Pre-Trib Only A Chronology of the End Times

[Grigorios Theologos]

HOLY BIBLE AND TRADITION

The Orthodox Church accepts the Bible and the Holy Tradition. The Apostolic Tradition is part of Holy Tradition. Protestants do not accept the Holy Tradition, nor the Apostolic Tradition. Protestants accept only that there is in the Bible, but the Bible was written by people of the early Church, which were the Apostolic and Holy Tradition.

The separation of the Holy Tradition in two pieces, Scripture and Tradition, stems from the reform of Protestantism, from the 16 ° century onwards almost praising the uniqueness of the Bible as the word of God source, forced the Roman Catholic Church in meeting Trent (1545-1563) to declare emphatically Scripture and Tradition as two equal and Isokyres sources of the content of faith.
He Apostle Paul considers teaching as fruit of delivery, which means that the tradition makes Letters, and not those delivery. Accordingly, the ecclesial community and tradition predate the registration of the Gospels, and of course the other New Testament books.

Holy Tradition the Church Fathers regard it as a good guide for the interpretation of the Holy Scriptures, and absolutely necessary for the understanding of the truths contained therein. As stated in the minutes of the Seventh Ecumenical Council: "Hey the Pasang tradition ecclesial documents or unwritten fails, even anathema."

The Holy Tradition can not be understood as a kind of observance of certain rules and practices, but as a living force, a lively faith, a message of salvation clearly defined and precise. The delivery is uninterrupted and inexhaustible and not just the past. The adherence to tradition does not exclude the development, which on the contrary live and grow. Nor means obstinacy in the past or even the apostolic past as a special time but fidelity to the apostolic message.
Lonely guardian of tradition is the Church, because tradition is the witness of the Holy Spirit who reveals and renews the message This testified to the Church. So it is not just a historical authority or the testimony of the past, but the experience of the community by the revelation of the Holy Spirit.
The final delivery is the ability of the witness and proclamation of the truths of faith. It is the Church itself the universal of existence, where the Holy Spirit resides. It is the body of the living Christ, one charismatic and not merely historical principle.
The Church is that which precedes the New Testament, as in the intellectual climate of the written and recognized, being and this fruit of the Holy Spirit, as the whole Tradition of the Church. So we can not be separated. Certainly the Bible is the primary source of Christian faith and teaching, which testifies to the teaching given by the Church under the constant inspiration of God. H But Scripture remains speechless when detached from the delivery.
The doctrines are part of the teaching of the Church, part of the tradition of the apostolicity of the message and the Scriptures. All of them live and mate in a harmonious unity since A is the source. The Word of God.

http://www.impantokratoros.gr/agia-grafh-iera-paradosh.el.aspx
http://www.imilias.gr/ti-simainei-iera-paradosi.html
http://users.sch.gr/aiasgr/Dogmatikh/Ekklhsia/Ierh_Paradosh/Ierh_Paradosh.htm
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...koi.el.aspx&gws_rd=cr&ei=YJ7uV5fYMcvqUvOPvogB

 

[vinsight4u]

nvm

 

[Douggg]

Actually I do know what I'm talking about:

Actually - you don't. The 70th week is not called "the tribulation" anywhere in the bible. There is no period of time called "the tribulation" anywhere in the bible.

tribulation is in the bible. But not "the tribulation" as a reference to the 70th week.

It can be translated tribulation or affliction, plural or singular, depending on the context. Most often used to refer to persecution but also used to speak of the Tribulation period and the Great Tribulation which is the last three and a half years. I don't know where you think you get your information but it isn't from the Scriptures and it sounds like your passing off opinion as dogma. Sometimes in theology it's helpful to assign a word like tribulation to a period which is the case here, it's just an expression really but hardly a major issue

It is a major issue.

