Pre-Trib Only A Chronology of the End Times

[Douggg]

Well, saying 3 ½ years is the same thing as saying 42 months, 1,260 days, and a "time (1 year), times (2 year), a half."

42 months ÷ 12 months = 3.5 years (i.e. 3 ½ years).

Jason, in Revelation 11:2, it says 42 months, for the trampling of the gentiles. In the very next verse, it says 1260 days for the two witnesses. If those are the same as 3 1/2 years, why are they different expressions in the two verses?

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

 

[Douggg]

At the starting point of the breaking of the 1st seal or the start of the 7 Year Tribulation, 220 days will pass into the Tribulation, and the Jews will set up the Temple and begin the Temple sacrifices (Making it an unclean temple because the animal sacrifices are no longer acceptable to God). This temple will be taken over by the Anti-Christ and will continue to be unclean until the end of the Tribulation (Thereby fulfilling the 2,300 days of the Temple not being clean).

I agree with that on day 220 of the 2520 day, 7 year, timeline that the animal sacrifices will begin again.

I disagree with your rationale on those sacrifices making the temple unclean.

The 2300 days is a measure of time, which begins on day 220. Then later, near the end of the first half, what makes the temple unclean, the transgression of desolation will take place; followed by the abomination of desolation. The abomination of desolation is the image of the beast, that will be place in the temple, and will remain there until Jesus returns on day 2520, the last day of the seven years.

 

[Douggg]

First, I said I would give you an answer; And I just recently gave you one today. But badgering me beforehand when I was honestly busy and doing my own personal study with God's Word here is not nice (let alone a Christian trait), my friend. For patience is one of the fruits of the Spirit. In other words, next time, cut some people some slack in when they reply. Instead, pray about it and love others in return (and be open to being wrong).

Jason just because you are doing a "personal study" doesn't mean the rest of us are here waiting on pins and needles for your results to appear. When you make a post in this forum other people can make comments on what you write - at any time. As soon as any of your posts appear, everyone here can make comments immediately, and it is nothing wrong with doing so.

 

[Douggg]

Old Testament saints were born again. The words used instead of "born again" was "circumcision of the heart", instead.

Quick Review:
Circumcision of the Heart in the Old Testament.
(Which is obviously a spiritual renewal of one's heart):

Deuteronomy 10:16

"Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked."

Deuteronomy 30:6

"And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live."

Jeremiah 4:4

"Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings."

Ezekiel 44:9

"Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel."

Leviticus 26:41

"And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:."

Jeremiah 9:26

"Egypt, and Judah, and Edom, and the children of Ammon, and Moab, and all that are in the utmost corners, that dwell in the wilderness: for all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart."​

Having A New Heart in the Old Testament:

Ezekiel 11:19

"And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh"

Ezekiel 18:31

"Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?"

Ezekiel 36:26

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh."​

Circumcision of the Heart in the New Testament:

Acts 7:51

"Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye."​

Spiritual Circumcision in the New Testament:

Philippians 3:3

"For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh."

Romans 2:28-29

28 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

Colossians 2:11

"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ"​

In addition, Jesus said to Nicodemus that he should have known what he was talking about in regards to being "born again", too. Here is a video of the scene taken from the movie called "Gospel of John" which is based on the "Good News Translation."

Also, David said this in the Psalms, too.

"Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me." (Psalms 51:10-11).


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Jason, no one was saved prior to the resurrection of Jesus. If persons were saved before Jesus died on the cross, there would be no reason for Jesus to have suffered so very awfully and given his life, so that we might be saved. No-one in the old testament was saved ahead of Jesus's death and resurrection.

 

[Douggg]

Please take note that the dead RISE first in the Pre-Trib Rapture. If the saints were already in Heaven, then where exactly are they rising from? According to Scripture, the saints who are dead currently, are in Abraham's bosom. This is where they will be rising up from when the Rapture takes place.

