrist or Assyrian to gain control over 10 gentile kingdoms which will be known as the 10 lost tribes of Israel within the false messianic age

10) war famine plague death martyrs because of the rise of the first beast

11) the 6th seal and wrath of God and the lamb is revealed for sins committed within the false messianic age and the sealing of 144000 Israelites

12) 7 trumpet judgements upon false messianic age

13) rise of the second beast and final secular kingdom for antichrist and his false prophet will wage war against saints who are returning to Jesus for having understood all the signs before them... antichrist will sit in the temple proclaiming to be god and will set up a golem of himself in the temple to be worship also known as abomination of desolation ....Israel flee to Petra and disperse one last time

14)Enoch and Elijah appear

15)7 vials poured upon antichrist kingdom and final warnings against joining his kingdom

16)Armageddon

17) return of Jesus

18) beast and false prophet cast into lake of fire and Satan bound

19) gathering of tares judgements upon them

20) gathering of Israel back to homeland

21) the millennium

22) Satan loose

23) final rebellion

24) fire from heaven

25) great white throne judgements

26) new heaven new earth

27) new Jerusalem comes down from heaven
 
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Summary I believe

1)the lord Jesus appears in the sky

2)the first trumpet call sounds and a loud command from the lord is heard and the resurrection of dead in Christ will take place on firstfruits which is on the first day of the counting of the Omer of the 40th jubilee

2) the second trumpet call sounds to change from mortal to immortal in an instant and the recieving of heavenly bodies on the 40th day of the counting of the Omer of the 40th jubilee

3) the final call and invite to come into the house of the lord where we will rise upward to meet the lord in the air to follow him to his fathers house on the 40th day of the counting of the Omer on the 40th jubilee

4)perilous times come and the beginning of birth pangs for false messiahs and false prophets come to deceive leading all towards a false messianic age

5) outpouring of Holy Spirit to counter false messianic age

6) persecutions arise against saints and judgements by Talmud and Torah laws condemning anyone still holding on to Christ Jesus ... (beheading for Gentiles who breaks noachide laws)

7) false messianic age last a short space

8) 7 seals open to counter false messianic age

9) rise of the first beast also known as the antichrist or Assyrian to gain control over 10 gentile kingdoms which will be known as the 10 lost tribes of Israel within the false messianic age

10) war famine plague death martyrs because of the rise of the first beast

11) the 6th seal and wrath of God and the lamb is revealed for sins committed within the false messianic age and the sealing of 144000 Israelites

12) 7 trumpet judgements upon false messianic age

13) rise of the second beast and final secular kingdom for antichrist and his false prophet will wage war against saints who are returning to Jesus for having understood all the signs before them... antichrist will sit in the temple proclaiming to be god and will set up a golem of himself in the temple to be worship also known as abomination of desolation ....Israel flee to Petra and disperse one last time

14)Enoch and Elijah appear

15)7 vials poured upon antichrist kingdom and final warnings against joining his kingdom

16)Armageddon

17) return of Jesus

18) beast and false prophet cast into lake of fire and Satan bound

19) gathering of tares judgements upon them

20) gathering of Israel back to homeland

21) the millennium

22) Satan loose

23) final rebellion

24) fire from heaven

25) great white throne judgements

26) new heaven new earth

27) new Jerusalem comes down from heaven

Interesting way of how the Pre-Trib Rapture occurs (with the three horns blowing). I never seen it like that before. Anyways, thank you for sharing.

And God bless you.


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Straightshot

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Hint:

The Revelation seals are not the specific events of the coming tribulation, but portents [previews] of the prevailing conditions by example

The actual tribulation period will not begin until the Lord removes all of the seals from the scroll containing the tribulation events [Revelation 5:1-10]

None of the actual tribulation events which begin in chapter 8 have ever taken place and are still pending

If you mix the seals with the actual tribulation events you will cause nothing but confusion .... those who attempt to give an historical rendering of the seals taking place over the past are in error

The seals represent conditions that will prevail throughout the tribulation period of 2550 days

The 6th seal defines the beginning of the tribulation and the 7th is a short period of silence before the actual events of chapter 8 begin
 
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dfw69

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Interesting way of how the Pre-Trib Rapture occurs (with the three horns blowing). I never seen it like that before. Anyways, thank you for sharing.

And God bless you.


...

It seemed logical that each time an event would take place a trumpet call would blow .. I saw 3 occurring events so.....yeah

Thanks man you too
 
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Update:

According to a recent Scripture verse I discovered, I now believe there is a good chance that the Judgment will take place on the Final New Earth after the city of New Jerusalem comes down from out of Heaven.

Before I did not have an idea of where the Judgment was going to take place. But according Luke 13:28, it gives an indication that the Judgment is on the New Earth because it says,

"There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out." (Luke 13:28).

Meaning, there is going to be a people who thought they were true believers in the Lord but they will be thrust out of God's Kingdom while they see Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the Kingdom. God's Kingdom in the end will be the New Earth.


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