Because tribulation involves every generation of Christians. The 70th week involves only ONE generation of Christians - which will not pass away until all the prophecies of the end times are fulfilled. The tribulation period, if a person uses that term in a biblical framework, is the 2000 years (so far) that Christians experience tribulation while in the world.

So it is wrong to call the 70th week, the tribulation period.

I get my information from the bible. The last week of Daniel 9 is in the bible, the 70th week is in the bible.

Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

[Douggg]

.

 

[keras]

Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

As Revelation 7 comes immediately after Rev 6 and the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, the great tribulation mentioned there, refers to the just occurred Sixth Seal and not to the Great Tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and & Bowls, to come later: during the last 3 1/2 years before the Return.
My Revised English Bible says 'they have passed through a great ordeal'.
Revelation 7:1-14 is all about what happens when the Lord's Christian people from every race, nation and language gather in the holy Land, soon after the whole area devastated by the wrath of the Lord and then quickly regenerated, they are assigned to one of the 12 tribes and 12,000 young people are selected from each of them. Confirmed by Isaiah 66:15-21
Then, in Revelation 8:1 is the Seventh Seal time gap of 'about 15-20 years'. About right for all that must happen before the Return.

Revelation 7:15-17 does prophesy about eternity, matching with Revelation 21:4

 

[Douggg]

As Revelation 7 comes immediately after Rev 6 and the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster,

It is not a "disaster" in the Sixth Seal, it is an act of God revealing Jesus to the whole world, removing the second heaven, the cosmos.

The structure of Revelation 6-20 is....built on the 70th week and the second half of the seventh week for the most part.

Revealing of the seven years the seals, seals 1-6 chapter 6

Revealing of the trumpet judgments, second half of the seven years chapter 7, chapter 8, chapter 9

Revealing of the seven years according to the little book chapter 10, chapter 11

Revealing of the seven years relevant to Israel chapter 12

Revealing of the second half of the seven years after the two witnesses are gone chapter 13, chapter 14

Revealing of the bowls of wrath during the second half of the seven years chapter 15, chapter 16

Revealing of the woman and the beast, and the mystery of the heads and horns chapter 17

Revealing of the judgement on Babylon the great chapter 18

Revealing of the Lord Jesus Christ's return to earth. chapter 19, chapter 20

 

[mark kennedy]

Actually - you don't. The 70th week is not called "the tribulation" anywhere in the bible. There is no period of time called "the tribulation" anywhere in the bible.

tribulation is in the bible. But not "the tribulation" as a reference to the 70th week.

Who cares, the man of sin is never called the antichrist in Revelations and the one in John's epistle is probably the false prophet. We still call him that. The Lords prayer is more accurately the disciples prayer but no one except ocd exegetical scholars. When you correct me for things not in error, here's a great idea, have a point.

It is a major issue.

Because tribulation involves every generation of Christians. The 70th week involves only ONE generation of Christians - which will not pass away until all the prophecies of the end times are fulfilled. The tribulation period, if a person uses that term in a biblical framework, is the 2000 years (so far) that Christians experience tribulation while in the world.

So it is wrong to call the 70th week, the tribulation period.

I get my information from the bible. The last week of Daniel 9 is in the bible, the 70th week is in the bible.

Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

What you have completely ignored is the word itself and how New Testament writers use in in their natural context. Its just you pontificating what terminology I can and cannot use and that's just your opinion.

 

[Douggg]

Then, in Revelation 8:1 is the Seventh Seal time gap of 'about 15-20 years'. About right for all that must happen before the Return.

Keras, I realize you are from Australia - but I must inform you the movie "Mad Max" (made in Australia) starring Mel Gibson in a post apocalyptic setting is just a movie - was just fiction - like "Star Wars".

 

[Douggg]

Who cares, the man of sin is never called the antichrist in Revelations and the one in John's epistle is probably the false prophet. We still call him that. The Lords prayer is more accurately the disciples prayer but no one except ocd exegetical scholars. When you correct me for things not in error, here's a great idea, have a point.

mark, here is what I wrote. I did not say anything about the Antichrist in my last post to you.