Jason, when we accept Jesus as our Savior, our souls are redeemed. What Christians are looking forward to is the redemption of our bodies.

When each Christian dies, their soul goes to heaven to be with the Lord.

When the time comes for the rapture/resurrection of 1thessalonians4:13-18 takes place, the souls of those Christians in heaven, Jesus will bring with him. To reunite their souls with the resurrected redeemed bodies. The resurrected bodies will be incorruptible. The living at the time, will have their natural bodies translated; likewise into incorruptible bodies as well.

Joining together in the air, the two groups, both in their incorruptible bodies, go with Jesus back to heaven.

 

[Douggg]

As for the saint being blessed for having reached the 1,335th day in Daniel 12:12:

This is the Tribulation saint who actually was lucky enough to have not been martred for his faith and yet able to still be faithful to Jesus.
The 1,335th day obviously ends when the saints are taken up in the Second Rapture sometime shortly before the arrival of Christ's Second Coming. Now, the beginning of the 1,335th testing point of the saint is a little foggy. But it is reasonable to assume that day 1 out of 1,335 days can happen when the Anti-Christ is resurrected from the dead whereby he will deceive the whole world into following him. In fact, many in the faith will be deceived into backing this guy (No doubt because they do not think prophecy talks about a literal antichrist). Anyways, the believer will be under pressure to follow him by other believers in Christ (Who are misguided).

Why are you tying the 1335 days to the resurrection of the person you label as the Anti-Christ ? When the verses in Daniel 12 tie the 1290 days to the abomination of desolation "setup".

Daniel12:
11. And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Jason, what is the signal for the Jews living in Judea to start fleeing to the mountains?

Matthew 24:
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand :

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

 

[Douggg]

As for the saint being blessed for having reached the 1,335th day in Daniel 12:12:

This is the Tribulation saint who actually was lucky enough to have not been martred for his faith and yet able to still be faithful to Jesus.
The 1,335th day obviously ends when the saints are taken up in the Second Rapture sometime shortly before the arrival of Christ's Second Coming. Now, the beginning of the 1,335th testing point of the saint is a little foggy. But it is reasonable to assume that day 1 out of 1,335 days can happen when the Anti-Christ is resurrected from the dead whereby he will deceive the whole world into following him. In fact, many in the faith will be deceived into backing this guy (No doubt because they do not think prophecy talks about a literal antichrist). Anyways, the believer will be under pressure to follow him by other believers in Christ (Who are misguided).

Jason, there is no second rapture.

I will explain the 1335 days and 1290 days. Jesus returns on day 2520 last day of the 7 years. Subtract 1335 days and you get day 1185.

On day 1185 the abomination of desolation is setup to be worshiped. And the Jews start fleeing to the mountains.

From day 1185 count forward 1290 days and you get day 2475. On day 2475 the heavens part, the entire world will see Jesus, in Power and Great Glory. It sends fear into the hearts of the wicked. So, it takes the convincing by the beast, the false prophet, and Satan, for the kings of the earth to mobilize their armies and try to stop Jesus from returning and executing judgement of them.

From day 2475 to day 2520, the armies gather at Armageddon to make war on Jesus. On day 2520 Jesus descends to earth and destroys them.

The 1335 days and 1290 days are that simple,.....but veiled from understanding.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jason, in Revelation 11:2, it says 42 months, for the trampling of the gentiles. In the very next verse, it says 1260 days for the two witnesses. If those are the same as 3 1/2 years, why are they different expressions in the two verses?

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

I believe the expression is different so as to differentiate between the two events. In other words, both events happen for the same amount of time and yet both events happen at different times. The 1,260 days or 42 months of the two witnesses begins sometime before the middle of the Tribulation. Yet, the 1,260 days or 42 months of the Gentiles will trodden down the holy city from the midpoint of the Tribulation after the Anti-Christ takes it over.


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[Bible Highlighter]

I agree with that on day 220 of the 2520 day, 7 year, timeline that the animal sacrifices will begin again.

I disagree with your rationale on those sacrifices making the temple unclean.

The 2300 days is a measure of time, which begins on day 220. Then later, near the end of the first half, what makes the temple unclean, the transgression of desolation will take place; followed by the abomination of desolation. The abomination of desolation is the image of the beast, that will be place in the temple, and will remain there until Jesus returns on day 2520, the last day of the seven years.

Well, God no longer accepts animal sacrifices in a Temple anymore. The temple veil has been torn and Jesus is the only acceptable sacrifice for mankind now. For the animal sacrifices didn't even take away sin in the Old Testament. They were only a temporary covering for sin; For they had to keep revisiting the same past sins year after year. These animal sacrifices pointed to Jesus Christ. If God were to accept the animal sacrifices again, then it would completely undo what Jesus has done for us with His death, burial, resurrection, and ascension. For Christ's death began the New Covenant. There is no going back to the Old Covenant. You cannot mix old wine into new wine skins. The animal sacrifices by the Jews in a new temple are not acceptable to God anymore.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Jason just because you are doing a "personal study" doesn't mean the rest of us are here waiting on pins and needles for your results to appear. When you make a post in this forum other people can make comments on what you write - at any time. As soon as any of your posts appear, everyone here can make comments immediately, and it is nothing wrong with doing so.

I asked you to be patient and to wait. You didn't do so and you kept re-asking the question multiple times. This is called not being patient (Which is not a fruit of the Spirit).

"But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!" (Galatians 5:22-23 NLT).


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[Bible Highlighter]

Jason, no one was saved prior to the resurrection of Jesus. If persons were saved before Jesus died on the cross, there would be no reason for Jesus to have suffered so very awfully and given his life, so that we might be saved. No-one in the old testament was saved ahead of Jesus's death and resurrection.

I posted the verses. Your posting words of your own personal opinion does not undo the verses that I put forth. Please go back and prayerfully re-read the verses I provided instead of just dismissing them out of hand.

Thank you; And may God bless you.


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[Douggg]

Well, God no longer accepts animal sacrifices in a Temple anymore. The temple veil has been torn and Jesus is the only acceptable sacrifice for mankind now. For the animal sacrifices didn't even take away sin in the Old Testament. They were only a temporary covering for sin; For they had to keep revisiting the same past sins year after year. These animal sacrifices pointed to Jesus Christ. If God were to accept the animal sacrifices again, then it would completely undo what Jesus has done for us with His death, burial, resurrection, and ascension. For Christ's death began the New Covenant. There is no going back to the Old Covenant. You cannot mix old wine into new wine skins. The animal sacrifices by the Jews in a new temple are not acceptable to God anymore.
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The animal sacrifices are not an abomination though.

I asked you to be patient and to wait. You didn't do so and you kept re-asking the question multiple times. This is called not being patient (Which is not a fruit of the Spirit).


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Jason, the forum does not shut down waiting for you to post.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jason, when we accept Jesus as our Savior, our souls are redeemed. What Christians are looking forward to is the redemption of our bodies.

Well, this sounds like Eternal Security or Once Saved Always Saved. If this is what you believe, then I am not sure how you can read the Bible and ignore all the verses that refute such an unbiblical teaching. For if this is what you believe, then I beg you to re-examine the following verses by way of prayer.

Important Note: Oh, and I do not believe in Man Directed Works Salvationism, either. I believe in Relationship-ism with God (i.e. God directed works done thru a believer's life). In other words, if a person abides in Christ, then good fruit and not bad fruit will be evident in their life.

Anyways, here is a...

Long List of Verses Refuting OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved):

• Matthew 7:21-23 - Jesus only “knows” those who do Father God’s will; all others are practicing lawlessness.

• Matthew 10:33 - Whoever denies Jesus before men He will also deny before His Father in heaven.