"Actually - you don't. The 70th week is not called "the tribulation" anywhere in the bible. There is no period of time called "the tribulation" anywhere in the bible.

tribulation is in the bible. But not "the tribulation" as a reference to the 70th week."

What you have completely ignored is the word itself and how New Testament writers use in in their natural context. Its just you pontificating what terminology I can and cannot use and that's just your opinion.

Here are the words of Jesus,

John 16:
33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Every generation of Christians have had tribulation. "The tribulation period" in the biblical framework of Jesus's words is from the time of the first Christians to Jesus's return. There is not a biblical referral to the 70th week as being "the tribulation period".

 

[mark kennedy]

mark, here is what I wrote. I did not say anything about the Antichrist in my last post to you.

"Actually - you don't. The 70th week is not called "the tribulation" anywhere in the bible. There is no period of time called "the tribulation" anywhere in the bible.

tribulation is in the bible. But not "the tribulation" as a reference to the 70th week."


Here are the words of Jesus,

John 16:
33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Every generation of Christians have had tribulation. "The tribulation period" in the biblical framework of Jesus's words is from the time of the first Christians to Jesus's return. There is not a biblical referral to the 70th week as being "the tribulation period".

The example of the term antichrist is a for instance. Now I have heard, responded to and dismissed your collection to my use of the term tribulation. Lets move on.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Reminds me of where I was at 45 years ago..... No, the article is flawed and so is the basis of some of your thinking.

The confirming of the covenant for 7 years in Daniel 9:27 is not a peace treaty. The prince who shall come, the little horn, following Gog/Magog will be perceived by the Jews as their messiah, and anointed King of Israel - that's what makes the person "the Antichrist".

The person playing the role, coming in his own name, will oversee the reading of the law of Moses, another name for the Mt. Sinai covenant, since Moses delivered the law to the children of Israel. In Deuteronomy 31:9-13, Moses made a requirement that all future generations have the law read to them, the nation of Israel - confirming that God gave them the land forever- and that He would be their God and they His people. The commemorative reading is to be done on a 7 years cycle. That's why it says "for 7" years.

No need to be insulting. Again, seals 4-7 are clearly marked by other tribulation events which line up with the last three and a half year period according to Scripture.

When I place my commentaries in the posts, I will requote them here for you (so you can see where I am coming from). In the mean time, I am going to finish the chronology with Scripture first.

May God bless you.

...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Update:

So far, I added Scripture for the Millennium; And added how Satan was bound in the previous post or event.


...

 

[Douggg]

No need to be insulting. Again, seals 4-7 are clearly marked by other tribulation events which line up with the last three and a half year period according to Scripture.

When I place my commentaries in the posts, I will requote them here for you (so you can see where I am coming from). In the mean time, I am going to finish the chronology with Scripture first.

I don't see what your comments have to do with the confirming the covenant for 7 years - is not a peace treaty.

It will be the reading of the law of Moses, to the nation of Israel, from the temple mount, on the feast of tabernacles.
The spring feasts of the Mt. Sinai covenant coincided with Jesus's first coming. There is a theory that the fall feasts will coincide with his second coming.

Deuteronomy 31:
9 And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel.

10 And Moses commanded them, saying, At the end of every seven years, in the solemnity of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles,

11 When all Israel is come to appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing.

12 Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God, and observe to do all the words of this law:

13 And that their children, which have not known any thing, may hear, and learn to fear the LORD your God, as long as ye live in the land whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.

 

[Douggg]

No need to be insulting. Again, seals 4-7 are clearly marked by other tribulation events which line up with the last three and a half year period according to Scripture.

When I place my commentaries in the posts, I will requote them here for you (so you can see where I am coming from). In the mean time, I am going to finish the chronology with Scripture first.

May God bless you.

...