• Matthew 12:31-32 - Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. This means verbally cursing or speaking bad about the Holy Spirit.

• Matthew 13:18-23 - 2 people types (no root, unfruitful) come to eternal life, and then return to the lost state.

• Matthew 18:21-35, Mark 11:25-26 - Forgive men’s sins against you, or God won’t forgive your sins against Him.

• Matthew 25:44-46 - Those who do not help even one needy soul will go into everlasting punishment.

• Mark 8:35-36 - Whoever desires to save his (old) life, or gain the whole world, will lose his soul.

• Mark 9:43-48 - Get rid of whatever causes you to sin; it will cause you to be cast into hell fire.

• Mark 13:13 - But he who endures with his faith to the end (of his life) shall be saved eternally (Also seeMatthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Colossians 1:22-23, 1 Timothy 4:16, Hebrews 10:35-39, Revelation 2:10)

• Luke 9:23-25 - Whoever does not deny himself for Jesus’ sake will be destroyed (eternal death).

• Luke 14:26-33 - Jesus warns prospective believers how difficult and costly it is to be His disciple… will they have enough to finish this life of placing Him above all else, bearing their crosses, etc.?

• Luke 18:9-14 - Jesus taught that the man who was more justified was the one who humbled himself and cried out to God for mercy before God vs. the man who did not do so.

• John 3:19, 20 - An important point about "The Condemnation" is that those who loved darkness hate the Light because they loved the pleasure of their own evil deeds, unless of course their deeds should be reproved (that is).

• John 12:25 - He who loves his life in this world will lose it (eternal life) later.

• John 15:1-6 - Christians who do not bear fruit (are not abiding in Jesus) are thrown into the fire.

• John 17:3 - Eternal life is actually “knowing” Father God and Jesus Christ. Do you really know them?

• Romans 1:29-32 - Anyone practicing such sins is deserving of death due to God’s wrath on unrighteousness.

• Romans 2:5-11 - Wrath is coming to those who are unrighteously self-seeking and do not obey the truth.

• Rom 6:15-23 - Be a slave of God and to righteousness for holiness, resulting in holiness and eternal life.

• Romans 8:1-8 - Anyone who is carnally-minded (is living according to the flesh) will die spiritually.

• Romans 8:12-13 - We are not debtors to the flesh; if we live according to the flesh, we will die.

• Romans 11:20-22 - Fear unbelief, that if you do not continue to have faith, you will be cut off like the OT Jews.

• 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Anyone practicing such sins is unrighteous, and will not inherit the kingdom of God.

• 1 Corinthians 15:2 - You are saved, if you hold fast to that word (the gospel) … unless you believed in vain.

• 2 Corinthians 7:10 - Godly sorrow over sin leads Christians to repent, which leads to salvation.

• 2 Corinthians 13:5 - Examine and test yourself to see if you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified.

• Galatians 5:1-4 - Christians are warned: those who later have attempted to be justified by law, … have been estranged from Christ and have fallen from grace.

• Galatians 5:19-21 - Anyone practicing such sins (the works of the flesh) will not inherit the kingdom of God.

• Galatians 5:24 - Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

• Galatians 6:7-8 - Don't be deceived: sowing to the flesh reaps corruption, sowing to the Spirit reaps eternal life.

• Ephesians 5:3-6 - Believers practicing such sins will not inherit God’s kingdom, but will incur the wrath of God.

• Ephesians 5:25-27 - Jesus gave Himself for a glorious Church which will be sanctified, holy, without blemish.

• Philippians 2:12-16 - Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, holding fast the word of life …
  … so that: (1) you may become blameless, and (2) Paul did not labor in vain concerning you.

• Philippians 3:7-14 - Paul presses on to attaining the goal of gaining Christ, knowing Him, and being found in Him.

• Colossians 1:21-29 - Jesus’ desires (and Paul labors to warn and teach) to present “holy and blameless” and “perfect in Christ Jesus” those who continue in faith, not moved away from the hope of the gospel.

• Colossians 3:5-6 - Believers practicing such sins beware: the wrath of God will come upon sons of disobedience.

• 1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith.

• 1 Timothy 5:11-15 - Some younger widows are condemned; they cast off their first faith and turned after Satan.

• 1 Timothy 6:3-4 - Paul says that if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Christ is proud knowing nothing.

• 1 Timothy 6:9-14 - Greed and love of money drowns men in destruction and perdition; Instead, pursue godliness and lay hold on eternal life (and keep this command without blame).

• 1 Timothy 6:17-19 - Commands for the rich (yes, Christians) to follow, so they may lay hold on eternal life.

• Titus 1:1-3 - Faith and knowledge of the truth lead to godliness, in the hope of eternal life.

• Hebrews 2:1-4 - Warning about drifting away: how shall we escape, if we drift and neglect so great a salvation?

• Hebrews 3:6 - We belong to Christ, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

• Hebrews 3:12-15 - Beware of an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, being hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, for we are only partakers of Christ if we hold steadfast to the end.

• Hebrews 3:17-19 - The OT Jews who sinned (did not obey) could not enter into God’s rest (the Promised Land).

• Hebrews 4:1 - Let us fear lest any of us come short of entering God’s rest (God’s promise of salvation).

• Hebrews 4:11 - Be diligent to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall according to the OT example of disobedience.

• Hebrews 6:4-8 - Those enlightened and partakers of the Holy Spirit who fall away will be rejected and burned.

• Hebrews 10:26-27 - If we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, expect God’s fiery judgment.

• Hebrews 10:29-31 - The Lord will judge His people. “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay”, says the Lord.

• Hebrews 10:35-39 - Endure in the faith, and do not be like those who draw back to perdition.

• Hebrews 12:14-15 - Pursue holiness (w/o which no one will see the Lord) lest anyone falls short of God’s grace.

• Hebrews 12:15-17 - Many believers become defiled, and finding no place for repentance, are rejected.

• James 1:12-16 - Love the Lord, endure temptation to sin; do not be deceived, sin results in spiritual death.

• 1 Peter 1:8-9 - Believing, you will receive the end of your (enduring) faith—the salvation of your souls.

• 2 Peter 1:10-11 - Be diligent to make your call & election sure, so you won’t stumble, but gain the kingdom.

• 2 Peter 2:1, 14 - The false prophets (i.e. believers) are those who have eyes full of adultery and cannot cease from sin.

• 2 Peter 2:20-22 - If Christians are overcome by worldly sins, they are worse off than they were before knowing the way of righteousness, they turned from the holy commandment delivered to them.

• 1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, God will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

• 1 John 2:3-5 - We are sure that we “know” God and are “in” Him, if we keep His commandments.

• 1 John 2:24-25 - If God’s word does not abide in us, the Father and the Son will not abide in us, nor we in Them, and we will not receive the promised eternal life.

• 1 John 3:15 - If you hate your brother, you’re like a murderer who has no eternal life abiding in him.

• Jude 1:4 NIV - There are those false believers who turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality

• Jude 1:20-21 - 3 things for Christians to do, while looking for God’s mercy unto eternal life.

• Revelation 2:10 - Be faithful until death and Jesus will give you the crown of (eternal) life (Also see Mark 13:13above).

• Revelation 2:11 - He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death (eternal death).

• Revelation 3:5 - He who overcomes will not have his name blotted out from the Book of Life.

• Revelation 14:9-11 - Those that worship the Beast and take his mark drink of the wine of the Wrath of God and will be thrown in the Lake of Fire.

• Revelation 21:8 - Anyone practicing such sins will go into the lake of fire, which is the second death.

• Revelation 21:27 - Anyone practicing such sins is not in the Book of Life, and will not enter the New Jerusalem.