Jason, if you are going to do a chronology. State the time frames found in the scripture first. There is no term 3 1/2 years in the text of the bible. Here are the timeframes.

1260 days
42 months
time, times, half times
the 70th week, 7 years
the 3 1/2 days
the 2300 days
the 1290 days
the 1335 day

Everything has to fit within the 70th week.

 

[Douggg]

The example of the term antichrist is a for instance. Now I have heard, responded to and dismissed your collection to my use of the term tribulation. Lets move on.

Well, you are probably misusing the term (the) Antichrist as well. So none of it matters to you, whether to use the correct terms, and hence the correct understanding, as long as you get your way - I understand - that's what I hear.

 

[mark kennedy]

Well, you are probably misusing the term (the) Antichrist as well. So none of it matters to you, whether to use the correct terms, and hence the correct understanding, as long as you get your way - I understand - that's what I hear.

What doesn't matter to me is that you disapprove. Your not telling me anything substantive your trolling the thread. It invariably degenerates into an ad hominem attack but right now you are begging the question of proof on your hands. There's one in every thread.

 

[mark kennedy]

Update:

So far, I added Scripture for the Millennium; And added how Satan was bound in the previous post or event.


...

I would check with the moderators. The might be able to turn it into an information archives. The Creation Evolution forum had one.

 

[keras]

It is not a "disaster" in the Sixth Seal, it is an act of God revealing Jesus to the whole world, removing the second heaven, the cosmos.

So; violent earthquakes, shifting every mountain from it's place, wouldn't be a disaster? More Douggish nonsense.
Jesus isn't actually seen at the Sixth Seal, confirmed by the many other parallel prophesies that describe the Lord's Day of wrath. Psalms 11:4-6 +
The sky rolled up like a scroll, doesn't remove the second heaven like you think, it happens when the mass ejected from an explosion of the sun strikes our atmosphere, temporarily pushing it aside. Isaiah 34:4 also tells of this, in the context of a worldwide judgement/punishment.

Keras, I realize you are from Australia - but I must inform you the movie "Mad Max" (made in Australia) starring Mel Gibson in a post apocalyptic setting is just a movie - was just fiction - like "Star Wars".

Please do NOT insult me, a New Zealander!
It is you that seems to love fiction; with your notions of an anytime rapture, an Anti-Christ king of Israel, the Seals being just previews and the ECC being the 10 nation OWG.
But I have shown you the truth of God's plans for our future, for a long time now and you just ignore it. Like your reply to my #25, where for the zillionth time you just put up your notion [quite unbiblical] of Revelation, rather than addressing the points I posted.
So the end times will be a surprise to you, as what will happen will be to all who have believed lies.

 

[Douggg]

So; violent earthquakes, shifting every mountain from it's place, wouldn't be a disaster? More Douggish nonsense.
Jesus isn't actually seen at the Sixth Seal, confirmed by the many other parallel prophesies that describe the Lord's Day of wrath. Psalms 11:4-6 +
The sky rolled up like a scroll, doesn't remove the second heaven like you think, it happens when the mass ejected from an explosion of the sun strikes our atmosphere, temporarily pushing it aside. Isaiah 34:4 also tells of this, in the context of a worldwide judgement/punishment.

Anything that takes place with our sun does not move the stars of the universe out of place. And doesn't reveal Jesus before the throne of God.

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Please do NOT insult me, a New Zealander!

okay, my mistake.

 

[Douggg]

What doesn't matter to me is that you disapprove. Your not telling me anything substantive your trolling the thread. It invariably degenerates into an ad hominem attack but right now you are begging the question of proof on your hands. There's one in every thread.

What? I don't even know what you are talking about. I have given you scriptures of that tribulation does not equate to the "70th week". And you have not given anything of "the tribulation" found in the bible referring to the 70th week, 7 years.

I put you on my ignore list. So you won't get any comments to your posts from me.