• Revelation 22:14 - Anyone who does not do God’s commandments does not have the right to the tree of life.

• Revelation 22:15 - Anyone practicing such sins will be outside the gates of the New Jerusalem.

• Revelation 22:18 - If any man takes away from the prophecy of the book (i.e. the Scriptures), God will take away their name out of the Book of Life.

Source:
http://www.baptistboard.com/threads/your-handy-dandy-long-list-of-verses-against-osas.83484/

When each Christian dies, their soul goes to heaven to be with the Lord.

Please show me specifically which Bible verse says this exactly.
2 Corinthians 5:8 that says to be absent from the body and be present with the Lord does not say one is in Heaven.
God is also present in Abraham's Bosom or Paradise, too. For Jesus told the thief on the cross that He would be with Him there; And Jesus is the second person of the Godhead or the Trinity.

Even Elijah did not go to Heaven like you probably believe. Elijah went to the 1st heaven or the sky or atmosphere. Genesis 1:20 says birds had flown in the firmament of heaven (i.e. the sky). In fact, the narrative of Elijah parallels the story of Philip and the Ethiopian Enuch (Acts 8:26-40). Both narratives involve a chariot and both events involve someone being transported from one location on Earth to another place on Earth.

Believers will only go directly to heaven when they die after the Pre-Trib Rapture takes place. For the dead in Christ rise first and then they which are alive will be caught up in the air. Also, later on we learn in Revelation that within the Tribulation that the saints (Who were martyred) are up in Heaven under God's altar (When nothing like this is described as happening beforehand in Scripture).

When the time comes for the rapture/resurrection of 1thessalonians4:13-18 takes place, the souls of those Christians in heaven, Jesus will bring with him. To reunite their souls with the resurrected redeemed bodies. The resurrected bodies will be incorruptible. The living at the time, will have their natural bodies translated; likewise into incorruptible bodies as well.

Joining together in the air, the two groups, both in their incorruptible bodies, go with Jesus back to heaven.

Are these new bodies flesh and blood? Will believers or saints live in heaven with God for all eternity? Or do you think they will live with God on a New Earth one day after having a flesh and blood physical resurrection?


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[Douggg]

I believe the expression is different so as to differentiate between the two events. In other words, both events happen for the same amount of time and yet both events happen at different times. The 1,260 days or 42 months of the two witnesses begins sometime before the middle of the Tribulation. Yet, the 1,260 days or 42 months of the Gentiles will trodden down the holy city from the midpoint of the Tribulation after the Anti-Christ takes it over.
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No Jason, that is not the reason. The 42 months are little less than 1260 days.

I will explain.

The two witnesses testify for the first 1260 days of the seven years. At the exact midpoint, day 1260, the beast kills the two witnesses. 3 1/2 days later they ascend.... leaving 1256 1/2 days in the seven years... which the beast rules the earth in their absence, and resistance to him.

The 1256 1/2 days is a little less than 1260 days. So in Revelation 13:5, it says the beast rules the world for 42 months, which that expression is not 1260 days but a little less.... 1256 1/2 days.

During that 42 months, which is basically the second half, the beast's armies occupy Jerusalem, which is what Revelation 11:2 is referring to.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________
When people say 3 1/2 years, it is merely to facilitate discussion. It is not a bible term. And when referring to the 42 months and time, times, half times - people should be saying "nominally" 3 1/2 years.

Do you know what a 2x4 board actually measures? 3 1/2 inches x 1 1/2 inches. Not actually 2 inches x 4 inches.
The term 2x4 is a "nominal" term.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The animal sacrifices are not an abomination though.

Never said it was an abomination, though (like the Anti-Christ will commit).

Jason, the forum does not shut down waiting for you to post.

Do you understand what it means to have the fruit of the Spirit?
Do you believe having this fruit is important?


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[Bible Highlighter]

No Jason, that is not the reason. The 42 months are little less than 1260 days.

I will explain.

The two witnesses testify for the first 1260 days of the seven years. At the exact midpoint, day 1260, the beast kills the two witnesses. 3 1/2 days later they ascend.... leaving 1256 1/2 days in the seven years... which the beast rules the earth in their absence, and resistance to him.

The 1256 1/2 days is a little less than 1260 days. So in Revelation 13:5, it says the beast rules the world for 42 months, which that expression is not 1260 days but a little less.... 1256 1/2 days.

During that 42 months, which is basically the second half, the beast's armies occupy Jerusalem, which is what Revelation 11:2 is referring to.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________
When people say 3 1/2 years, it is merely to facilitate discussion. It is not a bible term. And when referring to the 42 months and time, times, half times - people should be saying "nominally" 3 1/2 years.

Do you know what a 2x4 board actually measures? 3 1/2 inches x 1 1/2 inches. Not actually 2 inches x 4 inches.
The term 2x4 is a "nominal" term.

No. There is no trickery with the math here.

Get out a calculator.

1,260 ÷ 42 = 30.

This means, 1, 260 days ÷ 42 months = 30 days (i.e. which is 1 Biblical month).


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[Douggg]

Well, this sounds like Eternal Security or Once Saved Always Saved.

Jason my statement had not to do that topic.

Jason, when we accept Jesus as our Savior, our souls are redeemed. What Christians are looking forward to is the redemption of our bodies.

Here is what Jesus said:

Luke 21:
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Please show me specifically which Bible verse says this exactly.
2 Corinthians 5:8 that says to be absent from the body and be present with the Lord does not say one is in Heaven.

It doesn't have to say, because it is so obvious. Jesus is in heaven.

Mark 16:
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

Are these new bodies flesh and blood? Will believers or saints live in heaven with God for all eternity? Or do you think they will live with God on a New Earth one day after having a flesh and blood physical resurrection?
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No, the new bodies are not flesh and blood.

The saved will live where-ever God chooses for them. There is not a flesh and blood resurrection. The substance of the new bodies is not stated; probably because beyond our present human comprehension.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Oh, and this article should help you to hopefully understand that 30 days is 1 month according to the Bible.

http://bibletime.com/theory/month


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[Douggg]

No. There is no trickery with the math here.

Get out a calculator.

1,260 ÷ 42 = 30.

This means, 1, 260 days ÷ 42 months = 30 days (i.e. which is 1 Biblical month).
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Jason, I am retired civil engineer. I understand conversion of units. What I am explaining to you is that in bible prophecy, there are reasons why the time expressions are different, and not exact equivalents of each other. Put your calculator away.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jason my statement had not to do that topic.

Replying to an off topic discussion or point once is not really off topic in my opinion. Going off topic would be continually talking about an off topic discussion for more than 2-3 posts. For did you not reply to how OT saints were not born again? In either case, I will not push you to answer it. It is your choice of course.

Luke 21:
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Jesus said this to his faithful disciples and He did not say this to unfaithful ones. Furthermore, this does not mean that even His own disciples could not be deceived into following another Christ, though. For He said this earlier.

"And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them." (Luke 21:8).

It doesn't have to say, because it is so obvious. Jesus is in heaven.

Mark 16:
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

But Jesus is God. Where God chooses to reside is a lot different than where God chooses to place man so as to reside (when man's physical body dies).

No, the new bodies are not flesh and blood.

Right. Because flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. I agree that the Rapture will be a spiritual resurrection and not a flesh and blood resurrection.

The saved will live where-ever God chooses for them. There is not a flesh and blood resurrection. The substance of the new bodies is not stated; probably because beyond our present human comprehension.

Well, the flesh and blood resurrection is certainly most stated in Scripture.

Just check out the verses here in my one post within my Chronology.

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/a-chronology-of-the-end-times.7968404/#post-70216501



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